Bible Discussion Thread

REPENTANCE NOT NEEDED FOR SALVATION - ONLY BELIEVING

Dear readers, I have heard lots of sermons that teach that one must repent to be saved. I believe this is a false doctrine because NOWHERE in the whole Bible does anyone teach it. All the Scriptures teach is just believing:-

But what does the Bible actually teach about salvation and about repentance? Here are a few verses:-

John 1:7

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 6:29

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 15:11

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 3:22

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

REPENTANCE IS: TO turn from what you were doing wrong to doing it right. Its actually more of a turning. And repentance does not necessarily mean "repent from your sins". In fact in the Scriptures, God repented more than anyone else. Does that mean He is a sinner? NO!! He turned from doing what He wanted to do at first! e.g

Jonah 3:9-10

Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

2 THINGS:-

1. Believing without repentance in the Gospel of John

2. Repentance can be a bad thing - Exodus

GOSPEL OF JOHN

The gospel of John, as it ends tells the reader that he is writing the book for people to get saved/ believe. He says in John 20:30-31 ---> And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But THESE ARE WRITTEN, THAT YE MIGHT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, AND THAT BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE THROUGH HIS NAME. It's the ONLY book that brings people to salvation, because most books in the NT are written to the church. MOST. But Gospel of John is written so that people might believe..

YET,

Nowhere in the whole gospel of John do you encounter the word "repent" . If its a book that claims to get people saved, you should at least get word repent even one time but its not there, but guess what! the word "believe" appears in the gospel of John 46 times(if my counting is correct). Look at some verses:-

John 1:7 - The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 6:69 - And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

John 11:27 - She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

REPENTANCE IN EXODUS

Exodus 13:17 - And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:

Here repentance is a bad thing because they would "turn" back to Egypt when they see war..

Chacha Dean - In this life we can get by leaving things off/out sometimes. But when we are talking about the WORD we can't take from or add to, to do so will get our part removed. When my wife makes bread she uses more than flour, she adds salt, baking powder, milk, eggs. Don't let tradition cause us to leave out all the word.



Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Hi D.W.LL.

It's good to use Scripture just they way it is. Nobody is adding or removing (except if you are using other Biblical versions) but Scripture has to be understood spiritually and in context.

1 Corinthians 2:14 - "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Hi Chacha,

Salvation comes before sanctification.

In that regard I believe you're right.

If a person is to come to the Lord he comes as a sinner.

No man can clean himself up are atone for 1 sin. It's the Holyspirit that Position us in Christ and turns us from our sins. We can't and want do it.

The call to repentance in the Gospels is to mostly come out of Judaism,

Let me be clear!! We are asked to repent from all sin, but not as to initiate Salvation.

The repentance here seen in Revelation Ch 3, The Lord is talking to the Churches, "THEIR SALVATION HAS ALREADY BEEN SETTLED, GOD ONLY CHASTEN HIS OWN.

Revelation 3:19 (KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

THANKS

Hi S. Spencer,

Thanks. I also concur with your comments.

Regards.

To:Chacha Dean on Philippians 4

REPENTANCE NOT NEEDED FOR SALVATION - ONLY BELIEVING

You can believe what you want to, but here are some more scriptures that you have left out? Matthew 3:2 ( And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.)

Luke 13:3

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matthew 4:17

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Acts 17:30

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Revelation 3:19

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Acts 3:19

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

There is a lot more! Matthew 5:19 (Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.)

Hey Pastor Ronnie,

Let's examine some verses here in context and you can see some of my answers on Adam's post.

REVELATION 3:19 --> "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

First of all, this is a letter to the CHURCH. People who are saved already. They are not told to repent of sins, but rather to turn their ways around. This is the Church of the Laodiceans which was lukewarm: neither hot nor cold. They are divided in what they say and they don't have any stand. They say they are rich and need nothing but in real sense they are poor and miserable and blind and naked! Jesus is telling them to repent (to turn) from saying false things to saying truthful things.

ACTS 17:30 ---> And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"

It just says, "REPENT" and not repent of your sins. Paul was in Athens and saw a lot of idolatry. He saw that they have altars to all their gods and another altar written, "to the UNKNOWN GOD" in v.23. He tells them, "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; (v. 24 and 25) What are they to repent from? They should repent from thinking that God dwells in temples made with hands or thinking He is worshipped with men hands or thinking that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device(v.29) and to worship Him in spirit and truth.

1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins...". Confessing our sins is not the same as repenting of sins. Confessing is admitting that you are a sinner, because in the same chapter v. 8 it says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Whereas repenting is to turn form what you are doing wrong (sinning) to do what is right.

Matthew 7:6 (Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.) When you do something right do you say I am sorry for doing this right and good deed or do you say sorry for something that you do wrong. The Word of God should not be used for argument;

James 3:16

(For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.)

1 Corinthians 14:33

(For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.) As I stated before, believe what you want to, God gives us the freedom of choice. I will close by telling you I will be praying for you.

So, are you 100% sure that repenting is a 'false doctrine'?

