Bible Discussion Thread

In the creation where man is created on day six and told to go forth and multiply. Animals were created also in the 6 days.

Then on day seven, he is created again, stuck in a garden, given a name. Then woman is created from his rib. Then the animals are created again and put before Adam to name. The first creation of man and animal it says they were *Created*. Second creation of man and animal it says that God *Formed* them.

The first creation was not stuck in a garden and was told to go forth a multiply.

The second formed creation was not told to go forth and multiply and was stuck in a garden. In fact when they sinned, Eve was cursed with the pain of child bearing.

I've been in the creation ministry for over 25 years and this idea of a dual creation has always been in the back of my mind. Never pushed it or preached it. But pondered it many times. Because a dual creation of man answers where Cain God his wife. And where the Gentiles came from.

Created = God creating like He did everything else.

Formed = a more personal creation that was to be eternal aka why they were stuck in the garden where God would visit, yet the first creation God did not visit aka walk with them because they were not eternal.

The formed eternal creation sinned, and that stopped them from being eternal and they had to be removed from the garden where eternity existed until they sinned. Cast out where the first creation was aka outside the garden. And where Cain found his wife.

Now I'm not saying this is right teaching, but creating the first man and the second differently (in wording), could that be God relaying a dual creation? For why else word it differently, put the 2 creations in different areas. Then leave the question of where did Cain get his wife? Now why a dual creation? I'm not sure, maybe something to do with eternity and non-eternity. But I do see this also going along with other parts of the Bible as well.

Hi Isaac, I agree with your first comment on God's sixth day of creation. However, from there when you wrote "Then on day seven, he (man) is created again", I don't see it that way. Genesis chapter 2 speaks of God resting from all His Work & He blessed & sanctified that seventh day of rest. So there was no further creating, as God had accomplished all His planned creative Work on the six days.

Genesis 2:4 onwards then describes what God had done & how He made man (in Genesis 1:1-31). We're not told how He made man in chapter 1, only that He created man & woman. Then chapter 2 details how this was done, introducing this man Adam (made from dust) & Eve, who was 'take out of man', Adam. This is the way I understand these two chapters.

I know there are other interpretations of this, similar to what you shared. However, I don't see any reference to a second creation of mankind. If this were so, we would have to ask, 'what happened to that other creation, as there is no mention of them?' And if there was another creation, did they also sin as Adam & Eve did, or were they sinless? Could there be some sinless tribe or nation also living among us? It would be strange that the Bible would be very quiet on this other creation. Does Jesus' sacrifice also include them - but then again, they would never know about it, & the apostles were never alerted to this 'fact' by the Lord? Or, maybe when Cain left for the land of Nod, his sinful nature (from his parents) also infected this other creation. The possibilities are endless, but without scriptural support. It's best to stick with what is revealed to us in the Word & just admit ignorance where what we seek is not revealed.

Yes the 7th day is a day of rest. 2 things.

1) The 7th day did not end like the other 6 days. Not sure what that means though but someone else pointed that out to me so it might have some bearing on this,

2) Jesus healed someone on the sabbath, and when the priests got after him for that, what did He say?

So you can work on the sabbath but only if you have to. The Bible never says where day 7 ended so the second creation of man and animals might have been on day 8. Not this is not a argument per say, it's a iron sharpens iron type of thing, And i want to make sure every argument is considered, proven wrong, and move on. Without denominational glasses on. Looking at the Bible with fresh eyes to seek the truth in this by first trying to prove it right.

Why try to prove it right first? Because if it's wrong, you won't be able to prove it right using God's word at all. And then by default you prove it wrong. God cannot speak to us on correction if we already make up our minds on truth and lies. So my goal here is not to prove it right, but to test it to make sure before I discard it.

If we assume because we have been taught something else, then we are not listening to God's Word speak to use through the Holy Spirit. I'm hoping it's not right because of the uphill battle I'll have in several arguments with other creationists. But if it is right, then I accept that and fight that battle.

I am YEC aka believe literal creation.

I'm Holy Spirit educated. He's our Teacher and I prefer to sit at His feet.

I'm going to make this real short. All sciences show something was on earth before Adam. It's been proven there were earth wide "kill" events, like when dinosaurs died.

