Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

David,

Agreed. I, too, know the Lord by experience and by what the Spirit leads me to learn from the Word and others. We are a community as believers that the Lord uses to help each other grow

Sister GiGi:

John 17:21 That they ALL MAY BE ONE, as thou Father art in me, and I in thee, that they may all be one in us ....

This says that whatever and however the Father and Son have existed since the beginning, is the way we will also exist, in them, forever.

Colossians 1:19 For it please the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth ALL in ALL.

You can have the doctrines of man, I will take the doctrines of WORD.

Gigi Take a look at 2 Peter 1:4 that's our new nature.

Hi David,

I did read the verse, it says that we are partakers of the divine nature. I take it that we are partakers in that we are in communion with God, not that we receive the divine nature as part of our essence. The Spirit has re-created in us a nature that is influenced and empowered by the Holy Spirit, one that is no longer an enemy of God, and this nature is counter to the sinful nature that still resides in us as long as we are alive in this live.

Gigi If that's what you believe we're saying the same thing we got our spiritual connection back

Good to agree on this.

Amen Sister GiGi.

Acts 1:11. Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Revelation 22:12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Revelation 22:20. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

God bless.

Dear Earl , I hope I've misunderstood you a little bit , does this mean that Christ is not going to come back to earth in a form that all flesh will see ? Does this mean that I have to keep living in this awful condemded world with all this horror and misery and cruelty without the hope that Christ is coming back soon to set up his Father's Kingdom on earth ? Oh Earl , the Kingdom to Come with Christ reigning over the earth from Jerusalem is the only thing that gets me out of bed on a morning with a smile on my face and joy in my heart !

Sister Sacha, Christ is going to stand on this earth in GLORIFIED FLESH. The Saints also who have been CREATED in the IMAGE of CHRIST, with the same GLORIFIED FLESH, as Christ are going to stand with Him, and together they (being made ONE, same BODY and same MIND) are going to JUDGE THE EARTH IN RIGHTEOUSNESS ( Isaiah 26:9).

Luke 24:9 Behold my hands and my feet, that it (glorified flesh) IS I MYSELF: handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me have.

1 Corinthians 15:39-41 ALL FLESH is not the SAME FLESH .....one celestial and one terrestrial .....

This is hard to wrap our minds around, Christ has a body that can exist IN MAN, or stand in the presents of man.

It's even harder to wrap our minds around the fact that we ALSO are going to have this SAME BODY.

This is what the thousand year reign with Christ is all about. The thousand years are not LITERALLY ONE THOUSAND YEARS, but one day (DAY OF THE LORD which has been happening now for two thousand years) is as a thousand years and a thousand years as on day ( 2 Peter 3:8).

Matthew 20:1-16 Christ went out at the first of the day (of the Lord) to call workers to his vineyard.

This would apply to all those that were apostles and received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

When they departed their terrestrial bodies they were given celestial bodies and they are still working in God's vineyard ( Revelation 10:11)( John 1:51)( Genesis 28:12).

Psalms 103:20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels ...

Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Luke 20:36 ...neither can the die anymore, for they are equal to the angels ...

For the last two thousand years (one day, God has been calling workers to work in God's vineyard vineyard; first in a terrestrial body and then in a celestial body.

You are a worker NOW in a terrestrial body; when you DEPART your terrestrial body, you will NEVER SEE DEATH, but CONTINUE being a worker in your CELESTIAL BODY. ( Revelation 20:6)

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

We have and live in the Holy promise. Stay blessed in His Holy Name Jesus Christ. Amen

Brother Earl may Christ bless us and increase us in His heavenly wisdom.

I have been reading many of your posts over the last 6 months and am in agreement with much of the what you have said as inspired by Him. Funny thing is that I had been meaning to to ask you the same thing that English Sachs said also. I believe 1 John 2:27 similar as God grants us more insight as we mature in Him. When I became a man I put away the childish things. Or more recently as when the day star rises in you.

Anyway, what about Act 1:9-11, I am still still believing that there will be some in flesh that repopulate the earth during His reign. Or in Zechariah where His feet will touch the mount and split the earth.

