Bible Discussion Thread

Brother Earl.

You quoted:

" Brother S Spencer, I have not found anywhere in scripture that describes the cherub as being anything other than flaming swords (the word of God) of fire and the glory of God."

End quote.

Earl it seems to me you did find a scripture!! " The one I pasted!! I never gave an interpretation on it, You did!!

All I did was copy and paste it to Chris answering hi question.

And you came along and NAILED IT!!

Here's the pasted verse I used earlier pulled out of Ezekiel 28:12-18.

( Ezekiel 28:14.""THOU ART THE ANOINTED CHERUB"" that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.)

Incase one missed it, He's called a cherub again in Ezekiel 28:16.

YOU NAILED IT!! And disbelieve your own interpretation.

Look at Ezekiel 28:12-18. With that layed out detailed description how can you not take it literal!!

You said you have not found anywhere in scripture that describes the cherub as being anything other than flaming swords (the word of God) of fire and the glory of God."

Look at Ezekiel 28:18. .......I BRING FORTH A FIRE FROM THE MIDST OF THEE, IT SHALL DEVOUR THEE, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

"" So I suppose God is going to bring fire upon ( THE WORD OF GOD ) and DEVOUR it and bring it to ashes upon the earth?

You don't believe in a literal Satan, Oseas believes Satan seduced Eve but you guys agree with one another.

Of all the Amillennialist on this site you can't find 2 that agree on anything! But most of you claim being Spirit led.

People be careful of what's being presented to you and study scripture.

God bless.

S spencer Interesting point how can so many people have so many different interpretations from same spirit, and have different outcomes on same point. Every body says Holy spirit tells them, aren't scripture from Holy spirit inspired by men of God, thats been the problem with the Christian church since the time of Paul. Make no mistake paul dealt with the same thing this situation is where all denominations developed. I have watched assemblies of christians divide over this, I don't believe it pleases the Father. Food for thought. Lets endeavor to build understanding.

Amen Sister Dianne.

We ourselves find ourselves on the wrong side of a opinion or atleast have at one time. It's called growth.

The only barrier to the truth is to think you already has it! The Holyspirit didn't just equipped us with gifts, he equipped us with fruit. Something over looked!

But we are warned to examine fruit.

Matthew 7:15-16. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

In so many ways I think we see a sifting of wheat.

At the beginning of the Coronavirus outbreak you seen a Gathering to the Lord but many has turned back! Reminds me of

1 John 2:19. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. We live in a Satan controlled world and he have his ministers as well!

PEOPLE LIKE RICHARD ESTRADA. is no threat! He might help manifest people like himself. The ones we have to mark is those who draw people away from truth. Not so much in having a different eschatology or certain belief. But beware of those who tries to lure you away by the flesh, Even using the bible most interesting topics, You see agreeing with your eschatology doesn't cause me to accept Christ. Have you noticed a thread with Love your neighbor or Salvation never last long. THE ABSENCE OF LOVE BRINGS CONVICTION!!

There's nothing wrong with Conviction!! Conviction brings repentance. But if you're not led by the Spirit of truth then there's no conviction and no repentance. That's what we have seen lately.

God bless you and all you do.

Brother S Spencer, I BELIEVE in a literal Satan.

I Believe God made Satan from the beginning as Satan; not a cherub that had never sinned and was in the presence of God and then sinned.

Earl question How can Our God Who Is Light and in Him is no darkness at all and pure love and perfect healer, and author of life want to create a being like satan who's characteristics are hate death destruction misery, and oblivion. Scripturally that does not add up, but again, that's my understanding. God Bless Our enemy in the scriptures has many names or descriptions as to how he worked throughout time, His title in the very beginning was lucifer.

Earl I believe originally Satan was Lucifer and wanted to be like the most High, due to His transgression Lucifer became satan or the devil. My reason God created all life and beings with freedom of will, including angels if you decide not to do His will that is on you, but the true God will never overstep freedom of will, if He would why didn't He stop Adam and Eve just something to consider, God want people to love Him because they want to not because they have to, besides the benefit package is dynamite. Giving you my perspective.

Sister Dianne, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS grace.

God CANNOT be SOVEREIGN and man have FREE WILL, it's impossible. Man would be able to CHANGE what God predestinated.

There have been billions of people that have been born and died, if man has free will why didn't at least one free will himself to NOT SIN.