Those things happened before the first 2 words were spoken in Genesis: IN BEGINNING.

What had existed, existed OUTSIDE of Time. God first created TIME. The clock started ticking.

Only the Godhead existed. Also as we read of the battle between God and the rebellion of evil, in the Book of Revelation; also in Isaiah and other places (word search, Lucifer). There were CREATED beings, i.e. angels and demonic beings.

Genesis actually can skip forward a few chapters, and go backwards to where the skip started. It works better if you take NOTES on each event.

You MUST have a reference Bible with CENTER OF EACH PAGE references. It will send you forward or backward, to other RELEVANT information.

Since John 1:1 tells us that Jesus is the WORD, and He is God. A member of the Godhead: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

The things that existed before God created time, are not mentioned in the Bible. There was never a Book with chapters included in the Bible about what was in the universe before Gen. 1:1

Why?? Because this Bible is a story about ONE person. The Son of God. It's his story. He is the Savior of the world. No other person can own that Title. Name ABOVE all other names.

If you've read of "Old Earth Theories", then you are reading false religion and being contaminated. Do a google on that. Those are theories!! Not one of them is WRITTEN in the Bible.

Time started when God spoke, IN BEGINNING.

You need to make your mind up WHO you are following. JESUS or...something NOT in the Bible.

Note: Satan and all his followers are destined for Hell and the Lake of Fire.

Ask the Holy Spirit to teach you. To confirm TRUTH. Jesus is the WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE.

Choose.

Gap theory is easy to disprove once you understand what Form actually means.

God created 3 different ways:

1) Spoken word creation aka speaking something from nothing.

2) Bring forth creation aka commanding what has already been created to bring forth more life.

3) Formed creation aka Man was formed by the hand of God.

So when the Bible says: The earth was without form, it's speaking of what God would Form (man) with His bare hands. And that until Man was Formed, the creation of the earth was void aka empty. So God was not relaying the physical condition of the earth. But the reason the earth was being created aka for man to live upon. Besides, why would God create anything without physical form?

Old earth creation does not have a timeline of it's own. it uses the evolution timeline which means it's a branch off of the evolution idea. Proof? Remove the evolution timeline, and using the Bible only, come up with a timeline that's would be considered Biblical only. It cannot be done.

Moses was the most educated writer of the Bible. He was to be Pharaoh, so he had a Pharaoh's education. In fact his education in math exceeded all the other writers of the Bible as he illustrated when he wrote this.

Genesis 24:60 KJV

And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.

He showed not only could he express 1 million, but also 1 billion. What is 1,000 times 1 million? It's 1 billion. So if millions and billions of years were needed to be expressed during creation, it would have been. But that not what it said. Instead the 4 parts of a 24 hour day was expressed. And even on day 4 when solar time keeping was created, the expression of a 24 hour day stayed the same. Which means time stayed the same from 24 hour day to 24 hour day.

The event that took out the dinosaurs was the Worldwide flood. A flood has a pecking order of how it would lay out the fossils. The pecking order is:

1) Because aquatic life already live in the water, they would not be drowning during the flood, right? So they would get buried in the sediments in the order they lived top to bottom. That order is:

a) Bottom dwellers first.

b) Mid dwellers second.

c) Top dwellers last.

And that's the order we see in the Bottom half of the fossil record. Google the fossil record image and see for yourself.

2) Because aquatic life and land life did not live together, there should be a visible separation point in the fossil record. And there is, right in the middle. Where the aquatic life fades and land life appears and continues. The problem with aquatic life fading and land life increasing is that there is 230,000 known aquatic life species. And what's left in the last time era is what's available to evolve in the next time era. The problem is that in the time era before what is now, there were hardly any aquatic life to speak of. Almost nothing to 230,000 species?

3) But there is not enough water on the earth to flood it to the highest mountain. Yes their is. Recently they found that the upper mantle of the earth contains water. oceans worth of water. Go to youtube and search: Oceans inside the earth. They also found that water has a 4th type of existence, instead of just 3 (solid liquid gas). And that forth phase of existence only exists in the upper mantle. I'd leave links but that's not allowed.

