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John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
No man has ever ascended to heaven except Jesus after resurrected in His glorified body, no man has seen heaven other than the visions they have been shown in the Spirit. Jesus is saying no man can teach the truth of heaven but the Son of God who is from heaven. Nicodemus was not believing Jesus, trusting the world's wisdom which is foolishness with God. Like in Proverbs, it shows Nicodemus with the vanity of human struggle to know God.
Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Only with the Holy Spirit can we understand the word of God, which is sent from God in the name of Jesus. We are baptized with water for the forgiveness of our sins and buried with Him by baptism into death. Jesus baptizes us in the Holy Spirit to walk in newness of life and are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise that as He was raised from the dead, so shall we be. What happens after this body dies is another discussion?
Just remember which half of the Bible you are looking at.
Apostle Paul saw 3rd Heaven. John and Peter saw Jesus speaking to Moses and Elijah. Stephen the evangelist saw heaven open and Jesus stand up..as the people stoned him to death.
If someone says something that doesn't sound right; use the Search Box on this website and look stuff up.
I was playing around with it one day and typed CHINA in the search box!!!!! Up pops 3-4 verses.
I read them, got out the ancient names maps.
There are 3 scriptures that say China and the Mideast are the nations that will afflict the end times with Pestilence/Pandemic mass national deaths. Poor People with not enough food. Wow, huh? Stop eating sushi perhaps? I don't know.
John 3:13 is not telling us that we do not get to go be with the Lord. You have to keep in mind that when Jesus spoke those words, He had not yet been crucified, He had not yet been resurrected, and He had not yet ascended up into heaven. Also, the Holy Spirit had not yet come, and I'll explain why that is important in understanding this verse.
Jesus rose from the dead so that we also will rise to be with him upon our own physical death. Those who belong to Christ, when our fleshly body dies, our spirit goes to be with the Lord immediately.
Here is what I believe John 3:13 is saying:
Jesus is saying that I am the only One that has come down from heaven. He says, But if I tell you earthly things and you don't get it, and you are the master teacher. You see, he should have associated the Lord's teaching to Ezekiel Chapter 37 Verses 1 through 15.
This is where God takes the prophet and He shows them a valley of dead bones and says this is Israel.
Spiritually dead! And He says to him, prophecy over these bones that flesh would come on them. And the bones came together and the flesh came on the bones.
And then He says prophecy to the wind that the wind would blow on them and breathe life in them. And he prophesies and the wind blows and they are filled with life and spirit.
And so God's promise to His people Israel is that you are spiritually dead until my spirit gives you life. But right now you are spiritually dead!
And He tells Nicodemus, you should have known what I was talking about. How can you be the master teacher in Israel and you don't know anything about being born from above? You don't know anything about the wind blowing, and how the spirit moves!
So at the time Jesus said "no man hath ascended up to heaven," that would have been true as the Holy Spirit had not yet come, and no one can go be with the Lord unless they are born of God's Spirit (Holy Spirit indwelling).
Jesse, You say at our death we go in spirit to be with Jesus. If Jesus is the spirit of God and God is indwelling man then it appears we will be in others as he is in us. Is this correct? Sounds like heaven is man.
What I am saying is that when we die, our spirit leaves our body. In fact, the word death literally means separation. A believer's spirit separates from their physical body and immediately goes to be with the Lord. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:8 that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Right now, the Lord's with us but we're not with Him in heaven. But as soon as we are absent from the body, as soon as we experience death which means separation, as soon as our spirit leaves our body, we're in the presence of the Lord.
There's no "soul sleep." There are no in-between phases. Paul says I'd rather be out of this body and present with the Lord. But in the meantime, while we're here, we live by faith. We live by the Spirit of God!
As far as heaven being man, I know nothing about that. I've never heard that before. Heaven is a place, not a person.
Jesse, is the Holy Spirit of God and Christ abiding in believers? I don't understand how we die and are not present with him and the Father. Revelation 31:22 says the new Jerusalem has no temple in it because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple thereof. If they are the temple in the new Jerusalem and they abide in man it seems that born again men are the new Jerusalem; making them the city of righteousness. 1 Corinthians 3:16 says we are the temple of God because new Jerusalem has come down from heaven to abide in men. It seems to me that since Christ is in man; bringing man to truth, then the ones that have left their bodies of flesh and now have the body of Christ (being one with Christ) are also in man doing the works of Christ. Ruling and reigning with Christ. They shall reign with Christ a thousand years (a thousand years is as one day). It seems to me this has been happening since Christ ascended into the new heaven (man).
Believing in the Jesus that died for sins - In Reply - 3 years ago
Paul made it crystal clear in chapter 1 that the Christians in Corinth would stand guiltless before God on the day of the Lord. Their saving faith in Christ had been affirmed by the fact that they had received gifts from the Holy Spirit. These Corinthians are undoubtedly Christians.
