Bible Discussion Thread

Hallelujah to the Almighty God of Abraham!

The first covenant God made was with Himself for Abraham. The second covenant was between God and Abraham, that all males would be circumcised. God knew best to have babies circumcised. My dad was circumcised as an adult. My mom said he was very uncomfortable after it until he healed. She also said that he said that sex was more pleasurable uncircumcised. Maybe God commanded circumcism in order to help men be faithful or considerate of their wives by reducing the pleasure after circumcism. Don't know if this is the case for most men who are circumcised as adults after they have already sexually active. Interesting that other cultures with a low view of women circumcise girls in order that they do not feel much pleasure in intercourse. God's way is always better.

I can tell from this verse that Abraham loved Ishmael and wanted him to be included in the covenant, too. I think he laughed because he realized his and Sarah's age and knew that it would take a miracle for them to have a child. I don't think that he didn't believe God's promise. He just found it humorous. God did not punish him for laughing. He knew Abrahams heart. Ishmael's 12 princes are said to have seeded the Arab nations. Interesting, because that makes the Arab people Semitic if they trace their line to Ishmael or any of the 6 children Abraham fathered with Keturah after Sarah died. It seems that Jews want to own the sole right to be considered Semitic. Truth is, any person descended from Shem is Semitic and anyone descended from Eber is Hebrew, not just the Israelites. Something to think about. maybe broadening our ideas about the people that sprang from that area.

Interesting that He was making the covenant with Abraham, not with Abraham and Sarah. Does this mean that God saw Abraham and Sarah as one inn Abraham, harkening back to Adam and Eve in Genesis?

Believing and Faith It is interesting how many times it is said that there was spiritual faith in the gospels and old testament when in galatians 3:23+24 before faith came kept under the law spiritual faith came with what was accomplished by Jesus Christ and given the birthday of the church on Pentecost. Before pentecost a person could believe God and it was counted unto them for righteousness Abraham but that is different from spiritual faith of Jesus Christ. This is a case where the translators took the liberty to use the word pistis for either believing or spiritual faith at there liberty or according to there theology. Also Jesus Christ fulfilled and ended the law which ushered in the age of Grace which we live in and are able to walk in the spiritual law of love agape by our daily believing walk in the faith of Jesus Christ.

It seems that God worked differently in the Old Testament in setting a people apart for Himself than in the New Testament.

However, I believe that true faith in God as He revealed Himself in both Testaments is equivalent. When God appeared to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, Ezekiel Jeremiah, etc. and spoke with with them, they believed the True God they saw and spoke with, even ate with (as Abraham did). God decides who's faith is "saving faith" regardless of the time frame one lives in. This is not to diminish the knowledge of Jesus and the gospel message. Those who hear the gospel and believe it have "saving faith". Those who haven't heard the gospel due to living prior to Jesus' advent will be judged on belief in the True God as He revealed Himself to them in that time. The sacrifice of Jesus reaches back in time to the beginning, just as it is effective now and into the future.it is for all time.

The two marks defining the people of God (Israel) were Circumcision & giving of the Law. No other people or nation received those directives from God ( Genesis 17:10,11; Leviticus 26:46). In regards to the Law, they were to learn God's requirements for a familial relationship to Him, to their society, & in their personal lives. For circumcision, they were to be marked out in a way distinct from any other (different from any body markings, cuttings or disfigurement of the heathen, even if there was an accidental loss of an organ or an appendage). And of course, the Apostle Paul spoke of this in Romans 2:25-29, connecting the two directives together - that one couldn't be without the other to the Jew - and since the Law couldn't be kept perfectly, true circumcision then must be of the heart & not of the flesh to count before God. I wonder whether what was given as a Mark of distinction & also for hygiene purposes, was also to alert the Jew that this seemingly unnatural act (of circumcision) was to point him to what the apostle now learned as a believer.

And this practise of circumcision continued, not only within Judaism, but also Islam. Yet as much as Islamists (Arabs) might have their heritage back to Seth, yet "in Isaac shall thy seed be called" ( Genesis 21:12 & Romans 9:6-8). And this rejection of Ishmael by God will always keep those adherents at odds with the "seed of Isaac", & will most likely figure in those awful days of devastation that lie ahead.

Hello Chris, Great reply!

I would like to add that circumcision was a command for all of Israel, not only Jews. But by the time of Jesus, Israel had been scattered across the world along with many Jews, but in the holy land, mostly Jews lived there. The Israelites were people of the Law and circumcision before Christ. But they did not have to be bound by these through faith in Jesus. the law of grace set them free from the covenant of Law and circumcision Muhammed copied much from the Jewish faith and put himself and his followers under bondage to the Law when he could have lived free from this bondage if he had believed in Jesus, since salvation had already come into the world when Muhammed lived. Sad that he was deceived and led many down the wrong path. Part of the bondage of the Law makes one a slave to sin. The constant conflict, hatred, and killing that goes on between Jews and Muslims is a result of this bondage.

Well written, GiGi & I fully concur. Indeed, Muhammed did learn & absorb some things from Judaism, but he also had a 'Christian' wife (one of several other wives of varying persuasions), & it's our understanding that this 'Christian' woman wasn't a true believer & had her beliefs rooted in Roman Catholicsm or some off-shoot of it. So there was that influence that he also had. As well, with the plethora of apocryphal writings around, Muhammed appeared to glean much from the 'Gospel of Barnabas'. He rejected the four Gospels that we have (even as the Jews also reject), as certainly that would create problems for him. We see this in his beliefs, the rejecting of the crucifixion of Jesus (claiming rather, that God had placed a substitute on the Cross: Judas Iscariot?), yet believing that Jesus was one of the most holiest of prophets, Whom God had raised up to Heaven miraculously. And of course, there were many factual errors & absurdities in that spurious gospel that helped formulate his own writings, which he claimed came from Heaven.

With the misunderstanding, hence denial of the Triune God, his belief that he was prophesied to come as the next prophet, the rejection of the New Testament & apostolic writings, & obedience to the Laws of God, especially as those revealed in the Quran & the Hadith, ensured that Muhammed remained disconnected from the Truth & to be the leader of others believing this deception & going into a Christless eternity. So when we (in Pakistan) gave out books containing the Gospels we know & love, or of the lives of Abraham, his sons, David & the prophets (all whom Muslims consider as prophets), many eyes were opened for the first time as they read narratives that were not found in the Quran. And when those readers enquired before the Muslim clerics, one can only imagine the anger & furore that resulted. But the Word of God cannot be bound & will always bring liberty, joy & peace to all who call upon the Name of the LORD through His Son.

Chris

thank you for your reply, especially the additional information about Muhammed. I need to learn more about this since my oldest son just married a Muslim woman from Asia. She is kind-hearted and I am praying for her ehart to be softened to hear the truth of the gospel and believe.

Agreed. thank you for your reply