Acts 2:38 - repent

Luke 13:3 - repent

Acts 3:19 - repent

1 John 1:9 - confess

There's even a page showing a whole list of verses on repenting:

Link

So, how do you reconcile what you're claiming with these verses that clearly say to repent and confess?

The Bible already predicted someone would assume what you did and already answered it:
James 2:19 - believing isn't enough. Even satan and demons believe. Do you think satan and demons will be in heaven? Most will go to hell as scripture says, even Christians. Many will cry out Lord, Lord and will be shocked they won't make it, because of how self righteous and justified they feel.

God bless.

On devils believing in James 2:19, it doesn't say devils believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and his resurrection but rather that there is one God, yet they still tremble... It doesn't mean they are going to heaven! The book of Jude says they are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Do devils believe God exists? Yes! Can they ever be saved? No, according to Jude and other scriptures. Their case is closed!

More evidence that devils believe God/ Jesus is real? Acts 19:13-16, the sons of Sceva who were casting our an unclean spirit failed and the unclean spirit said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye.."

Mark 1:34 - "And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him."

Matthew 8:28-29 - "And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

CHRISTIANS CANT GO TO HELL!

Matthew 7:21-23 ---> Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He that doeth the will of God(sanctification through Christ)is the one that shall enter heaven.

Remember in v.15 He started with, ".. beware of false prophets.." . Can devils perform miracles? YES. 10 plagues in Egypt. Moses does one, the magicians do the other.

Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles..

You mentioned Acts 2:38, Luke 13:3, Acts 3:19, 1 John 1:9

Let's examine:-

ACTS 3:19 - "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

Does it say "Repent of your sins"? No! It just says repent, and be converted. We cant always add "...of your sins" after every repent word we meet. What's the context? Look at verse 13 and 14 :- They denied the Holy one and Just and desired a murderer, the killed the Prince of life and they did it through ignorance (v17) Then Paul is telling them to repent from denying and rejecting Christ to accepting Him by faith..

LUKE 13:3 - "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Again, the context. Are they repenting of sins? No. In v.1 some guys tell Jesus that Pilate and mixed some Galileans blood with the sacrifices they were performing. Jesus asks they guys whether they thing the Galileans who Pilate has killed were more sinful than those alive in Galilee at the moment because of the suffering they went through. He tells them blatantly No (nay) and He tells them if they don't turn their ways (repent), they will perish in the same manner that Pilate did to the slain Galileans.

ACTS 2:38 - "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Again, no mention of "repent your sins." Context? After they had spoken in other tongues, some were amazed and others mocked the disciples by saying they are full of new wine(v.13) and then in v.22 and v.23 he tells them how despite Jesus showing signs and wonders and miracles, they still took him and crucified him, but God has raised him up again, and that God has made Jesus, whom they crucified, both Lord and Christ(v.36) They were pricked in their hearts and asked what to do. They need to turn from guilt (pricked) of crucifying Him to believe in Him.

Dear Chacha,

It is an unusual position to claim that repenting doesn't mean repenting of sins. In this context what else would someone be repenting of?

Why the resistance in repenting of sins, do you think it's wrong for someone to repent of their sins to God? If so, why?

How about confessing? Do you think it's bad to confess sins, but good to confess other things- what other things?

Just for clarification, do you believe that ACTS 2:38...

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Where it says to Repent, do you think it means DO NOT Repent? And it doesn't say "believe" here, but you think that's what it's supposed to say instead of what it says now?

And your point about even the devils believe in God you say they only believe in God the father, and not Jesus the son? So, when the devil tempted Jesus in the desert and they had a conversation, do you think the devil didn't know who Jesus was?

If he had no idea then why did the devil say "...If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread..." and "...If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down:..." And why did Jesus say "It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

The devil was an angel in heaven who was cast out so He's an angelic being with powers and knows who God and Jesus is.

If believing is all you need to be saved, then mass murders like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, will all be in heaven with satan then? Because most believe in Jesus, but the Bible clearly says that believing alone isn't enough. Hitler likely attended catholic church growing up so if actions of evil and sin are irrelevant then we'll be hugging and sharing meals with him in heaven then, despite him mass murdering millions?

Jesus clearly said most people will go to hell. Among those people will sadly be believers as it takes more than just believing. James 2:19

James 2:24

God bless.

Hey Adam,

Repenting and confessing are two different things. Confession is admitting you are a sinner( 1 John 1:8-9) but repentance, as I have stated earlier, is "to turn from something...." You say, "It is an unusual position to claim that repenting doesn't mean repenting of sins. In this context what else would someone be repenting of?" But looking at the bilbe, God repented more than anyone else. So if you are asking "..what else would someone be repenting of, if not sins" then I would ask you, did God sin so that He can repent? The problem is we associate repentance with " repenting of sins" and that's not the case. Even Hebrews says this:

Hebrews 6:1-3

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit."

Did the author say Repentance from sins? No! He said "repentance from dead works"... We cannot just add "...of your sins" in front of every "repent" word...