4) And because the earth does not have a solid core, that much water being on the surface would make the earth shrink making the pangea a real event before the flood.

5) The earth was flooded twice? Dry land did not appear until day 3 in creation: Genesis 1:And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

1) Many people think that in order for eternity to be eternal. time cannot exist.

Revelation 8:1

King James Version

8 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

You cannot measure time where time does not exist. What makes eternity eternal is that the process of aging no longer exists. Time passes, aging does not increase.

2) What about 2 Peter 3:8?

2 Peter 3:8

King James Version

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The key phrase here is with the Lord. This is a time comparison between how time passes here, and how time passes in Heaven. If you turn this into a equation aka fraction. It would look like this: 1 day/1 thousand years. To make this easier to understand we need to make this a year to year comparison. So to make a day one year we would have to times it times 365. To keep the value of the fraction we also must times 1,000 years times 365. And this is what we get: 1 year/365.000 years. So when 1 years passes here, 365,000 years pass in Heaven.

What does that mean? Heaven is 365,000 times faster than we are. What does this answer?

a) Why we cannot see God or the angels. Because how do you see something 365,000 times faster then you?

b) How God can know all see all. At that speed He can see everything.

c) How the angels can be there in the nick of time to save you. etc...

3) So why is it that some things date old and young? God aged things 2 different ways:

a) By the passage of time.

b) By His word aka no passage of time required.

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old,

So in other words, God can speak age into His creation when He creates it. All life was created with age already added as to the reason they were told to go forth and multiply.... Running out of room, so I address dinosaurs next reply.

Hi Isaac, I understand wanting to be confident in your heart. After the flood Noah and his three sons are descendants of Adam so all on earth today are from Adam so Gentiles are descendants of Adam. Like Chris said there is not a lot in scripture to support if there were people before Adam, because there was 1656 years from Adam until the flood and there is so much that is not covered.

The main view is Adam and Eve are the male and female on day six. Comparing day six with chapter 2. Does chapter 2 match the male and female in day six? Is it different enough that can show these are two different events?



Does it change or alter God's plan of salvation? Either way Adam "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven". "The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. We know Jesus was not the second man on earth so, can we say Adam was the first man? Was Adams purpose to start mankind or the start of the plan to undue the works of Satan (devil)?

Just a few things you can study.

Day 5 all out of the water, flying creatures, fowls.

Chap. 2 out of the ground every fowl.

Day 6 all beasts of the earth Strong's #776. erets Definition earth, land, countries

Chap. 2 beasts of the field ( ha--eh). Strongs #7704 meaning; field, land, agriculture.

Day 6 the male and female was created last to rule over what God had created.

Chap 2 God formed man out of the dust, put him in the garden and gave the command. God for first time said it was not good for him to be alone. God said He would make a help meet. God then formed out of the dust beasts and fowl of the field for Adam to name. Then God because a help meet was not found took a rib from Adam and made Eve.

As far as Cain, Adam and Eves family were all in the presence of God in the land of Eden, Cain was the first to be driven out of Eden and from the presence of God. Cain's wife?



God bless, Ron

Question Ron: If the gentiles were of the same creation, then why did the gentiles have to be included into the tree of life with the Jewish peoples? They should have already been part of that.

Isaac, I am not a believer of the gap theory or a world before this one and it was wiped out and God started over. I believe our world started as scripture says. First the Gentiles is not a race of people and has nothing to do with creation. When we read the word Gentile, the meaning non-Israelite or non-Jew that has been taught is what we understand. The term is used by English translators for the Hebrew (goy) and (nokhri) in the Hebrew and the Greek word (thn) in the New Testament. The term "gentiles" is derived from Latin word gentilis, which means one who is not a Roman citizen. It was used for contextual translation, and not an original Hebrew or Greek word from the Bible.

The original words goy and ethnos refer to "peoples" or "nations" and are applied to both Israelites and non-Israelites in the Bible. The word Gentile has taken on a different meaning and it sometimes complicates the understanding, same as the word Jew. The main thing, when we see the word Gentile it does not automatically mean non-Jew as it stands for today, and now, anyone of Judaism is a Jew which also is not reliable. In most cases, it means nations, even the nation of Israel. If you read the word Gentile it is saying people or nation singular or plural.