Now, though, Paul says the fact that they are saved does not mean he can call them spiritual people. They are not living as spiritual people. They are still living as if they were of the flesh. Paul compares them to a person stuck in infancy, who should have matured enough by now to be ready for the solid food of deeper Christian teaching. Instead, they're still on a newborn's all-milk diet. This is not an entirely unique problem, as the writer of Hebrews chastised his readers for a similar weakness ( Hebrews 5:11-14). Instead of living in the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit and according to God's wisdom about spiritual things, the Corinthian Christians are still behaving as if they were mere, unspiritual human beings ( 1 Corinthians 3:1-2).
We are the temple of God the Holy Spirit. When we are born again, he comes to indwell in our hearts and He is Our Teacher; if we will ask Him to teach us? It requires Bible study, praying, and practicing quietness so we can hear the Holy Spirit's still small voice.
He has milk, manna and meat. Scripture says to desire the pure milk. A believer that thinks they don't actually have to read the Bible, or attend church to learn: are carnal, live for fleshly pleasures: video games, beer parties, etc.
Jesus is not fire insurance against hell. He paid it ALL on the Cross and died for our personal sin debts. Watch The video, The Passion of the Christ, directed by Mel Gibson.
All this gets sorted out: Matthew 25:32-46 by Jesus Christ. His Bema Seat Judgment occurs before New Jerusalem. For rewards, or no rewards.
I am not sure if you are truly seeking an answer to John 3:13 (your original question), or if you are passing on what you believe to be the answer?
I have read through your post several times trying to figure out what you are trying to say. Maybe I am just misunderstanding what you are saying but I am having a hard time coming up with the same understanding. What you are saying seems foreign to me. Sorry I couldn't be more help to answer your original question!
May I gently remind you of something that I think you are missing. You are telling Laura that the soul when it dies returns to God, not to Jesus.
Perhaps you are not a believer in the Trinity; God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), God the Holy Spirit. They are three in one, not three different persons. When one closes his eyes here on earth in death, they will immediately open them again and be looking into the face of their Savior, Jesus, the Son of God. Absent from the body, present with the Lord. You cannot separate the Trinity into three different persons, because there is only one God and He is the three in one.
You said: "They are three in one, not three different persons."
See, what prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
1 John 5:v. 7 - There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father (GOD, the Father), the Word (the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language), but a Person - the Comforter): and these three are One.
JESUS said: I and my Father are One- John 10:v.30. Two distincts Persons, but both are One.
Concerning the Person of the Holy Spirit (he is not a ghost as is written in English language), JESUS said: John 16:v.12-15: - 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when HE, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE will guide you into all truth: for HE shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for He shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Matthew 11:v.27 - No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son,
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven
I thought Jesus came so we could go up to heaven to be with him? This says we don't go up to heaven.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
No man has ever ascended to heaven except Jesus after resurrected in His glorified body, no man has seen heaven other than the visions they have been shown in the Spirit. Jesus is saying no man can teach the truth of heaven but the Son of God who is from heaven. Nicodemus was not believing Jesus, trusting the world's wisdom which is foolishness with God. Like in Proverbs, it shows Nicodemus with the vanity of human struggle to know God.
Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Only with the Holy Spirit can we understand the word of God, which is sent from God in the name of Jesus. We are baptized with water for the forgiveness of our sins and buried with Him by baptism into death. Jesus baptizes us in the Holy Spirit to walk in newness of life and are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise that as He was raised from the dead, so shall we be. What happens after this body dies is another discussion?
God bless,
RLW
Apostle Paul saw 3rd Heaven. John and Peter saw Jesus speaking to Moses and Elijah. Stephen the evangelist saw heaven open and Jesus stand up..as the people stoned him to death.
If someone says something that doesn't sound right; use the Search Box on this website and look stuff up.
I was playing around with it one day and typed CHINA in the search box!!!!! Up pops 3-4 verses.
I read them, got out the ancient names maps.
There are 3 scriptures that say China and the Mideast are the nations that will afflict the end times with Pestilence/Pandemic mass national deaths. Poor People with not enough food. Wow, huh? Stop eating sushi perhaps? I don't know.
John 3:13 is not telling us that we do not get to go be with the Lord. You have to keep in mind that when Jesus spoke those words, He had not yet been crucified, He had not yet been resurrected, and He had not yet ascended up into heaven. Also, the Holy Spirit had not yet come, and I'll explain why that is important in understanding this verse.
Jesus rose from the dead so that we also will rise to be with him upon our own physical death. Those who belong to Christ, when our fleshly body dies, our spirit goes to be with the Lord immediately.
Here is what I believe John 3:13 is saying:
Jesus is saying that I am the only One that has come down from heaven. He says, But if I tell you earthly things and you don't get it, and you are the master teacher. You see, he should have associated the Lord's teaching to Ezekiel Chapter 37 Verses 1 through 15.
This is where God takes the prophet and He shows them a valley of dead bones and says this is Israel.