Also, believe in the resurrection of the just and unjust.

We could also put on in a moment and twinkling of and eye our celestial bodies and still be here like Christ on the road to Emmanus. Very soon the heavens will be rolled back like a scroll!

Mainly just wanted to know what you thought about Acts 1:9-11.

May we all have great patience and love for one another as we move forward and upward in Christ!

May God bless you brother Earl

Brother Kevin, You can have all kinds of bible dictionaries and concordances and translations. But, because so much of scripture is signified, these don't fully help.

The ONLY way to understand God's word is for him to TEACH YOU.

The word of God and the HOLY SPIRIT is all you need.

1 John 2:27

Never cease asking for him to GIVE you the FULLNESS of the SPIRIT.

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Brother Kevin, Christ is reigning NOW, the kingdom of God came when Christ was RESURRECTED, so, YES, the earth is being populated during his REIGN. His reign want end until he has SUBDUED all things to himself ( 1 Corinthians 15:25-28). In this AGE he is only CHOOSING and CAUSING the ones to be priest ( Revelation 5:10) in his kingdom to BELIEVE ( Philippians 1:29). The feast of the weeks is the shadow in the Old Testament, the wheat and rye were harvested first (it was only a small portion of the crop that would be harvested that year). You see references to wheat in Christ parables (we are the WHEAT).

When the second resurrection has happened, all the inhabitants of the world from Adam to the resurrection of the dead, will be raised back into their terrestrial flesh. They are going to be judged and brought to truth. It appears from some of the prophets words that this judgement could last a long time. Man may once again live in terrestrial flesh to be hundreds of years old, So, yes, the earth could be repopulating during this AGE. In the Old testament the feast of the tabernacles was when the remainder of the harvest was brought IN (after the WHEAT was harvested). We are the WHEAT (first resurrection) those in the second resurrection are the remaining harvest, to be harvested in the feast of the in gathering or feast of the tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:4 And his (Christ) feet shall stand in that day (Day of the Lord) on the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half the mountain shall move toward the north, and half the mountain toward the south.

This prophecy ALSO must be spiritually discerned.

When Christ in his ministry stood on the mount of Olives, this became reality, but the mountain and valley are, SIGNIFIED, and not not literal. Mountains and valleys and hills are often SIGNIFIED as PEOPLE

Brother Kevin:

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Psalms 114:4 The mountains (people) skip like rams, and the little hills (people) as lambs.

Isaiah 55:12 ...the mountains (people) and the hills (people) shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees (people) of the field shall clap their hands.

Half (not literally half, but signified) of the people will move to the north (not literally north, but signified). God in this AGE is not saving everyone, so some will be vessels of HONOUR and SOME vessels of DISHONOUR ( Romans 9:21).

Brother Kevin, may CHRIST IN US grave us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

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When you are studying, it is of necessity to make sure you are assigning the pronouns their correct personage.

Often it helps to write the verse or verses and replace the pronoun with the noun they represent. I have taken chapters and done this, often getting half way through the chapter and find the noun I was using does't fit, having to go back (repent) and correct my understanding of that pronoun. The scriptures CANNOT disagree with themselves. Much of the WORD is hidden in parables and metaphors, often the word being used has different meaning (signifies something else) than what one would defined in a dictionary. The physical mind pictures things that are physical, the Spirit guiding you causes your mind to see the hidden meaning. In the Old Testament God lived in THE CLOUD that covered the tabernacle; was inside the Holy of Hollies. If that being the shadow then the TRUE (that casting the shadow) would now be MAN (the true TEMPLE OF GOD), being COVERED by God; and MAN now being the Holy Of Hollies, were God dwells. Our physical mind pictures heaven as a physical place with huge mansions and gates of pearls and streets of gold, but the hidden meaning cannot be physically seen so the Spirit has to cause you to see. A GLORIFIED BODY does't need a physical house, or streets or gates. Heaven then becomes SIGNIFIED

Acts 1:9 And when HE (CHRIST) had spoken these things, while they (the disciples with him) beheld, he (Christ) was taken up; and a cloud (the new TEMPLE, MAN Colossians 1:27) received him (Christ now in the glorified body as the Holy Spirit) out of their (disciples) sight.

