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Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 160396
If a Christian is faithful, washed in the blood of Christ and cleansed of our sins and then dies, do they go directly to heaven at death or do we wait until the end of the world when all are raised. Does purgatory exist? What is it for and where in the Bible can I read about it?
Most of us will face this, Death. Do we sleep in the earth until the resurrection, or go to heaven to be with the Lord? Regardless of which belief, there is no knowledge, no love, no hate, no work, no thoughts, no wisdom, or time in death. Some scriptures can be used to support both beliefs but it is for you to decide in your heart. Can we say either belief is wrong?
When the gospel of Christ was given to the Gentiles, the countries around were highly influenced by Greek Philosophy and beliefs like what happens when we die, mythical stories of death, paradise, hades, underworlds on more were widely spread by the people who were Greek and they stuck. I know some will disagree but that's ok we are not talking about things that cannot be debated that, like the only hope we have for salvation and eternal life is the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope this is not offensive or confusing. I thought instead of answering I would do something different, just ask a few questions I had and wrote down, when I studied this a while back, may they help you decide for your conscience.
I believe our body is just the dwelling place of our soul, and our spirit (breath) given to us by God is what keeps us alive. ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) ( Psalm 104:29) ( Psalm 146:4) ( James 2:26)
If we say our soul (we/us) is immortal and we are appointed once to die, what dies?
What is resurrected if our soul is already in heaven?
We are sealed (earnest, the down payment) by the Holy Spirit until when?
When are we redeemed?
Is our soul or our body the flesh that is corruptible and must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality?
When will we be absent from this body, is it when we die, or when we are resurrected?
When we meet Jesus in the air does scripture tell us where we go after we meet?
Again, I hope this is taken in love and not confusing, and may we be led by the Holy Spirit of truth.
Go back out to the Links page where you came in the website.
Type in the top search box,
Purgatory
That word is not in the King James Bible.
You can find it defined only through google. Why? Because it's not a Bible teaching. It is a name of a place the Roman Catholic Church teaches. A teaching of men; not God or Jesus.
The Bible says the born again Christian receives the Holy Spirit upon the moment of salvation. HE is your Teacher.
Use the search box to search out words such as: hell, hades, Abraham's bosom, lake of fire, Sheol, Tartarus, Abyss, gulf, place of torment
By the time you read through all those, you'll be an expert.
Jesus was in Paradise after he died on the Cross and was in the tomb. He walked out, went into Satans prison, took the keys away from him, preached to the prisoners, and led captivity captive. He set them free.
He has a key for everyone born of man.
There are 2 judgements to come:
For Christians: the Bema Seat of Christ. For rewards or not.
The Great White Throne Judgment: at the very end. God will preside over that one. Over unbelievers who did not choose Jesus as their Savior.
Cheryl, May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
To many people have been taught something different than the good news of the GOSPEL.
The GOSPEL is CHRIST IN YOU.
The word says we are all dead; walking around believing we are alive and we determine our destiny by what we do and the choices we make.
The TRUTH IS; we can do nothing in and of ourselves: Christ determines our destiny by WHAT HE DOES FOR US.
John 3:27 Jesus answered and said, a man can receive nothing, except it be GIVEN him from heaven.
1 Corinthians 4:4 For I know NOTHING BY MYSELF; yet am I not hereby JUSTIFIED: but he that JUDGETH me is the Lord (the word is judging you NOW).
John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you, for the prince of this world (those that believe they are living their lives on their own) cometh, and have NOTHING IN ME (not believing ALL IS OF GOD).
Galatians 6:3 If a man think himself to be something, when HE IS NOTHING, he deceiveth himself.
John 15:5 I am the vine you are the branches: He that abideth in me (TRUTH), and I (TRUTH) in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit (CHRIST IN YOU), for without me you can do NOTHING.
As Christ reveals himself to you through TRUTH you began to be a new creation; CHRIST IN YOU, and begin to BELIEVE what the word says. Christ is making you to be exactly like himself; everything he is, YOU ARE.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, NOW (when you BELIEVE) are we the sons of GOD, and it doeth not yet appear what we shall BE: but we know that, when he shall appear (NOW in TRUTH) we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
This is the FIRST DEATH and RESURRECTION; now in CHRIST, being JUDGED NOW in the words of Gods.
A NEW HEAVEN (You where Christ dwells); a new life and that life IS CHRIST.
Hello Cheryl. In reference to your questions: "Does purgatory exist? What is it for and where in the Bible can I read about it?"
Purgatory, from the verb, "to purge", is a Roman Catholic teaching whereby those who have died & yet have sins unconfessed & unforgiven, go into an intermediate state for further cleansing, making them fit to enter Heaven. We don't find any reference in the Bible to such a state that a departed soul goes through, though RCs find scriptural support for their belief. They cite, Isaiah 4:4 ("spirit of burning" as referring to burning off the filth of the flesh); Matthew 5:25,26 ("prison" being purgatory, & "the last penny" being the full payment of that purgation); 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (the test of "fire" as the place of refining & then acceptance by God); the Apocryphal Book 2 Maccabees 12:41-45 (a strong passage to show that the souls of the dead can be 'helped along the way' by making further sacrifice (monetary offering), with prayers making reconciliation for their sins); & so we have 'prayers for the dead'.