Adam was not Jewish, Abraham, was not Jewish, the word Jew started in Babylon captivity as an abbreviated slang term for Judahite, a resident of the southern kingdom of Judah. Adam was the start of the genealogy to Jesus. The tree of life was in the garden of Eden, when they sinned, they were taken out of the garden and Cherubims, and a flaming sword barded the way back in so they would not eat of it and live forever. Scripture does not say they lost their immortality it says the tree was barred from them so they would not have immortality.

God bless, Ron

Hello Isaac,

Just for a little reply. And I have no problem with your questions as questions are good. As your motive is to be solid and sharpen your sword.

Though it does not say where the seventh day ended, as the other days, with a evening and morning. It does concur that God ended His work on the seventh. Blessing that day and resting from all His work in creation. Genesis 2:2-3.

As said I see it Genesis 2:4 and further are just going over details of His creation work. As it goes over heaven, earth, plants, then to the details of Adam and Eve and naming all the animals etc.

I myself don't see an 8th day.

God Bless you Isaac.

I only said 8th day when it was the first day if the new week. Many think that Genesis 2 is just a recount, in more detail, of Genesis 1. But what if it's not, and we have been translated it wrong the whole time?

God cast Adam and Eve out of the garden when they sinned. Just like Lucifer was cast out of Heaven when he sinned. Why? Because sin cannot exist when eternity exists unless you are in Hell. But, why were not the animals God Formed also removed from the garden? And why was a angel placed at the entrance to the garden, and why did not Adam and Eve has access to the rest of the earth before sin? Only after sin?

Why did God only walk with Adam and Eve in the Garden but not outside it?

So why repeat what happened in Genesis 1 in Genesis 2 if the creation was the same as Genesis 1? Unless it was a separate creation?

Isaac,

It seems you are putting a lot of time trying to explain things that happened thousands of years ago and you nor anyone else knows the exact answer.

I know there are many different theories of what really happened in the garden of Eden, other creations, and things that you are bringing up.

Like someone else stated. What does this have to do with our Lord Jesus Christ and living for the Will of our Father in Heaven? I believe we should focus more on our lives in how we can draw closer to the Lord in love. Stay focused on the Word and live by it. Do what makes God happy and you will receive Blessings from Him.

I'm really not that interested in trying to discern how this, or that, happened or why. One day when we are with the Lord if you have any questions they will be answered in truth.

Please don't take my post harshly. Though the details of what really happened thousands of years ago, about creation, does not interest me much at all. I very much enjoy seeing actual remains of things like Noah's ark, the remains of Sodom and Gomorrah, artifacts of the Red Sea crossing etc.

I do my best to focus on the Lord and my relationship with Him and our Father in Heaven. Amen.

God Bless.

What does this have to do with Jesus? 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I see I pick the wrong place for this discussion. Because you guys see you might be wrong about this, you change the premise to: What does this have to do with Jesus? So now it's no longer a iron sharpens iron discussion. Sorry I wasted your time and mine.

Admin, you can block me now. I do not wish to get anymore e-mails on this.

Isaac,

This will be my last post to you as I did not wish to make you angry or drive you away. You have just as much right to post here as I do. As I stated I did not want you to take my post harshly as it seems you did. I am sorry you took it that way.

You stating "you guys" but please only keep this between you and me. Maybe you are perceiving me and Carleton as "you guys" because we both asked you a similar question?

Like I stated truthfully. I am not one to sharpen your iron on this topic of Genesis. I stated where my focus is.

Please feel free to keep posting and maybe someone else can help you.

Again I apologize.

God Bless.

Only one reason Issac, as mentioned before, the discussion is time consuming, so the value for me must start at the Cross. I remain interested in your thoughts in Genesis 1 and 2, if I believe that finally the goal is the increase of our faith and relationship at the Cross. I am sure that no one means offense otherwise. I am sorry for my part in your offense.

Dear Isaac, Jumping ahead a little, what is your point regarding the restoration of man by faith and repentance in Jesus Christ? For me, all answers will be found in Him.