Acts 1:10 And while they (disciples with him) looked steadfastly into (physical) heaven (the disciple had not yet been given the Holy Spirit to understand Christ ascended INTO MAN) as he went up, behold two men (messengers of God in glorified bodies Hebrews 13:2) stood by them in white apparel;

Sorry, Earl, but your statements about most of the Word being allegorical or prophetic with hidden meaning smacks of the way rabbis have dissected the Torah using the Talmud since the days of captivity in Babylon and of the heresy of the Gnostics who sought "hidden" or "secret" meaning and knowledge in Scripture and other sources. Be careful of claiming more than what is plainly revealed in Scripture, especially since there are many people who view these posts. We should desire to relay the truth of the Word of God plainly spoken by the prophets and the apostles. Jesus even said that God's Word is truth, and that the truth shall set you free. "Babes" take things in a more literal fashion that adults, not seeing more in what they hear than what is plain. We are to become like them, as Jesus instructed.

I cans ay that you say many things I agree with, but also, you say many things that I cannot support. the Spirit in me sends up "red flags" of caution when I encounter statements that are counter to long held doctrine. I believe the Spirit will teach us. He taught the apostles and Paul and inspired their writings so that we can read these writings and know the truth. The Spirit teaches from His revealed Word. History shows the destructive results of teachings of people who are convinced that their words are from the Holy Spirit when they plainly are not. I am not trying to be critical of you. I just want to warn you to be more careful in what you post and how far you travel down a rabbit hole of "hidden" meanings in Scripture.

Sister GiGi:

If there's not HIDDEN meaning in God's word, but totally literal so all can understand, then whats the meaning of:

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, you should have not sin: but since you say. We see, therefore your sin remaineth.

Do physically blind people literally have no sin.

The TRUTH is HIDDEN and the Spirit has to tell you the meaning.

John 6:63 ....my words are spirit....

I takes the SPIRIT to understand the meaning.

1 Corinthians 2:14 ....because they are spiritually discerned.

I believe that one should understand the plain meaning of a Scripture section first. I don't mean that everything in the Bible should be taken literally. There are verses in the Bible that are literal accounts or an event, others that are allegorical, others that are prophetic, others that are wisdom literature (Proverbs), others that are expressions of worship, (Psalms) with imagery and words of praise. I try to be aware of the genre of the passage I am reading so I can know more how to understand it. Some verses are both literal and prophetic, prophetic and allegorical, etc. However, I do not believe that every word and verse in Scripture has a hidden meaning. We will just be in disagreement on that topic. I do thank you for sharing you ideas here. It is always helpful to consider what people say prayerfully and from a kind heart. I do this here.

Earl where does it say they were physically blind, that's reading into it then your other comment about leaven requires research on how leaven is used in the east and is compared to how the Gods word works and grows when used correctly for the right purpose. These are not far out mystical concepts most times they are explained in the context. He used many times eastern thought and common things in there lives daily to teach spiritual concepts to.

David,

Thank you. that was my thought about the leaven hidden in the dough. The gospel (leaven) was given by Jesus to just a few at first (the apostles), and not many noticed. But with preaching of the gospel with power from the Holy Spirit, the leaven grew or spread throughout the dough. I think of the dough as the world and over time, according to the work of the Holy Spirit, the gospel (leaven) infiltrated the entire world (dough) just as Jesus had commissioned the disciples to do.

In a way I see the leaven as the church, haven begun in a small way, but over time multiplied in the dough (world) until the world was filled with many believers as the church was and is added to daily. I do not think this verse speaks to the leaven being hidden meanings in Scripture, as Earl seems to imply. Sorry, Earl, this Scripture does not convince me to your way of thinking. But, the Spirit is at work in all of us to learn and grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Sister GiGi, I was saying the parable is not literal but has a hidden meaning.