Man makes hundreds of choices every day, but ever choice you make has a CAUSE and that cause is God:

Ephesians 1:11 In whom we also have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the PURPOSE OF HIM who worketh ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS WILL.

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that WORKETH IN YOU both to WILL and DO of his good pleasure.

You are born again by the word of God.

This is part of being born again: you AGREE with God; that you do nothing of yourself, all is OF GOD, he shares his glory with NO ONE.

He causes you to believe, He causes you to understand that it is his faith not yours, He causes you to repent, He causes you to LOVE.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only to BELIEVE ON HIM, but to also suffer for his sake;

Philippians 3:9 And being found in HIM, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the FAITH OF CHRIST, the righteousness which is OF GOD by faith.

Romans 2:4 ....Not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit WITHIN YOU, and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and ye shall KEEP my judgements, ans DO THEM.

NO FREE WILL in those scriptures.

Living IN CHRIST becomes quite simple when you are born of TRUTH.

Earl You state that man makes choices everyday and that choice is God, does the person who murders ,steals , commits adultery is that choosing God, statements don't add up with context and context is mankind can choose by his will to do Gods Word or not. Just saying.

Sister Diane, one of your comments implied you study the New Testament more than the Old Testament.

On of the greatest truths of God's sovereignty and man foolish worldly wisdom that he possess FREE WILL is in Isaiah 10:5-23

Isaiah 10:5 O Assyrian the rod of MINE anger, and the staff in THEIR hand is MINE indignation.

God is using a nation and it's people for his judgements.

Isaiah 10:6 For I WILL SEND him against a hypocritical nation, and against the people of MY WRATH will I give him a charge, to take a prey, and to tread them down like mire of the streets.

These people are going to kill, possibly rape, steal, and destroy other people. And God is the one CAUSING them to do so.

Isaiah 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath PERFORMED HIS whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will PUNISH the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.

Isaiah 10:13 For he saith, By the strength of mine hand I HAVE DONE IT, and by my wisdom, for I am prudent ...

Notice that God didn't say he was going to punish the king because he killed, and stole and raped and destroyed other people; but, God was going to punish the king because he took credit and thought it was his works.

God is no different today, he uses people to do HIS WORK and then punishes them because they took credit; NOT KNOWING ALL WORKS ARE OF GOD were are just the axe in GOD'S HAND.

Isaiah 10:15 Shall the axe BOOST ITSELF against him (GOD) that heweth therewith?

Earl Not denying what God did but why did He do that, wasn't it to deal witha stiffnecked and unbelieving nation the one that He called out and seperated for the purpose of eventually bringing us our Messiah. I'm not debating with you concerning How God will will prevail but up until the end your not going to convince me that everything that is going on in the world now is Gods Will. Heres Food For thought bible says adversary is god of this world notice little g but in the End the Council of our God Will Stand.

Earl Why would God in the old Testament give command to do the things that you stated but in the Gospels and new testament say the opposite, now you might say God can do anything He Wants but thats not true God cannot lie and God cant go against His own words. World conditions change man changes God Does not. Again John10: 9 Thief steal kill destroy Jesus Christ more abundant life. John 10:10.

The reason I work the church epistles is because that is the specific instruction to the church of God in the age of Grace that does not mean there is not tons of other instruction in the rest of Gods Word to learn from. Another favorite section are Psalms, very inspirational and proverbs very instructional on practical ways to act and think. Now something sir you said that absolutely dead on 2 Peter 1:20+21, I'll add 2 Timothy 2:15 and 3: 16 + 17. I can learn a lot from all scripture, the Scripture or revelation Given to Paul is specific Instruction to the Church which you and I belong. The church epistles is where you find specific attributes on how to put on the mind of Christ. I do believe in my heart we areon the same page though. God Bless We both aim to build up not tear down.

Earl Heres food for thought Gods will says for the body of Christ to build up each other than Why Did the apostle Paul write the church epistles to explain and show how to walk better spiritually if when were born again we do it automatically reason is when we get born again spiritually that doesn't mean are thinking which is where our natural will emanates is changed automatically that requires renewing our minds to scripture and doing it making our will or what we desire to do Gods will which is His word. Also I understand no matter what Gods will, is going to get accomplished in His time, I do understand this. God Bless

Earl Also are you saying once we are born again we don't commit sin, or break fellowship.

