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Will a born again christian who loves God be killed for not taking the mark.... It's clear that the mark is important to buy food and gas and necessities so if I am alive when that occurs I must die for christ rather live temporarily on earth and be cast into hell...
It is my understanding that a born again Christian would never take the mark. A person cannot receive the mark without first worshiping the beast. Someone who is born of God's Spirit would never bow down and worship the beast.
It is also my understanding that if that time comes during our lifetime, we as born again believers will not be here anyway.
People are going to be given a choice right at the mid-point of the tribulation period to either take the mark and be able to buy and sell, or refuse and be put to death (probably beheaded).
The people who refuse to take the mark are those who chose to receive Christ sometime during the first 3-1/2 years of the tribulation period.
Every believer prior to the 7 year tribulation period will have already been snatched away by Christ and will not be faced with having to make the choice as to whether or not receive the mark.
But you have to keep in mind that there will be people getting saved during the the tribulation period as they will be warned not to take the mark. There will be the two witnesses preaching Christ. There will be an angel flying around in mid-heaven who will be warning people. And there will also be 144,000 Jews who will be evangelizing and warning people. The ones who receive Christ from their testimonies will be the ones who will refuse the mark. Those who receive the mark are the ones who continued to reject the testimony because of the hardness of their hearts.
Brother Adam, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Before you can understand Revelation you have to BELIEVE a few things.
Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND. You have to believe that it is relevant right this minute; that it's instructions on how our flesh is destroyed so be can inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 15:50 ...flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God..
Revelation 1:1 ...and he sent and SIGNIFIED it...
You have to believe that most nouns represent something other than what a dictionary defines them as.
Romans 8:20 For the creature (man) was made subject to vanity....
We start life with no faithfulness to our creator (husband); therefore, we are the WHORE. We have no knowledge of the word of God; therefore, we are the false prophet, we have no love or mercy; therefore we are the BEAST. We are the only beast that buys and sells. We are flesh; therefore, we are Anti Christ (opposed to Spirit).
When Revelation is finished with us we will be the FULLNESS OF CHRIST.
Romans 8:3 ....God sending his own Son in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh (us)...
Sinful flesh (us) was crucified with Christ; Christ arose and we arose with him.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.... they shall shall reign with him a thousand years.
You have already died to the mark you were born with (the beast) (flesh).
Revelation 13:15 ....as many as would not worship the the image of the beast (themselves and things of the flesh) should be killed.
Revelation 9:18 By these three were a third part of man killed, by FIRE, and by smoke, and by brimstone...
You were raised with Christ and now Christ lives in you.
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming FIRE.
You now live in the purifying fire of CHRIST where the beast and false prophet are:
Revelation 19:20.. cast alive into FIRE; cast alive into Christ.
As I know your views are very spiritual and that is good. Though just on one thing I would like to bring up about "fire". I very much understand God or Christ is a consuming fire and we are tried by fire as gold. To purify us. As in 1 Corinthians 3:13. Matthew 3:11.
Though as I will show you with one verse not ALL fire, to me anyway, is Christ, the Holy Ghost, or God in essence the way you perceive. As this fire would guide us to keep us clean and pure for God's Will.
Of coarse God made fire this just showing it is not always where we want to be.
At the end of Jude. In Jude 1:23 it speaks of how we should "save with fear" some people "pulling them out of the fire". As I think you will agree I don't think it is talking about pulling anyone out of the "fire of Christ". More likely the fire spoken of in Revelation 20:15, Matthew 25:41.
Also in the book of Enoch. Here is a small portion of chapter 108: for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn.
I know you and me have gone over this before in that I think you perceive everyone "will be saved" in the end. Which I don't fully agree with but that's ok. Whatever the Will of God is, that shall be. Us being Blessed to be with the Lord Jesus Christ is a priceless treasure.
Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, not having the Spirit.
