Bible Discussion Thread

We are evil ,Genesis ch6 v5 and ch8 v21 , these are God's words . Also 1st Samuel ch16 , 2nd Kings ch6 v33 and Job Ch2 V10 . Matthew ch7 v11 , Mark ch7 v21 and John Ch2 v24&25 . The serpent isn't some kind of supernatural evil being , Jesus likens himself to the brassen serpent , if you know what that's about , why would Jesus do that ? The serpent is sinfull flesh , the brassen serpent is the fore shadow of Jesus . Jesus lived a sinless life even though he was made of the same sinfull flesh that we are , sinfull flesh was crucified , Jesus was victorious over his own sinfull flesh , this is his victory . Death is the wages if sin , Jesus couldn't stay dead because he was victorious over his own sinfull flesh in that he did no sin .James Ch1 v 12-15 . It's very simple . Why can't we accept responsibility for our sinfullness , if a murderer claimed in court that the devil made him do it , do we let him off ? We execute people , do we do that because we believe the devil made them do it or because they chose themselves to do it ? Should we execute people if they are not totally responsible for their actions ? We don't kill the devil , we kill a human . Is that any kind of justice ?

I'm not sure how all these verses prove how evil we all are? But salvation in Christ is spoken of in detail in 2 Corinthians 5 (whole chapter) and in other places in the New Testament. But let me deal with the first quote you gave which says:

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5

Now Noah found an exception with God. So, it is noted that he was a just man and perfect in his generations ( Genesis 6:7-9). In fact, he was the only man worth saving.

I won't go into all the other verses you mentioned because some of them are the words of kings (not God) and some of them relate to man in general (not all men).

The brazen serpent was made so if men looked at it after being bitten he would not die. If men look to the cross and unto Jesus that man will not die. That is why Jesus likened himself to be like the brazen serpent.

Jesus was not made of sinful flesh. But the flesh is not that important. It is the remission of blood that atones for sin. Jesus as all of us, had His Fathers blood. A child is normally born with his father's blood. That is why they prove paternity with blood test.

Because Jesus had God's blood He was sinless and He shed his sinless blood to atone for our sins. This is the victory. It had little to do with his sinless flesh. Jesus had no sin. He kept himself through His whole life. He was therefore the perfect sacrifice.

Jesus couldn't stay dead because He was perfect and God gave Jesus power to lay down his life and take it up again.

We execute people for killing other people because God told us to in Genesis 9:6 "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

So, yes it is just to execute a man for killing another man.

I hope this helps you to understand.

Brother Robert, Christ FATHER is SPIRIT; Spirit has no blood. Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God. God's kingdom is the one's whose LIFE is in the Spirit, not in the blood. Christ came in the likeness of sinful flesh, life in the blood; he was crucified and shed is life blood for us. He was resurrected back to LIFE by SPIRIT. His resurrected body of flesh was not the same as the one crucified. Now flesh and bone, not flesh and blood. We also will have a new body of flesh and bone, with LIFE of SPIRIT, no longer life in the blood.

Who were the two others, that Jesus met , on the mount of transfiguration ? Moses & Elijah,.. now it's not biblical, but common sense , an the fact that no one buried Moses or Elijah, our Father took them both ,.. so I tend to believe, that Moses an Elijah will be the two witnesses,.. just me , an just a thought here ,..

Hello again Robert , I'm useless , I submitted before I had finished , please read Hebrews ch5 , the chapter tell us a lot about the human nature of Jesus before he ascended , especially ch5 verse8 :Though he were a Son , yet LEARNED HE OBEDIENCE by the things which he suffered ; Also Hebrews Ch 2 , the whole chapter but especially verses 9 onwards. Also Hebrews Ch2 ,all of it but especially verse 9 onwards : For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted , he is able to succour them that are tempted . All temptations are of the flesh ,all sins are of the flesh . Ergo Jesus was the same flesh as us . He was VICTORIOUS . He resisted all temptations .Hebrews Ch 4 verse 15 .

Hello Robert , thank you for your reply , it was interesting and help full to me . I am sorry , I don't think I made my point very well . I don't do this often . I was thinking about the fact that God says , in the verses that I quoted , that WE are evil . He doesn't say that we are week and can't resist temptation , He doesn't talk about the devil being evil and tempting us .He always blames us for our own sinfullness , so why do we think it's ok to blame the devil and his whiles and sneaky ways that ensnare us into sin ? If we blame the devil for leading us into sin then why do we punish people for sining ( breaking the law ) ? We execute people , that doesn't kill the devil , it just kills the person . I also believe that the New covenant in Christ negates the "eye for an eye " etc in the Old Testament . Basically , what I'm trying to say is that WE sin , it's not the devil's fault that we sin , it's ours . I'm not sure about Jesus having God's blood , Gods Spirit yes , that is correct , but blood I'm not sure about . The law of "sin brings death" could not apply to Jesus as he didn't ever sin . I believe that the phrase in Genesis is perfectly translated as : in dying thou shalt die . But I could be wrong about that . And the reason they die is not because the fruit is harmful , the act of eating it , not the act of touching it , the act of eating it is disobedience to God's command . Disobedience is sin . 1st John Ch 4 verses 2and3 , Christ was flesh , just like us . He could have sinned but didn't , that's his victory

Is it possible that the blood of man is cleansed and sanctified, while the heart is renewed day by day? you cannot have one without the other. Redemption is the redeeming of man through the blood of Christ! There can be no forgiveness without the shedding of it. This is the law of God! no more sacrifice of blood of bulls and goats. Jesus did it once and for all!

That is a lovely idea Fred , I think that you think more of people than I do , Gods mercy is fresh every day , His mercy endures forever , there is no good in man , even when we know the Truth and are saved , if we can manage not to sin in deed then we sin in words and if by some amazingness we don't sin with our mouth we sin in thought . I know this is true of me .

TNT Question you seem to just think man kind is absolutely no good, but John 3:16 defies that because verse 17 says For God sent not His Son to Condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved. Gods intention is save as many as believe, he knows the condition of us before we believed, that is the purpose of his only begotten son in 1 Timothy 2:3 His will is to have all men saved. Gods will is always good that doesn't mean man is going to accept. God also knew there would be people born who would believe hence us. Some things to think about.

Paul talks about going on unto perfection. In the Hebrews, He refers to the labor of love, leaving behind the doctrine of Christ That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises. In spite of who we think we are ,God looks upon us through Jesus. When you come to that place, u will only begin to know the promises we have in and through Jesus! Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The complexity of living in a sinful world in a sinful condition, understanding what the world needs is impossible for us to know!

Abiding in Christ will definitely answer all the worlds problems. It will also convict others of sin. So regardless of how you may structure the gospel, it will always be the truth,! You can change Jesus words, but you will never change man sinful condition! This is one of the reasons unbelievers hate the believer! A true believer will convict you of sin!