Sister Dianne, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS knowledge.

There are TWO SINS:

The SIN of the flesh, that will continue in us as long as we reside in this body of flesh.

The blood of Christ covers these sins; God no longer sees these sins.

The SIN of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The word of God was written BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of men: but holy men OF GOD spake as they were MOVED BY THE HOLY GHOST.

To blaspheme the Holy Spirit means NOT BELIEVING what he says or was written by him. To NOT BELIEVE is the only unpardonable sin in THIS AGE AND THE AGE TO COME

Matthew 12:32 ......speakeh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

When you; by the works of the Spirit, BELIEVE the words of God, you are Born Again By The Words Of God. You no longer SIN AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT or blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (the unpardonable) sin.

This is the only way scripture lines up and does not contradict itself, because the flesh never quits sinning,

Earl THats right we do not sin in the spirit the sin is in the flesh, in my heart I believe we are thinking the same way but communication is challenging brother.

Earl in my heart I believe we understand the same thing brother but communicating it different. God Bless Forward with the Gospel

Brother Earl I have had children they were never totally under my will why because over time they took in different information then made up there own minds what they by there will would believe. I do also Know and Believe that God and His word are His will but the only man in the history of the world that walked with Him perfectly by the Spirit was His Only begotten Son our Saviour. Even after were born again we commit sin which is broken fellowship, why because we follow our senses. Read Romans 7:14-25. That's why we needed a Saviour because God in His Absolute will and knowledge knew man was going to blow it. If I did not explain this clear enough my apologies sir. I will also end discussion with all respect God Bless

Sister Dianne, May CHRIST IN GRACE us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Why did Jesus not sin.

He tells us:

John 5:30 I can of mine own self DO NOTHING: as I hear, I judge, and my judgement is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father that hath sent me.

Jesus knew and believed that whatever he was doing, it was the Father doing it THROUGH him.

Jesus tells us the same thing:

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me you can DO NOTHING.

The TRUTH IS whatever you are doing right now, IS THE WILL OF GOD.

He knows EXACTLY how to bring and conform each of us to the likeness if Christ. It's HIS WORKS.

We are the POT, he is the POTTER.

Pots are made to hold something:

CHRIST IN YOU

Earl Correct Jesus Christ always did the fathers will never said He didn't I stated we who believe In Him don't always that was my point. I'm trying to figure out why people pull things out of context, in the garden of Gethsemane, He asked the Father is there any other way, Father said nope then Jesus said not my will but thine be done, God did not make force manipulate coerce or trick His Son to do anything He did Gods Word by remembering, then listening then applying it is written, all the things written concerning Himself. God did not make a Robot In Jesus Christ.

Sister Dianne, God is SOVEREIGN. His will IS BEING DONE on earth as in heaven.

Jesus, Satan and all of God's Creation are ROBOTS. Everyone is fulfilling the WORDS THAT WERE SPOKEN BEFORE the foundations of the world.

God knows the end of all thing from the beginning of all things because he SPOKEN THEM INTO BEING.

Satan didn't have FREE WILL and REBEL against God, He is FULFILLING God words.

If GOD isn't doing everything through those he made, then he is not SOVEREIGN and is not GOD.

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they BE AGREED?

Just because God is all knowing and may choose to know future events and just because we have limited comprehension of free will vs all knowing doesn't automatically mean that everything is a robot. We all have freewill. Even in heaven angels had freewill which explains how satan defied God and fell down. God has limited satan's power, but has allowed him to tempt and test others. Just because God allows something doesn't mean he causes it or wants things to happen. For example disasters. This is a fallen world. Adam and Even didn't have to defy God and sin, but they did. Some of that consequence has affected us, like pain and suffering in the world. God can also live in the moment like us and can change His mind. Just read the Bible where He changed His mind about destroying a city. God could have made robots of He wanted to but He loved us enough to let us choose- choose whether to love and follow Him or not. If you're a parent is it more meaningful to you if you forced your children to say 'I love you' or is it more meaningful if they say it out of their own freewill? If you understand this, then perhaps God values love and genuineness through freewill also.

Amen Sir

I don't believe all of creation are Robots.

