Bible Discussion Thread

I wonder whether there are other believers out there that have insight into the "next phase" of our existence in the Lord. We seem to be preoccupied with the travails of this world and are given a small glimpse of the coming end of it, but no one has attempted to describe what it will really mean to live for eternity with God. Think about it. No more pain, no more suffering, you will know even as you are known, no more war or conflict.

Its like saying that there is a Yin, but no Yang in the universe.

This is not how humans are wired. This is not consistent with the idea that where there is good, there is also evil... concepts we have held true since our own humble beginnings.

I submit to my Christian brethren that some fundamental change is going to occur when we enter into eternity with our Lord...that goes beyond the natural instincts for survival, for reproduction, for self awareness, etc.

If there is a scripture out there that I have missed or overlooked, I would appreciate being pointed toward it.

Thank you all and God bless you.

Brother Kevin, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

We were predestined to become SONS OF GOD and all that that implies.

Christ was the FIRSTBORN (Son of God) of creation; Christ is now CALLING OUT the ones in the age we are presently in; to be a PREISTHOOD (Sons of God; recreated into HIS exact likeness). These are the children of the first resurrection. These are the ones that will judge the world with Christ and bring righteousness to the earth. This is one of those HARD THINGS to UNDERSTAND. At the death of your body you will be GIVEN a glorified body (you will be GIVEN the FULLNESS of Christ). You will become a consuming FIRE like Christ. You will be OMNIPRESENT; able to judge in the form of SPIRIT, just like Christ; or stand in visible form, just like Christ. Man can't comprehend this so they teach traditions of man; you go to heaven and set in you easy chair eating chocolates. This is what all the saints that have gone before us are doing RIGHT NOW. They are MINISTERING SPIRITS in glorified bodies ministering to the ones (us) that are going to be HEIRS of salvation. ( Hebrews 1:14)

Revelation 20:4 The thousand year reign is not literally one thousand years; but symbolic of the ONE DAY (day of the Lord). This one day (a day called today) has been going on for 2000 years and will continue until all of Christ's PRIESTS have been put in place.

Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS (Sons of God) shall come up on mount Zion and JUDGE the mount of Esau; and the kingdom (CHRIST IN YOU) shall be the LORD'S.

Brother Earl - I think you hit the nail on the head.

Eternity is defined as that state to which time has no application; timelessness. Like the singularity produced by a black hole or a mathematical equation that has no end, we will exist in a state which is nether static nor cyclical.

The judgement is the fire which will consume all that is not divine, since nothing but the divine can merge into the consuming fire that is our Lord and King.

After the final judgement, all creation has been replaced with the new heaven and the new earth, in which sits the new Jerusalem, where we will abide for eternity with our Lord.

But, doing what, exactly?

We Christians are not specifically taught about this state, which is my complaint. The devil has been thrown into eternal fire with his minions and those that embraced him. The saints have all be transfigured. Death has been conquered. What is left? What is left to accomplish?

Your reply makes the answer abundantly clear..... TO LOVE. To love God and worship Him, to love one another, to love whatever the new heaven and new earth has in it. For eternity. Forever.

Thank you for considered reply. God bless you and yours.

Hello again Earl. I wonder if in your life somewhere you have been exposed to anabaptist teachings like I have, even though we may have no blood connection to anabaptist descendants?

Thanks for your sharing if you please.

Carleton

Brother Carleton, I don't know what anabaptist teach. I was raised with the doctrines taught by southern baptist. Through thousands of hours studying the scriptures and begging Christ to show me the meaning; I no longer adhere to the doctrine of hell, and that man has FREE WILL and goes to an abode called heaven.

The word of God CAN NOT contradict. Hundreds of verses says all creation will obey and worship God.

A literal hell makes these words a lie; but Spiritual FIRE and Spiritual JUDGEMENT don't CONTRADICT.