1 Peter 2:8 ...even to them that stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto they were APPOINTED.
God is assembling a specific group of people in this age. The Priest that are going to rule, reign and judge the rest of the world in the ages to come. If you weren't CALLED (my sheep here my voice) to this glory then you were appointed to wait till the manifestion of the Sons of God. Since it is God's choice and not ours, God want condemn those for eternity that were not chosen to be Priest. They will be judged latter in US and CHRIST.
Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building you yourselves on you most holy faith (Christ is our faith), praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jude 1:21 Keeping yourselves (by Christ) in the love of God, looking for MERCY of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life (I am the life).
Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jude 1:23 And others save (teaching truth) with fear (respect unto God), pulling them out of the fire (Christ judgement in spiritual fire, just as effective as literal fire)(teaching them knowledge of God's plan), hating even the garment spotted with flesh.
Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns (Sons of God, power through Christ) which though saw on the beast, these shall hate the whore (unfaithfulness), and make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with FIRE,
Revelation 17:17 For God hath put it in their hearts to fulfil HIS WILL (all men will be saved), and give their kingdom (Christ in you) unto the beast, until the words of God (all will worship God) shall be fulfilled.
As I'm sure you know "hell" is just the English word that took over four "places". Sheol in Hebrew and in Greek Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus(used only once as the place where the angels that sinned are chained reserved unto judgement). Then of coarse the lake of fire where Hades is said to be cast.
My feelings of me being a judge to others in the end. In Christ. Right now I see it as this. If God wanted me to judge others the first thing I would do is ask God how He wanted me to judge. If it were God's Will for me to forgive everyone I most certainly would do that. Or righteous judgement. To me righteous judgement is not just pardoning or forgiving everyone. It would be weighing that persons heart, soul, intents, everything in life etc. Them making a righteous judgement on their life. As in the Old and New Testaments it is stated everyone shall be judged or recompensed according to our deeds in this life.
All in all Gods Will shall be done. Weather I understand it or not. Also as my full trust is in the Lord and I know anything is possible with God. As His ways, thoughts, intent and glory are so far above us I really don't see anyone knowing exactly what shall be. Keep our faith and full trust in Him with a pure heart and He will guide us in love.
As I like to always bring up that the most important thing is us staying focused on Him. They ways of Jesus Christ our Lord whom is our Savior to eternal life with the Father.
All praise and glory be to Jesus Christ our Lord which permeates straight to our Holy Father. We are noting without Him.
Like stated even though we may have different views on certain things. That's ok. You are still my brother in the Lord forever and are a very special member in the body of Christ. We are to love one another. The only thing I hate is sin or evil. Not the person who commits it as we are all able to be saved by the blood of Christ. As we were all on the wrong path at some point in our lives.
I very much enjoy conversing with you brother Earl. There will be a second post to this.
My view on all(everyone) being saved is this. If this were true, in my eyes, it actually would not matter, in the end, weather the person is a child of God or a child of the devil. As of coarse it is of the highest honor to have been chosen by God to be in Christ to be one of His and live for His Will. As truly my entire life is surrounded around Jesus Christ and wanting to live for the Will of our Father and please Him. Forever.
Though everybody is different I think some may just take that, all being saved in the end, as a free pass to do whatever they want, in this life, with no worry of consequence. Which I have stated before that it could be dangerous to preach that to the people who would take it as such and maybe make them worse people instead of better. Proverbs 9:10, Matthew 10:28, Hebrews 10:31.
As I have gone through my Bible and taken notes of verses from Christ and the Apostles about the "saved and unsaved". Easily over twenty times. Just seeing a verse like Matthew 25:46. Which states "everlasting punishment". Maybe in a verse like 1 Corinthians 1:18. Christ is "to them that perish" foolish but to us(saved) it is "the power of God".
Maybe to bring up one friend the Lord has brought me to just after being saved. It was at a funeral I first saw this friend after around twenty years. The Lord wanted me to tell someone about Him and something told me he was the one. This friend had actually had very spiritual experiences as well though not all good. The devil actually came to him and wanted his daughters soul. The Lord has pulled him from the road to destruction and set him on the right path. Though he is not perfect, as none of us are, we can talk for hours. One thing he perceives is this is "hell". As we don't see eye to eye on every aspect it's ok because I know he is a good person and courageous. Not afraid of any person or to speak what he feels.
Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
I know we as brothers and sisters don't agree on all things, Yet. I also believe that God has designed it that way. He said that household would be brother against brother, sister against sister, etc. This is one of those TEST we endure. Flesh reacts with anger or some other similar trait with his brother. Spirit is long suffering and patient, both are works of God that burn wood, hay, stubble, and purify gold and silver.
1 Corinthians 3:11-13
The Spirit caused me to stop believing in Hell as a place of torture for eternity; because, I can't reconcile it to FIT and not contradict other scriptures.
1 Timothy 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, specially of those that BELIEVE.
1 Timothy 4:11 These things COMMAND AND TEACH.
I BELIEVE Christ will save the world; although, not all in the age we are in now.
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1 Timothy 2:4 Who WILL HAVE (God's will; will be done) all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of truth.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature (creation) ITSELF ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death and the grave) into the glorious LIBERTY of the CHILDREN OF GOD.
I BELIEVE this is done in the ages to come after the SONS OF GOD have been revealed.
Romans 8:19 ...Creation WAITETH for the manifestation of the Sons of God.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you, and persecute you.
Since Christ is in us and causes us to LOVE OUR ENEMIES. I think he knows how to judge in righteousness and not torture.
Proverbs 16:6 Through MERCY and TRUTH iniquity is purged....
This part of the journey isn't that well thought out. The mark must signify a sworn oath to the beast ruler as God. I have a hard time believing that a father of 12 would deny the mark to not feed his family. A greater majority of "Christians" will make their own survival rules, appease their bellies, and take the mark.
*I will say this loud and clear: the only ones guaranteed of not taking the mark are the 144K elect. Most every Christian will take the mark over death.
What if I told you that taking a ss#, a drivers license, or a credit card was equivalent to taking the US govt's mark. It's that easy. What will you do when the lights go out? Death isn't bad compared to hell on earth, pining away in the valley of decision.
It is my understanding that a born again Christian would never take the mark. A person cannot receive the mark without first worshiping the beast. Someone who is born of God's Spirit would never bow down and worship the beast.
It is also my understanding that if that time comes during our lifetime, we as born again believers will not be here anyway.
People are going to be given a choice right at the mid-point of the tribulation period to either take the mark and be able to buy and sell, or refuse and be put to death (probably beheaded).
The people who refuse to take the mark are those who chose to receive Christ sometime during the first 3-1/2 years of the tribulation period.
Every believer prior to the 7 year tribulation period will have already been snatched away by Christ and will not be faced with having to make the choice as to whether or not receive the mark.
But you have to keep in mind that there will be people getting saved during the the tribulation period as they will be warned not to take the mark. There will be the two witnesses preaching Christ. There will be an angel flying around in mid-heaven who will be warning people. And there will also be 144,000 Jews who will be evangelizing and warning people. The ones who receive Christ from their testimonies will be the ones who will refuse the mark. Those who receive the mark are the ones who continued to reject the testimony because of the hardness of their hearts.
This website did it to me again. I did not type 144. I typed one-hundred and forty four thousand.
Before you can understand Revelation you have to BELIEVE a few things.
Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND. You have to believe that it is relevant right this minute; that it's instructions on how our flesh is destroyed so be can inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 15:50 ...flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God..
Revelation 1:1 ...and he sent and SIGNIFIED it...
You have to believe that most nouns represent something other than what a dictionary defines them as.
Romans 8:20 For the creature (man) was made subject to vanity....
We start life with no faithfulness to our creator (husband); therefore, we are the WHORE. We have no knowledge of the word of God; therefore, we are the false prophet, we have no love or mercy; therefore we are the BEAST. We are the only beast that buys and sells. We are flesh; therefore, we are Anti Christ (opposed to Spirit).
When Revelation is finished with us we will be the FULLNESS OF CHRIST.