Diane and Earl; just wanted to add to the interesting discussion. The Sovereign and Just God of the universe has designed the perfect blend of a spiritual economy of freewill agency which allows man and angels to make behavioral choices which make them responsible for their eternal fate in heaven or hell. Yet, He does not allow those personal choices to override or interfere with His overall divine will.

God is infinitely merciful and fair. He would never hold people responsible at the Great White Throne Judgment is they did not have free will ( Rev. 20:11-15), nor would there be there be the Judgment Seat of Christ ( Matt. 25:31-46).

Finally, God made angels and man freewill agents because love is not genuine if it is not by choice. God wants us to freely choose to love Him the way He chose to love us in sending His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ!

Much love to all!

Leon I agree Our God want loved by free will and gave us love by His free will His Son

Earl So everything and everybody is Controlled by the True God. Don't get upset I'm just asking.

EARL BOWMAN

Yes, correct; GOD is in control of all things, NOTHING random happens.

Me too Earl , he was created for a purpose , he is what he is and always has been , he is the tempter , it's his job .

Brother Earl,

We have to take scripture as it is when given so plainly. We have made a mess out of the word of God by what we force in scripture, This has become a hobby for some and a competition for others. How can the word go forward with power when we can't get it right? In the secular world we condemn the liberal but we welcome it in the fellowship, And condemn those who try and defend the truth. We're to casual with handelling the word.

The last month or so it has been nothing but a platform to showcase ones self whether there views or their outstanding display.

The original thread was Chris asking:

Now quoting Chris.

"Was Satan a angel in the beginning and fought for God our fathers throne."

End quote.

And my answer was:

I believe the scripture actually says I will be ( LIKE ) the most high. here's scripture:

End quote.

It had nothing to do with defining a cherub. or thew many other views that entered the thread.

You see we quit helping others and seem more concerned about pitching our views.

Those who was gifted to teach shouldn't fade away and let the word be mishandled. The Apostles didn't do it and neither did the Lord!

THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THE TRUTH PLEASE STAND!!

YOU SMITE THE SHEPPARD AND THE SHEEP WILL SCATTER IT LITERALLY HAPPENED 2000 YEARS AGO. AND THAT'S WHAT IS GOING ON TODAY. Gods word is being smitten. That should concern us. Not the second coming or our wonderful outwardly display of vain holiness.

God bless.

Brother Jesse:

You said we have to take scripture as it is given to us so plainly.

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tarsus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart (prince of Tarsus) is lifted up, and thine (prince of Tarsus) heart is lifted up, an thou hast said, I am a God, and I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet that art a MAN, and not God, though thou (prince of Tarsus) Set thine heart AS THE heart of God.

Ezekiel 28 12 Son of man, take up a LAMENTATION upon the king of Tarsus..

From verse 1 thru verse 19 God is taking to a man, the King of Tarsus.

ALL MEN have the same problem; they want to EXALT THEMSELVES ABOVE GOD.

ALL MEN START OUT AS (children of) SATAN.

Brother Earl.

Part 1.

I'm sure we both know what I mean when I say literal. We know God don't have feathers as seen hear. Psalms 91:4.

We use good biblical hermeneutics.

To get the scope of Ezekiel addressing TYRE you have to start at Ezekiel 26. on through Ezekiel 28.

By the time we get to Ch 28 Ezekiel is shifting from the city of Tyre to the King of Tyre "the ruler." But notice he calls him the " PRINCE OF TYRE " That would be significant because it suggests that the Prince of Tyre has an authority over him.

The passages in Ezekiel 28 we see in verse 2. Ezekiel is addressing the "PRINCE OF TYRE."

By the time you get to Ezekiel 28:12. He's addressing the ( KING OF TYRE. )

Here He's addressing what's behind the prince of TYRE. ( The demonic influence of Lucifer. )

Ezekiel 28:2. Son of man, say unto the

( PRINCE OF TYRUS, )Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Ezekiel 28:12.

Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the ( KING OF TYRUS,) and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

The king of Tyre shown below here in verse 13 says the king of Tyre been in Eden, ( The Garden of God )

I doubt the prince of Tyre have been there!!

Ezekiel 28:13.

THOU HAST BEEN IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Part 2. Coming.

I believe we're born Children of Adam.

Sold under sin and possibly in a sense Children of the Devil.

God bless.

Brother S Spencer, are you saying because he use the word prince it has a different meaning than the word king.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm not understanding what you are saying.

