Bible Discussion Thread

I am confused. Was reading Roman's 13. It starts with let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. And it goes on to for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God and so on......it just doesn't make sense to me. God is a loving God, so how can He have appointed Hitler? And now with our new party who is for abortion. I just cried because it really hurt my heart. I must be missing something. Hope you can help me. Have a blessed day.

Sarah,

If I might add some more, Romans Chapter 13 gives us the institution of government, the doctrine of submission, and then what our participation should be. Romans 13:1 says, Let every soul be subject, or submitted unto the higher powers. That's a command. Be in submission to the higher powers, or authorities in government especially. It goes on to say, for there is no authority but of God: and the authority that be are ordained by God.

God originated authority. He originated organization in the sense of an orderly leadership and relationship amongst people. Being in submission means to be in an orderly arrangement, or to be lined up. In the New Testament, when it teaches on submission, it means to line up in an orderly arrangement, and Christ is the head with whom everybody lines up. Everybody is called to be in submission to Christ.

But being in submission whether to the government or anyone else does not mean to do everything that we are told to do. According to the bible, any time someone approaches us to do something that is a sin or illegal, the answer is no! That's not disobedience.

A good example would be in Acts 5:29 when the leadership came to the disciples and said "You cannot preach anymore in this man's name." They even locked them up. But an angel came and let them out and they went back into the temple and started preaching again. So they came and rounded them up again and they said "Didn't we tell you that you couldn't preach in this man's name?" Then Peter and the other apostles said, "We ought to obey God rather than men."

That doesn't sound too submissive to me but it is because they were in perfect submission to God. So we always have to line up with Christ. We do not submit to our government when they are not being lined up with the things of the Lord.

Hello, I think you're talking about Romans 13:1-2.

In your comment you said God "appointed" them, but that's not what this says. It says the powers are ordained. God allows power and also allows power to collapse. Plenty of civilizations have thrived and collapsed. God allows things but is ultimately in control. For example, He allowed the world to be wicked and evil up to a point where he wiped it out with a flood, Sodom and Gomorrah He tolerated up to a point then destroyed the city. Fall of Rome. Maybe the fall of the United States will be added to the list. God can discipline too and let people self-destruct. The souls of the aborted babies cry out to God and He hears them. Ultimately no sin will go unpunished. Everyone will account for their actions before Him and He will judge fairly. Ultimately the souls of the innocent babies will be in paradise. Hitler will obviously be judged fairly by God and there's no question in my mind where he's going.

Sarah, may the Spirit grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made everything beautiful in his time: also he has set the world in their heart, that no man can find out the WORK THAT GOD MAKETH from the beginning to the end.

Isaiah 28:21 .....that he may do HIS WORK, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

The tree of (the) knowledge of GOOD and EVIL. One tree, two fruits within themselves. You can't eat one without eating the other.

Children are born without knowledge; the FATHER tells them DO NOT touch the stove, it's hot. HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE, they don't know what hot is. So the FATHER has to teach knowledge through the experience of extremes found in the world. GOOD AND EVIL; but also HOPE.

Romans 8:20 For the creature (creation) was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in HOPE.

In God's strange act he is choosing a FEW to become Sons of God; that they with him will deliver the rest of creation from corruption.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature waiteth for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD.

Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself shall ALSO BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Hi Sarah,

I'm sorry to hear reading that made you cry. For just a short reply. I don't believe "God appointed Hitler" nor any other evil person in history. Satan is real and is the evil force in this world against God and Christ.

Though nothing can happen unless God allows it. We can not even try to comprehend His wisdom and thoughts. Everything happens for a reason weather good or bad. Why we must put our full trust in Him surpassing our own understanding of things that happen.

Also as we are told to test the spirits as in 1 John 4. Read the whole chapter. The Lord told us a tree is known by it's fruit. Matthew 7:15-20. If the rulers are of evil things and are producing ungodly, corrupt, fruit you know they are not with the Lord. Yet hopefully as we must pray without ceasing with a pure heart.

God Bless. Peace be with you.

Hello Sarah, Only Jesus that came to the world was true and faithful, but God honors order and order supports the poor which will aways be.

John 15:19

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 3:17

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

I know of a minister that was convicted of sin and turned his life in repentance to Jesus as he was jumping on a bed with his younger brothers and sisters upstairs in an old house. From below his mother called to the children while she labored to stop jumping on the bed. Well of course it was too much fun and they continued. At least one more warning came from below went unheeded. Finally the mother started up the stairs and this boy heard her coming and quickly got off the bed and sat in a nearby chair when she arrived while the others were jumping still. All on the bed were punished. Time continued for a while until this boy felt the call of God and God called him to repentance in this disobedience and hidden deceit. He answered that call!

We should obey those that have rule over us as it allows us to live as the quiet of the land as Christian witnesses to the Truth's of God.

As you can see this boy did not have any association with abortion, but his testimony would be if he had not repented, he was destined to hell.

It should be a comfort that any innocent soul lost by somebody's else sin is saved by the blood of Jesus at Calvary. In the time of persecution girls as young as 12 were buried alive vertically given many chances to recant infant baptism instead of counting their born again experience as their drawing to their glory in the Cross.

God bless our meditations.

Just a question, if we continue to help those that are so call in need, are we hindering them to call upon the Lord in times of trouble, in times of need? At what point do we stop helping them out of the pit they have dug for themselves (not all) so they can call upon Him instead of man? When they choose not to even pray for help.

Hello Dot, Paul tries to tell us that we remain in need so that grace may abound, we do not want to sin, but we must remember that we came to Jesus as a beggar by the gate with open sores on our face that dogs would lick and He accepted us. How can we not remember others at any cost now that we are rich in Christ Jesus?

For our meditation by His love.

Dot , when we help some one in need we are not only helping them ,we are also helping our selves and showing some one who is a potential Christian the love of God towards them . I personally would never give cash to some one if i knew they were a drug addict ,anything else yes ,food clothing etc but not cash but thats just me . We receive everything and are entitled to nothing ,nothing belongs to us ,we dont belong to this world and this world doesnt belong to us ,we are waiting for the world to come ,in which no one will have more or less than they need ,just like the manna in the wilderness ,every one had enough .