The Bible does not say devils believe so they will go to heaven. Romans 10:9 says - "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." I have never read anywhere where devils confessed with their mouths that God raised Christ from the dead, and even more so, devils cant get saved because it's to late for them - Jude 1:6 - Hitler, Stalin there is no evidence to suggest they got saved because of Matthew 7:14-20

Hey Adam,

I did not say repentance is a false doctrine, I said repenting of your sins to be saved is a false doctrine. Big difference. The reason we are KJV Only is because of the doctrine it teaches. In the whole Bible, God Himself repented even more than anyone else ( Gen 6:6, Gen 6:7, Ex 32:12-14, Deut 32:36, Judg 2:18, 1 Sam 15:11, 1 Sam 15:35, 2 Sam 24:16; 1 Chron 21:15; Psa 90:13, Psa 106:45, Psa 135:14, Jer 18:8, Jer 26:3, 13, 19, Jer 42:10, Joel 2:13-14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jonah 3:9-10; 4:2) Does that mean that God is a sinner for Him to repent? No! But these modern translations have used the word "God relented..." everywhere that God repented, to justify the idea that you only repent of your sins.

Infact there is no verse that says "Repent your sins"!! A verse that atleast comes close to that is "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." in Acts 8:22 and it was about Simon who WAS ALREADY SAVED(in verse 13) and he wanted to offer money to get power to lay hands on others and was rebuked by Peter. Simon was to "turn from what he was doing wrong, to do what is right".

As Christians are we supposed to repent after getting saved? YES! Because we keep sinning even after getting saved. We need to turn back to God and seek His ways rather than our ways. But for Salvation, you only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

The only repentance in regard to salvation that is Biblical is when you turn from a false religion, to Christ, because you cant be in Christ and also in another religion. You must repent(turn from the false religion) and then accept Christ, just like the Thessalonians ----> 1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

Repenting from evil/sin is one of the most important things in the Bible. OT and NT. There is nothing else to repent of.

Romans 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Christ preaching repent and to sin no more: Matthew 4:17, John 5:14, John 8:11.

In Revelation Jesus Christ makes it quite clear He's talking about repenting from sin/evil deeds.

Revelation 2:22-23 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they REPENT OF THEIR DEEDS.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your WORKS.

Read the first three chapters of Revelation to see what Christ is saying to the believers in the seven churches. He doesn't say "just because you believe everything is ok".

True faith in Jesus Christ is more than just believing. Like stated the most evil demonic people can believe in Jesus Christ but live according to the devil.

Faith without works is dead faith. James 2:26.

God Bless.

Hey Richard in Christ,

Thanks for your comment.

I did not say we should not repent our sins. Of course that's what we as Christians should do on a daily basis, because we see sin everyday and we try everyday not to live according to the works of the flesh by crucifying ourselves daily to the cross. Evidently, in Revelation 2 when Jesus is talking to church of Thyatira, He tells them He knows their works and their patience, charity etc and He tells them to repent OF THEIR DEEDS and those deeds happen to be sins.

So He tells them to turn from "teaching and seducing His servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols." v.20 and Jesus gave them a chance to turn from fornication to not fornicating but they did not.

When Jesus told some people, "...sin no more..", He basically is telling them to repent of their sins, because "sin no more" implies that they were "sinning" and so they are to turn from " sinning, to no more sinning"

The parallel verse to the verse you put - Matthew 4:17- is Mark 1:14-15 and it says, Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."

BELIEVE THE GOSPEL

Hi Chacha,

I'm sorry if I took your comments wrong. You made this post that started this whole thread: "REPENTANCE NOT NEEDED FOR SALVATION - ONLY BELIEVING

Dear readers, I have heard lots of sermons that teach that one must repent to be saved. I believe this is a false doctrine because NOWHERE in the whole Bible does anyone teach it. All the Scriptures teach is just believing:-".

I'm sure most of us here know what "repent" means. Also we receive the Holy Ghost before we "repent" or "change ways" because it is Christ in us guiding us down the straight and narrow path. We change because if Him. Away from the sins of the world we have all been indoctrinated into in our lives before coming to Christ. If any one "turns back" to the world it is said it shall not be good for that person. Hebrews 10:26-31, 2 Peter 20-22.

I'm sorry but I don't want to debate with you about this as I am confused about what you are stating. I think you are making it a bit confusing as I really don't know why you made the first post. It should be known that "mostly" when we state of "repenting" it is of sins. I guess you could just start using that word in everything "turn from or change" is used if you want.

A couple things I don't understand you using. Why would you even say or ask one of us if God could sin? That seems a bit harsh and uncalled for. Also how you stated that the book of John "It's the ONLY book that brings people to salvation". Which to me is false and not true. Though it does not have the word "repent" in it it has much of those being in darkness, evil deeds, and sin.

I'm going to stop here. As I'm going to make another post today about how saddened I am seeing of the division of Christ. Petty things that split believers when the main focus should be on Jesus Christ and His Word. Let the Holy Ghost be our teacher instead of another person though we should all help one another if able.

1 Corinthians 9:14.

God Bless you and have a wonderful day!