What is you understanding of a lamentation.

Are you saying because he use the word prince he is addressing Satan.

Do you think Satan is a fallen angel, maybe that would help me if I know what you believe.

Brother Earl.

I believe prince of Tyrus, used in Ezekiel 28:2. he's talking to the king of Tyrus. "The ruler of Tyrus"

But in Ezekiel 28:12-19. He addresses him King of Tyrus and broadens his indictment and put him in places he has never been. I believe he's talking to the source behind the king of Tyrus. Carefully go through the verses.

Examples:

Here you see the Lord talking to the unclean spirits in a man.

Mark 5:7-9. And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

Here's a link to scripture where Gabriel is fighting with Demonic forces of Persia. and next Grecia.

Daniel 10:13-21.

Earl explain to me how every person is born a child of satan, I am born flesh and blood of my mother and father i.e. seed of my father flesh, then when I became born again I became spiritually a son of God spiritually, but I am still flesh and blood child of my earthly parents. Yes I understand being born dead in trespasses and sins, but that does not make someone literally a child of satan. Also understand we were born in the world according to ephesians without God and without hope and were by nature children of wrath. But that does bot mean we were born children of satan, you've Got to show me a lot of scripture to back that up. There are people who Got born again of the adversary, but not everybody flesh and blood is born comes out that way.

Sister Dianne, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR, the spirit that now worketh in the CHILDREN of disobedience:

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we had our conversation in times past in the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the CHILDREN OF WRATH, even as others.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect (mature): yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the PRINCES OF THIS WORLD, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the PRINCES OF THIS WORLD knew, for had they know it, they would not have crucified the prince of glory.

1 John 3:8 He that COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVIL (children); for the devil SINNETH FROM THE BEGINNING.....

1 John 3:10 In this the CHILDREN OF GOD are manifest, and the CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL: whosoever doth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loved not his brother.

Acts 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou CHILD of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, will thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord.

John 8:44 Ye are (children) of your FATHER THE DEVIL .....

Earl I did state that there were places where there were children of the devil dealt with and I understand that we were born dead in trespasses and sin. But to be born of something or some one cannot be reversed thats why Jesus Christ said to the religious leaders you will die in your sin. Also explain to me how he could say to peter get behind me satan, and later on Peter is born again, satan is the influence evil, thought, power or influence. I have known people who worshipped the devil and Got Born Again because they did not believe in their Heart innermost part of their being what they were doing. When jesus Christ told the religous leaders you will die in your sin its because they committed the unforgivable sin. You have my understanding. There are lost people out there that worship Satan but do not believe He is the Devil, and get born again. I'm not arguing please understand that sir not my intenton and your priviledge to disagree.

Hello Earl,

I don't recall ever saying that? Can you point me to the post where I stated that, or what we were talking about. Thanks Earl!

Brother Jesse; I'M SORRY, I was responding to Brother S Spencer. I typed your name by mistake.

Well written brother S. Spencer. And I'm NOT the originator (of the same name) of that question about 'Satan fighting for God's Throne'.

So I'm here Standing For The Truth!! As I read these comments coming 'out of left field', I shudder & wonder how much more can the Word of God be mishandled & corrupted.

I also see that Gnosticsm is alive & well in the 21st Century, appearing in its many forms; essentially, that " The various groups within it emphasize personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) above the accepted teachings, traditions, and authority of the Church (specifically the Teachings of our Lord & His servants, the apostles). It was an evil that the apostles had to constantly grapple with (1 John is typically a letter to combat a number of heresies that appeared at that time) & it continued through the ages where the revealed Word was no longer sufficient to satisfy spiritual hunger, but 'extra wisdom or revelation' was needed to give believers a 'fuller proper' understanding of the Word. And of course, anything added to the Word will most certainly deform it, making the Word useless, both for understanding & for its intended revelation.

Most of the regulars here will be able to see through such spurious interpretations, but it's for the unlearned, seeking ones I feel most concerned for, & that this Site which has undoubtedly been of great benefit to many, doesn't become a breeding ground for error. To that end, it is good to respond to the seeker of Truth but to avoid arguments with ministers of falsehood, which inevitably grips each one of us in an endless loop of arguments, ultimately giving no agreement & engendering un-Christianlike feelings. And we see evidence of this already. Keep up the good work brother & every blessing.