If you know your Bible, & especially the references I've given, then you can see how Scriptures can be twisted to mean something else - to support their belief in a further purgation, with the prayers, offerings, masses, etc. to assure the soul's entrance to Heaven. Yet Hebrews 10:14, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Verse 18, "Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." These verses tell us that Jesus' Sacrifice is sufficient to deal with the sin problem & to make us (those He has sanctified) perfect (clean & acceptable to God). And if our sins have been remitted (removed or transmitted onto Him), there can be no further offering for sin.
So there is nothing that can possibly be offered to God, whether in this life or the next, that will further guarantee our entrance into Heaven. It's all of Grace - it's all found in the Cross & the shed Blood of Jesus.
As I'm not here to say who is going to Heaven and who isn't. Just to put my view to your question with a couple verses. First off there are no surprises with God and He knows exactly who is going to spend eternity with Him. As in Ephesians 1:4-6.
I believe us in the Lord who are His and worthy to be with Him for eternity go to be with Him when our physical body dies. A couple verses: 2 Corinthians 5:1-10, Philippians 1:21-23.
As it is written there are two resurrections. Here in Revelation 7:9-17 are all types of people in Heaven around the throne of God and Christ. Also Revelation 20:4-6 which speaks of those who are worthy of the first resurrection who live and reign with Christ and shall not see the second death. This is before the great judgement which is the end of the chapter.
As also that confirms that not all shall go to be with Christ right after our physical death. Only those worthy of the first resurrection and the rest of the dead lived not until the second resurrection before the great judgement.
The Bible says we will all first be judged. Not just non-Christians, not just "sinners."
Ecclesiastes 12:14
2 Corinthians 5:10
Matthew 12:36
We also know that some will be confident and assume they'll go to heaven, but won't get in.
Matthew 7:21
To me that means that no one is going to either of those places until after judgment day:
Revelation 20:11-15
Hebrews 9:27
1 Corinthians 4:5
And finally, if people don't go to heaven or hell when they die, where else do they go? Here's what the Bible says:
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 4:17
I believe just as 8 hours can pass in the snap of a finger will it seem like a snap of the finger for those "sleeping" will awake and rise to meet Jesus in the air then face judgment. This took time to put together and paste all these verses here for you, so I hope you likewise take a moment to hover over them and read them. I care.
Most of us will face this, Death. Do we sleep in the earth until the resurrection, or go to heaven to be with the Lord? Regardless of which belief, there is no knowledge, no love, no hate, no work, no thoughts, no wisdom, or time in death. Some scriptures can be used to support both beliefs but it is for you to decide in your heart. Can we say either belief is wrong?
When the gospel of Christ was given to the Gentiles, the countries around were highly influenced by Greek Philosophy and beliefs like what happens when we die, mythical stories of death, paradise, hades, underworlds on more were widely spread by the people who were Greek and they stuck. I know some will disagree but that's ok we are not talking about things that cannot be debated that, like the only hope we have for salvation and eternal life is the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope this is not offensive or confusing. I thought instead of answering I would do something different, just ask a few questions I had and wrote down, when I studied this a while back, may they help you decide for your conscience.
I believe our body is just the dwelling place of our soul, and our spirit (breath) given to us by God is what keeps us alive. ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) ( Psalm 104:29) ( Psalm 146:4) ( James 2:26)
If we say our soul (we/us) is immortal and we are appointed once to die, what dies?
What is resurrected if our soul is already in heaven?
We are sealed (earnest, the down payment) by the Holy Spirit until when?
When are we redeemed?
Is our soul or our body the flesh that is corruptible and must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality?
When will we be absent from this body, is it when we die, or when we are resurrected?
When we meet Jesus in the air does scripture tell us where we go after we meet?
Again, I hope this is taken in love and not confusing, and may we be led by the Holy Spirit of truth.
RLW
Type in the top search box,
Purgatory
That word is not in the King James Bible.
You can find it defined only through google. Why? Because it's not a Bible teaching. It is a name of a place the Roman Catholic Church teaches. A teaching of men; not God or Jesus.
The Bible says the born again Christian receives the Holy Spirit upon the moment of salvation. HE is your Teacher.
Use the search box to search out words such as: hell, hades, Abraham's bosom, lake of fire, Sheol, Tartarus, Abyss, gulf, place of torment
By the time you read through all those, you'll be an expert.
Jesus was in Paradise after he died on the Cross and was in the tomb. He walked out, went into Satans prison, took the keys away from him, preached to the prisoners, and led captivity captive. He set them free.
He has a key for everyone born of man.