Earl,

I understand that parables are not to be taken literally, they point to a real life application of the allegory to our lives.

Sister GiGi, the parables point to the Kingdom of God.

Mark 4:11-13

Sister Gigi;

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he to them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leaven.

If there's no hidden meanings in God's word, tell me what this means.

The disciples nor anyone else understood Christ words, because they have to be spiritually discerned, the TRUTH is HIDDEN.

Earl, please see my post to David about this.

Sister GiGi, Do you think possibly long held doctrines could be incorrect.

Revelation 12:9 ...Satan...who DECEIVES the whole world....

This says EVERYONE has been deceived, can you point to day that the Spirit brought you out of that deception.

I can point to the time the Spirit delivered me from the TRADITIONS OF MAN.

Earl, one last thing about the doctrines. Doctrines are just teachings that are accepted by the church as true. Please do not despise the idea of commonly held doctrines. Most are not a deception to us. However, each person deciding their own doctrines can be very deceptive. such attitudes usually indicate a resistance to accept direction from "authority" (which would be anyone God places in your life to teach and disciple you). Not all "authorities are appointed by God, but He has set in the church, teachers, pastors, evangelists for the building up of the body of Christ.

God Bless

Sister GiGI, you are correct, doctrines are TEACHINGS, that man accepts as TRUE, but are those teachings TRUE. Man has TEACHING that CONTRADICT GOD'S WORD, thus those TEACHINGS are not TRUE. ( Revelation 12:9)

Man believes salvation is his choice and not God's choice, contradicting scriptures. Man TEACHES this.

John 15:16 You have not chosen me but I have chosen you, and ordained you ..... Man does not TEACH this.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that God sent the Son to be Saviour of the world. Man TEACHES the SON is going to fail saving the world because it's man's choice and not God's Choice. Man TEACHES this. ( Revelation 2:24)

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even those that don't believe in this AGE ( Romans 9:18-21), specially those that believe (in the AGE).

1 Timothy 4:11 These things (saviour of all men) COMMAND AND TEACH. Many are called (to teach this) FEW are chosen.

Man TEACHES that those who don't CHOOSE Christ are going to HELL. Man TEACHES this. These TEACHINGS contradict all the above scriptures. ( Revelation 12:9).

Thy KINGDOM COME, THY WILL BE DONE.

Psalms 22:27 ALL the ENDS of the WORLD shall remember and TURN unto the LORD: and ALL the kindreds of the nation shall WORSHIP before thee.

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that setteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Man not only does man NOT teach this, they don't BELIEVE this is TRUE. ( Revelation 12:9)

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things have been subdued unto him. then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be ALL IN ALL.

Man does not TEACH this nor even believe it ( Revelation 12:9).

Earl, Thank you for your reply. By it I am understanding more of your doctrines. Some I agree with and some I do not, due to what I know is currently taught by most Christian churches today and what has been taught through the ages. I think we are at an impasse here, because I am not antithesis to receiving instruction from those God has placed over me along my life's journey to guide me as I learn God's truth. I do not believe that a Christian can learn everything that is true doctrine on their own "by the Spirit" as you say. I believe the Spirit teaches us only truth. He doesn't tell one person one truth and then contradict that truth in another believer. We do not know each others' faith journeys , nor one another's current means of fellowship and worship.

Jesus' church is a body of believers. We are to teach one another and, at the same time, remain teachable and willing to receive instruction from outside of ourselves. God places people in our paths that are used to do this. This does not negate being "taught by the Spirit" because the same Spirit is working in private learning as well as learning with and by others. I respect your point of view and appreciate you sharing it. It makes me have to think through a response that is honorable. Neither of us have perfect truth on this side of heaven. But we are both guided and indwelt by the very same Spirit. Salvation is our free gift through Jesus. We are not saved by having perfect doctrine, but are exhorted by Paul to watch our doctrine carefully. He did not distain sound doctrine, which he taught in all circumstances that he preached and established church communities. He followed up on these communities with visits and letters to ensure that their doctrinal positions were correct and corrected where they were not in line with the truth. He obviously didn't believe that these believers could learn all they needed to learn from the Spirit on their own.