Isaiah 10:16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of host, send among his fat ones a leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a BURNING like the burning of a FIRE.

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the SPIRIT OF JUDGEMENT, and by the SPIRIT OF BURNING.

May CHRIST CAUSE us walk in the WORDS of GOD.

Isaiah 63:17 O Lord why has THOU MADE US TO ERR from thy ways, and hardened our hearts from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribe of thine inheritance.

Questions? Let's talk.

Hello Earl,

I'm interested in your comment "A literal hell makes these words a lie."

Most Christians believe in a literal hell and don't believe the Bible contradicts itself nor is a lie, so can you please explain how you came to this conclusion?

Brother Adam, May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

You are going to say that God gives us FREE WILL and it's up to us to ACCEPT this FREE gift of salvation and the ones that don't accept it will go to HELL.

This ALSO contradicts GOD'S word:

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL (no free will; but God's will).

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times (ages) he might gather together IN ONE ALL THINGS IN CHRIST (no free will in that scripture)...

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh (no free will) IN YOU both to WILL and DO of HIS GOOD PLEASURE.

Philippians 2:10 At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaves, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Philippians 2:11 And that ever tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I know the Christians arguments with God's WORD; for years I argued the same way.

Brother Adam, may CHRIST IN US grace us with His wisdom and HIS understanding.

The first verse in Revelation says that the words are SIGNIFIED (they represent something out than what a dictionary defines them).

Christians don't have a problem BELIEVING that the Lamb of God is not a literal lamb, but represents Christ.

Eyes are a flame of fire

Mouth with two edged sword

Candlesticks

The beast

The living creatures

The elders

Scorpions

Frogs

There are hundreds of words in Revelation that are REPRESENTATIVE of something ELSE. Christians by the thousands are willing to BELIEVE these are symbols; YET when you come to THE LAKE OF FIRE, Christians by the thousands SCREAM IT IS LITERAL.

If it is LITERAL then it contradicts hundreds of out scriptures, but if it too is representative of something ELSE; then it does not contradict these other scriptures.

Brother Adam, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

John 6:38 For I (the word, Christ) am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him (Father) who SENT (the word) me (Christ).

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father has SENT the SON (HIS WORD) to be SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.

Most Christians DON'T BELIEVE GOD'S WORD.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my (Father's) word (CHRIST) be that goeth forth out of my (Father's) mouth: it (word, CHRIST) shall not return unto me void, but it (word, CHRIST) shall accomplish that which I please, and it (word, CHRIST) shall prosper in the THING (to be saviour of the world) whereto I SENT IT (word, CHRIST).

A literal lake of fire and brimstone that last for ETERNITY make the words above a LIE.

Brother Adam, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Most Christians believe that at the judgement of the world the wicked will be cast into LITERAL FIRE for all ETERNITY.

If this is true then it make those scriptures that say ALL will OBEY and WORSHIP GOD a LIE; therefore the ones that believe this are calling God a LIAR.

Revelation 13:8 And ALL that dwell upon the earth shall WORSHIP HIM, whose names ARE NOT WRITTEN in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 15:4 ....for ALL NATIONS shall come and WORSHIP before THEE ....

Revelation 3:9 ...I WILL MAKE THEM to come and WORSHIP before thy feet.....

Psalms 22:27 ALL the ends of the world shall REMEMBER and TURN (repent) unto the LORD, and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass .....shall ALL flesh come to WORSHIP before me..

You can't have an ETERNAL LITERAL FIRE torturing God's creation and a SAVIOUR of man exist together: be careful which one you chose.

Most believe hell wins: FEW find the way!

Brother Earl,

I really don't want to go back and fourth about this with you as I know you have your own beliefs.

The one thing that is making me post is this in your comment "therefore the ones that believe this are calling God a LIAR." With all humility and humbleness I beg you please do not write things like this. This is FALSE! I also believe in a "Heaven" and a "hell"(weather gehenna, hades, outer darkness, or the lake of fire).