Romans 8:3 ....God sending his own Son in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh (us)...
Sinful flesh (us) was crucified with Christ; Christ arose and we arose with him.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.... they shall shall reign with him a thousand years.
You have already died to the mark you were born with (the beast) (flesh).
Revelation 13:15 ....as many as would not worship the the image of the beast (themselves and things of the flesh) should be killed.
Revelation 9:18 By these three were a third part of man killed, by FIRE, and by smoke, and by brimstone...
You were raised with Christ and now Christ lives in you.
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming FIRE.
You now live in the purifying fire of CHRIST where the beast and false prophet are:
Revelation 19:20.. cast alive into FIRE; cast alive into Christ.
As I know your views are very spiritual and that is good. Though just on one thing I would like to bring up about "fire". I very much understand God or Christ is a consuming fire and we are tried by fire as gold. To purify us. As in 1 Corinthians 3:13. Matthew 3:11.
Though as I will show you with one verse not ALL fire, to me anyway, is Christ, the Holy Ghost, or God in essence the way you perceive. As this fire would guide us to keep us clean and pure for God's Will.
Of coarse God made fire this just showing it is not always where we want to be.
At the end of Jude. In Jude 1:23 it speaks of how we should "save with fear" some people "pulling them out of the fire". As I think you will agree I don't think it is talking about pulling anyone out of the "fire of Christ". More likely the fire spoken of in Revelation 20:15, Matthew 25:41.
Also in the book of Enoch. Here is a small portion of chapter 108: for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn.
I know you and me have gone over this before in that I think you perceive everyone "will be saved" in the end. Which I don't fully agree with but that's ok. Whatever the Will of God is, that shall be. Us being Blessed to be with the Lord Jesus Christ is a priceless treasure.
God Bless you brother Earl.
Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, not having the Spirit.
1 Peter 2:8 ...even to them that stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto they were APPOINTED.
God is assembling a specific group of people in this age. The Priest that are going to rule, reign and judge the rest of the world in the ages to come. If you weren't CALLED (my sheep here my voice) to this glory then you were appointed to wait till the manifestion of the Sons of God. Since it is God's choice and not ours, God want condemn those for eternity that were not chosen to be Priest. They will be judged latter in US and CHRIST.
Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building you yourselves on you most holy faith (Christ is our faith), praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jude 1:21 Keeping yourselves (by Christ) in the love of God, looking for MERCY of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life (I am the life).
Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jude 1:23 And others save (teaching truth) with fear (respect unto God), pulling them out of the fire (Christ judgement in spiritual fire, just as effective as literal fire)(teaching them knowledge of God's plan), hating even the garment spotted with flesh.
Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns (Sons of God, power through Christ) which though saw on the beast, these shall hate the whore (unfaithfulness), and make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with FIRE,
Revelation 17:17 For God hath put it in their hearts to fulfil HIS WILL (all men will be saved), and give their kingdom (Christ in you) unto the beast, until the words of God (all will worship God) shall be fulfilled.
God bless
As I'm sure you know "hell" is just the English word that took over four "places". Sheol in Hebrew and in Greek Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus(used only once as the place where the angels that sinned are chained reserved unto judgement). Then of coarse the lake of fire where Hades is said to be cast.
My feelings of me being a judge to others in the end. In Christ. Right now I see it as this. If God wanted me to judge others the first thing I would do is ask God how He wanted me to judge. If it were God's Will for me to forgive everyone I most certainly would do that. Or righteous judgement. To me righteous judgement is not just pardoning or forgiving everyone. It would be weighing that persons heart, soul, intents, everything in life etc. Them making a righteous judgement on their life. As in the Old and New Testaments it is stated everyone shall be judged or recompensed according to our deeds in this life.
All in all Gods Will shall be done. Weather I understand it or not. Also as my full trust is in the Lord and I know anything is possible with God. As His ways, thoughts, intent and glory are so far above us I really don't see anyone knowing exactly what shall be. Keep our faith and full trust in Him with a pure heart and He will guide us in love.