There are 2 judgements to come:
For Christians: the Bema Seat of Christ. For rewards or not.
The Great White Throne Judgment: at the very end. God will preside over that one. Over unbelievers who did not choose Jesus as their Savior.
To many people have been taught something different than the good news of the GOSPEL.
The GOSPEL is CHRIST IN YOU.
The word says we are all dead; walking around believing we are alive and we determine our destiny by what we do and the choices we make.
The TRUTH IS; we can do nothing in and of ourselves: Christ determines our destiny by WHAT HE DOES FOR US.
John 3:27 Jesus answered and said, a man can receive nothing, except it be GIVEN him from heaven.
1 Corinthians 4:4 For I know NOTHING BY MYSELF; yet am I not hereby JUSTIFIED: but he that JUDGETH me is the Lord (the word is judging you NOW).
John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you, for the prince of this world (those that believe they are living their lives on their own) cometh, and have NOTHING IN ME (not believing ALL IS OF GOD).
Galatians 6:3 If a man think himself to be something, when HE IS NOTHING, he deceiveth himself.
John 15:5 I am the vine you are the branches: He that abideth in me (TRUTH), and I (TRUTH) in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit (CHRIST IN YOU), for without me you can do NOTHING.
As Christ reveals himself to you through TRUTH you began to be a new creation; CHRIST IN YOU, and begin to BELIEVE what the word says. Christ is making you to be exactly like himself; everything he is, YOU ARE.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, NOW (when you BELIEVE) are we the sons of GOD, and it doeth not yet appear what we shall BE: but we know that, when he shall appear (NOW in TRUTH) we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
This is the FIRST DEATH and RESURRECTION; now in CHRIST, being JUDGED NOW in the words of Gods.
A NEW HEAVEN (You where Christ dwells); a new life and that life IS CHRIST.
Purgatory, from the verb, "to purge", is a Roman Catholic teaching whereby those who have died & yet have sins unconfessed & unforgiven, go into an intermediate state for further cleansing, making them fit to enter Heaven. We don't find any reference in the Bible to such a state that a departed soul goes through, though RCs find scriptural support for their belief. They cite, Isaiah 4:4 ("spirit of burning" as referring to burning off the filth of the flesh); Matthew 5:25,26 ("prison" being purgatory, & "the last penny" being the full payment of that purgation); 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (the test of "fire" as the place of refining & then acceptance by God); the Apocryphal Book 2 Maccabees 12:41-45 (a strong passage to show that the souls of the dead can be 'helped along the way' by making further sacrifice (monetary offering), with prayers making reconciliation for their sins); & so we have 'prayers for the dead'.
If you know your Bible, & especially the references I've given, then you can see how Scriptures can be twisted to mean something else - to support their belief in a further purgation, with the prayers, offerings, masses, etc. to assure the soul's entrance to Heaven. Yet Hebrews 10:14, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Verse 18, "Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." These verses tell us that Jesus' Sacrifice is sufficient to deal with the sin problem & to make us (those He has sanctified) perfect (clean & acceptable to God). And if our sins have been remitted (removed or transmitted onto Him), there can be no further offering for sin.
So there is nothing that can possibly be offered to God, whether in this life or the next, that will further guarantee our entrance into Heaven. It's all of Grace - it's all found in the Cross & the shed Blood of Jesus.
As I'm not here to say who is going to Heaven and who isn't. Just to put my view to your question with a couple verses. First off there are no surprises with God and He knows exactly who is going to spend eternity with Him. As in Ephesians 1:4-6.
I believe us in the Lord who are His and worthy to be with Him for eternity go to be with Him when our physical body dies. A couple verses: 2 Corinthians 5:1-10, Philippians 1:21-23.
As it is written there are two resurrections. Here in Revelation 7:9-17 are all types of people in Heaven around the throne of God and Christ. Also Revelation 20:4-6 which speaks of those who are worthy of the first resurrection who live and reign with Christ and shall not see the second death. This is before the great judgement which is the end of the chapter.
As also that confirms that not all shall go to be with Christ right after our physical death. Only those worthy of the first resurrection and the rest of the dead lived not until the second resurrection before the great judgement.
God Bless.
The Bible says we will all first be judged. Not just non-Christians, not just "sinners."
Ecclesiastes 12:14
2 Corinthians 5:10
Matthew 12:36
We also know that some will be confident and assume they'll go to heaven, but won't get in.
Matthew 7:21
To me that means that no one is going to either of those places until after judgment day:
Revelation 20:11-15
Hebrews 9:27
1 Corinthians 4:5
And finally, if people don't go to heaven or hell when they die, where else do they go? Here's what the Bible says:
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 4:17
I believe just as 8 hours can pass in the snap of a finger will it seem like a snap of the finger for those "sleeping" will awake and rise to meet Jesus in the air then face judgment. This took time to put together and paste all these verses here for you, so I hope you likewise take a moment to hover over them and read them. I care.
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