I do hope to continue exchanging our thoughts on this site.

Amen Sister GiGi, it's a journey in the wilderness, but we know who feeds us and quenches our thirst and delivers us into his Kingdom.

Thanks. We all drink from the same "Rock" and eat the same "manna" , who is Christ, who sustains us and gives us life moment by moment.

Hi Gigi , in love I have to disagree with you there . God gave us His Word , the Bible so that we may learn of Him . I read every post on here and respect every ones right to their opinions but I don't follow what any person says . I believe God wants us to understand His Word and when we , as individuals , read and study it diligently , He Himself will help us to understand it . I put no trust in humans at all unless I know and trust that person is a genuine Christian , a Truth seeker , I wouldn't ask their advice on scripture . I don't know what your experience of religious 'authorities ' is but in my experience : once I discover that I know more than they do they are not an authority to me . On this site there are sooo many people with more knowledge and understanding than me , that's what keeps me coming back , ordinary folk who desire to know the Truth . God is not the author of confusion , I'm not an intellectual , I'm a Truth seeker . I have brothers and sisters all over the world who are in isolation and all they have is a paper Bible . No electricity nothing , no pastor etc , they are learning directly from the Source of All Life and Righteousness . We can too , He makes sure of that . Seek and you will find .With Christian love . In the old days in England , we had a period called the dark ages , the only people who could read were upper class and the church , it's not called the dark ages for nothing . Have you heard of the Spanish Inquisition ? True horror stories of so called 'authorities' . We don't need them . We need God and His living Word and we can find that in the Bible and in our prayers and in the little sacrifices we make every day when we don't do what we want to do because we know it's wrong .

It sounds like you have had some negative experience with "authority" people in a church situation. however, Paul does instruct us not to despise authority, but to submit to those God places in our lives, especially godly ones. One of the characters of people in the last days is that they despise authority. So, I am careful to have a teachable attitude concerning people God places in my path.

Thank you for you response. It helps to discover more about people we can't know in person so that we can understand more of why they think a certain way that they do when they share their thoughts.

Hi Gigi , thanks for your reply to me . No , honestly I have never had any problems with any Church authorities , it is my honest belief that any one who really wants to ,can understand the Bible . I believe totally that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him . He wants us to understand it and will help any and all of us who put in a bit of work . In my congregation no one gets any wages and all brothers are voted into their positions by all members voting once a year . No one gets paid for any thing . When money gets tied up in religion I'm out the door very quickly . All any of us need to draw closer to our Heavenly Father is a Bible and an open heart and mind and a bit of patience .

Dear Sascha;

I am glad to hear your response to my concern and that you have not been wounded in the way I put forth. Being wounded by a person who has been a spiritual leader is difficult. It happens often, unfortunately. I agree that anyone can learn from God in all of the ways He brings truth to us; whether by individual study, study with a spouse of friend, a bible study group, a sermon, articles and books in print, teaching from online resources, dreams, visions, life circumstances, etc. Yet, with all of this, the Words of Scripture should back up and uphold and teaching before we accept it as unchanging truth.

As always, God's blessing to you and your loved ones today.

Earl, to continue.

Jesus said that he would build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. I believe that the Holy Spirit preserves, builds up, and sustains the church.

In your post it seems you assumed things about me that you cannot know. I have had to shed so much tradition over the years as the Lord has shown me how they hinder rather than help me in my walk with Him and in my witness to others. I have enjoyed the freedom of operating outside of tradition and the discipline that some traditions provide, such as fasting, attending worship services (that have their own traditions, depending on the type of service chosen for the congregation), certain aspects of a liturgy, participating in house church, learning from a sermon, gathering with friends to sing and fellowship. God works in his Church through all of these things. I am sure you have discovered a number of things that help you. As you repeat anything that helps a person in their spiritual development, it becomes a tradition for you.