As I like to always bring up that the most important thing is us staying focused on Him. They ways of Jesus Christ our Lord whom is our Savior to eternal life with the Father.
All praise and glory be to Jesus Christ our Lord which permeates straight to our Holy Father. We are noting without Him.
Like stated even though we may have different views on certain things. That's ok. You are still my brother in the Lord forever and are a very special member in the body of Christ. We are to love one another. The only thing I hate is sin or evil. Not the person who commits it as we are all able to be saved by the blood of Christ. As we were all on the wrong path at some point in our lives.
God Bless.
My view on all(everyone) being saved is this. If this were true, in my eyes, it actually would not matter, in the end, weather the person is a child of God or a child of the devil. As of coarse it is of the highest honor to have been chosen by God to be in Christ to be one of His and live for His Will. As truly my entire life is surrounded around Jesus Christ and wanting to live for the Will of our Father and please Him. Forever.
Though everybody is different I think some may just take that, all being saved in the end, as a free pass to do whatever they want, in this life, with no worry of consequence. Which I have stated before that it could be dangerous to preach that to the people who would take it as such and maybe make them worse people instead of better. Proverbs 9:10, Matthew 10:28, Hebrews 10:31.
As I have gone through my Bible and taken notes of verses from Christ and the Apostles about the "saved and unsaved". Easily over twenty times. Just seeing a verse like Matthew 25:46. Which states "everlasting punishment". Maybe in a verse like 1 Corinthians 1:18. Christ is "to them that perish" foolish but to us(saved) it is "the power of God".
Maybe to bring up one friend the Lord has brought me to just after being saved. It was at a funeral I first saw this friend after around twenty years. The Lord wanted me to tell someone about Him and something told me he was the one. This friend had actually had very spiritual experiences as well though not all good. The devil actually came to him and wanted his daughters soul. The Lord has pulled him from the road to destruction and set him on the right path. Though he is not perfect, as none of us are, we can talk for hours. One thing he perceives is this is "hell". As we don't see eye to eye on every aspect it's ok because I know he is a good person and courageous. Not afraid of any person or to speak what he feels.
I know we as brothers and sisters don't agree on all things, Yet. I also believe that God has designed it that way. He said that household would be brother against brother, sister against sister, etc. This is one of those TEST we endure. Flesh reacts with anger or some other similar trait with his brother. Spirit is long suffering and patient, both are works of God that burn wood, hay, stubble, and purify gold and silver.
1 Corinthians 3:11-13
The Spirit caused me to stop believing in Hell as a place of torture for eternity; because, I can't reconcile it to FIT and not contradict other scriptures.
1 Timothy 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, specially of those that BELIEVE.
1 Timothy 4:11 These things COMMAND AND TEACH.
I BELIEVE Christ will save the world; although, not all in the age we are in now.
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1 Timothy 2:4 Who WILL HAVE (God's will; will be done) all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of truth.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature (creation) ITSELF ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death and the grave) into the glorious LIBERTY of the CHILDREN OF GOD.
I BELIEVE this is done in the ages to come after the SONS OF GOD have been revealed.
Romans 8:19 ...Creation WAITETH for the manifestation of the Sons of God.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you, and persecute you.
Since Christ is in us and causes us to LOVE OUR ENEMIES. I think he knows how to judge in righteousness and not torture.
Proverbs 16:6 Through MERCY and TRUTH iniquity is purged....
This part of the journey isn't that well thought out. The mark must signify a sworn oath to the beast ruler as God. I have a hard time believing that a father of 12 would deny the mark to not feed his family. A greater majority of "Christians" will make their own survival rules, appease their bellies, and take the mark.
*I will say this loud and clear: the only ones guaranteed of not taking the mark are the 144K elect. Most every Christian will take the mark over death.
What if I told you that taking a ss#, a drivers license, or a credit card was equivalent to taking the US govt's mark. It's that easy. What will you do when the lights go out? Death isn't bad compared to hell on earth, pining away in the valley of decision.
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