Spiritually dead! And He says to him, prophecy over these bones that flesh would come on them. And the bones came together and the flesh came on the bones.
And then He says prophecy to the wind that the wind would blow on them and breathe life in them. And he prophesies and the wind blows and they are filled with life and spirit.
And so God's promise to His people Israel is that you are spiritually dead until my spirit gives you life. But right now you are spiritually dead!
And He tells Nicodemus, you should have known what I was talking about. How can you be the master teacher in Israel and you don't know anything about being born from above? You don't know anything about the wind blowing, and how the spirit moves!
So at the time Jesus said "no man hath ascended up to heaven," that would have been true as the Holy Spirit had not yet come, and no one can go be with the Lord unless they are born of God's Spirit (Holy Spirit indwelling).
Hopefully this makes sense?
What I am saying is that when we die, our spirit leaves our body. In fact, the word death literally means separation. A believer's spirit separates from their physical body and immediately goes to be with the Lord. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:8 that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Right now, the Lord's with us but we're not with Him in heaven. But as soon as we are absent from the body, as soon as we experience death which means separation, as soon as our spirit leaves our body, we're in the presence of the Lord.
There's no "soul sleep." There are no in-between phases. Paul says I'd rather be out of this body and present with the Lord. But in the meantime, while we're here, we live by faith. We live by the Spirit of God!
As far as heaven being man, I know nothing about that. I've never heard that before. Heaven is a place, not a person.
Now, though, Paul says the fact that they are saved does not mean he can call them spiritual people. They are not living as spiritual people. They are still living as if they were of the flesh. Paul compares them to a person stuck in infancy, who should have matured enough by now to be ready for the solid food of deeper Christian teaching. Instead, they're still on a newborn's all-milk diet. This is not an entirely unique problem, as the writer of Hebrews chastised his readers for a similar weakness ( Hebrews 5:11-14). Instead of living in the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit and according to God's wisdom about spiritual things, the Corinthian Christians are still behaving as if they were mere, unspiritual human beings ( 1 Corinthians 3:1-2).
We are the temple of God the Holy Spirit. When we are born again, he comes to indwell in our hearts and He is Our Teacher; if we will ask Him to teach us? It requires Bible study, praying, and practicing quietness so we can hear the Holy Spirit's still small voice.
He has milk, manna and meat. Scripture says to desire the pure milk. A believer that thinks they don't actually have to read the Bible, or attend church to learn: are carnal, live for fleshly pleasures: video games, beer parties, etc.
Jesus is not fire insurance against hell. He paid it ALL on the Cross and died for our personal sin debts. Watch The video, The Passion of the Christ, directed by Mel Gibson.
All this gets sorted out: Matthew 25:32-46 by Jesus Christ. His Bema Seat Judgment occurs before New Jerusalem. For rewards, or no rewards.
Live for Jesus every day.
Mishael
I am not sure if you are truly seeking an answer to John 3:13 (your original question), or if you are passing on what you believe to be the answer?
I have read through your post several times trying to figure out what you are trying to say. Maybe I am just misunderstanding what you are saying but I am having a hard time coming up with the same understanding. What you are saying seems foreign to me. Sorry I couldn't be more help to answer your original question!
When we die, our souls return to God the Father, not to Jesus.
( Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
May I gently remind you of something that I think you are missing. You are telling Laura that the soul when it dies returns to God, not to Jesus.
Perhaps you are not a believer in the Trinity; God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), God the Holy Spirit. They are three in one, not three different persons. When one closes his eyes here on earth in death, they will immediately open them again and be looking into the face of their Savior, Jesus, the Son of God. Absent from the body, present with the Lord. You cannot separate the Trinity into three different persons, because there is only one God and He is the three in one.
You said: "They are three in one, not three different persons."
See, what prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
1 John 5:v. 7 - There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father (GOD, the Father), the Word (the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language), but a Person - the Comforter): and these three are One.
JESUS said: I and my Father are One- John 10:v.30. Two distincts Persons, but both are One.
Concerning the Person of the Holy Spirit (he is not a ghost as is written in English language), JESUS said: John 16:v.12-15: - 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when HE, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE will guide you into all truth: for HE shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for He shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Matthew 11:v.27 - No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son,
and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
I thought the soul is our body of flesh.
Ezekiel 18:4 ....the soul that sinneth it SHALL DIE.
I think you are wrong on 2 counts:
1) God says the spirit returns to Him, not to Jesus or the Holy spirit.
( Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
2) The trinity is not Bible doctrine. The Bible names these 3 but nowhere does it mention or commit to a trinity.
What else do you think about Bible mystics?
Do you know Earl? He said the same thing to Sissy about Ez 18:4, Small world.
Earl Bowman - in Reply
Sissy, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
This body (soul) of flesh we now live in can never inherit the next life.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine...... the soul that sinneth it shall die.
More should be discussed between the spirit and the soul.
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