A place for the wicked that Jesus Christ preached about many times. Telling us to "fear God who can destroy both body and SOUL in gehenna." Matthew 10:28. Also stating in Matthew 25:46 "everlasting (punishment)" The same Greek word used for "eternal (life)".

Also I will bring up what I've read in 1 Enoch. How all shall come before "the Son of Man(Christ)" on His throne and worship Him and beg for His mercy. Though they will nor receive it. Just because all shall worship the Lord one day does not mean all shall be saved. That is up to God alone who shall be saved and receive mercy. God's ways, thoughts, ability, wisdom, is so far beyond us we cannot comprehend.

We are to fear God as is taught in the Old and New Testaments. This is the beginning of wisdom, to depart from evil/sin, serve Him with a pure heart and fervently love Him.

Please my brother. Do not say we who believe in "hell" are calling God a liar as that breaks my heart. I would never say that to any other brother or sister in Christ. Just as you have Scriptures to uphold your "belief" or "interpretation" so we also have Scriptures that plainly say "hell" is a place we don't want to go.

I will end with the most important thing as there will always be different views. May we all focus on the ways of Jesus Christ our Lord following Him to do the Will of our Father in Heaven. With a pure heart producing good fruit in the Spirit loving one another. Putting all our faith and trust in the Lord.

I won't fill the page with verses. This was from the heart.

God Bless.

Brother Richard IN CHRIST, if verse A says one thing and verse B says the OPPOSITE; then one is NOT TRUE, YET both are God's WORD. This is impossible. They have to be judged by other scriptures to come to truth. A literal hell and Christ being saviour of the world don't agree with each other. If the lake of fire is spiritual judgement IN CHRIST; and that judgement eventually brings forth righteousness, then the scriptures don't contradict. Why is it so offensive to Christians that Christ will save everyone. We ALL MURDERED CHRIST; we believe he saves us; yet most want believe he will save Judas. That' s CONTRADICTION and a LIE.

None of these words should be taken out of context that WE LOVE EACH OTHER AS WE LOVE OURSELVES; but for edifying of the brotherhood.

Hello Earl, Thank you for the quick reply and nice salutations. Likely many of us by now have thousands of hours in this flesh already with Christ dwelling in us by peace and love. The practice of some believing people of revenge like suing for example, how does this fit into your understanding in the fullness of Christ?

I like talking, but I do still have a growing family at home to attend even though I am not exactly young. One of which is in the hospital after being burned by hot water after fainting in the shower.

I live in No Ca where the Cascades and the Sierras meet straight across the valley from a nearby window is the Coastal range.

Brother Carleton, I BELIEVE you don't sue. God will restore you losses. If you are sued; agree with your adversary quickly, God will restore your losses. I BELIEVE God causes us to make the choices we make. Until we understand this; he often causes us to make wrong choices, teaching us WHO IS SOVEREIGN.

Hopefully your child is not to severely burned; God's grace was there before the doctors. This is one of the HARDEST trials we are made to endure; seeing our children suffer. God's grace rest on you and your family.

Thank you Earl. Sometimes is seems like accidents or even true or perceived health events happen so we can go visit the doctors and nurses, cleaning staff, security and perhaps neighbors in the nearby rooms. We are hoping to care for him in our home ourselves as soon as possible (hopefully today). Something about the flesh of our flesh requires surrender too, to maintain peace and love in Jesus Christ. Agreeing with our adversaries can be a choice or in Christian terms a surrendered will, finally non-resistance and non-comformity. How does God's grace determine a surrendered will?

I appreciate our talk and your love and care to our family. This particular family member has a special light, he is not deep or studied at all but 100% steadfastly walking in faith with a song on his heart.

:)

Brother Carleton; You are CHOOSEN, one doesn't have to be deep or studied. As you said just a special LIGHT! People see light more than they hear words. Our prayers are with your son.