Earl, I think that most long held doctrines that can be traced all the way back to the early church days of the apostles and their disciples after them are true. I do know that heresies were introduced to the body of Christ from the start and continued to be seeded in the church by the enemy throughout the centuries. Paul and the other authors of the epistles spoke often about those who brought false teachings and beliefs into the churches. The early church made determinations about specific heresies. Over the centuries many traditions were established in the church, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. Some were helpful to the body of Christ and some were destructive. Tradition in itself is not good or bad. However, it cannot be elevated above Scripture and the teachings and doctrines spelled out by Jesus and the apostles.

For 1500 years from the time of Christ, the Scriptures were not read by everyday people. Most people could not read. there was not a way to efficiently copy the Scriptures for widespread distribution. This allowed for corruption to creep into the church and deceive and enslave many for centuries. The Reformation was a move of the Holy Spirit and the providence of God in willing the invention of the printing press. For the first time in history, Scriptures were available to anyone who could read the language of the Bible. In the centuries that followed, education of the populace became promoted, children began to go to school and learn to read, Bibles were translated in the languages of the people. These things were great blessings, but, just like in the early years of the church, heretical interpretations of the Scriptures began to be promoted by Protestant church leaders and common believers. Also, different sects began to form as certain groups emphasized some matters more than others and these emphases differed from sect to sect, congregation to congregation. Despite all of this, the church of Christ will continue to be preserved.

Hi Gigi . I believe that everything that is written in the Bible actually happened as it says , word for word . It has taken me a long time of reading ,27 years , every day except for illness , to recognise the patterns and awesome things that many would describe as ' coincidence ' . I don't believe in coincidences , especially not Biblical ones . It has honestly only been the last two or three years that these things have been literally jumping off the page at me , demanding my attention . There are a lot of things that I read on here that I totally disagree with , I bite my tongue a lot because I know I can be brusque and I don't want to say any thing that will chase any one away from this site . To me , we are a congregation on here , we are all at different levels of learning and understanding and I would never attempt to silence any one . As long as the moderators are doing their jobs then I read everything and glean some good grapes from every one . I have learnt to be tolerant on here , and I've also learnt that I can love people , genuinely love people , that I don't always agree with . We learn from each other , we can't learn from some one if we have silenced them and we can't help some one if we have chased them away because we disagree on some points . I was not this tolerant before I came on here ! This site and the kind folks on here have been very tolerant to me . I try to return their kindness . Much love in Christ . You are an interesting poster , stay and grow with us .

Thank you for your comment. I agree, no one should try to silence anyone else on this sight. I have not done so and don't feel that anyone has done that to me. I have walked with Jesus all these 65 years. Agreed, with age, we learn to think lovingly of others, especially those who share in the salvation of Jesus Christ. many times I read things and choose not to respond. Other times I prayerfully consider if I should respond and how I am to respond. I do think that the Holy Spirit does give us the words we are to say when we are prayerful. Having a strong stance on a topic or responding to what I perceive to be a "red flag" is not being harsh nor an effort to "win" the discussion. It is to present thoughts and beliefs that others may have not thought about or heard before, the same as for others who post their ideas.

Those of us on this site have chosen to be here. (I kind of got here by "accident" as I was not particularly looking for such a forum. But God knows and draws us where He wants us to be. I would not want anyone to leave this site for reasons you implied. But if they do, I am confident that the Lord will lead them to something better and more suitable for them. I believe we should be kind in our words, but truthful, discussing the things of God without putting anyone else down in name calling, etc. Yet, even when we do this from a stance of kind-hearted truthfulness, another person may still be offended by what someone posts. That should be expected in such a forum where anonimity is easily preserved and personally knowing others is not possible as in a congregation or group that meets in person and develops relationships that are more full.

I appreciate your perspective and thank you for your advice.

Brother Keven:

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Acts 1:11 Which (two Angels; glorified messengers) also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing into heaven (they could only see heaven as the blue sky above them)? this same Jesus, which is taken up into heaven (INTO MAN), shall so come in like manner (IN MAN) as ye have seen him go into heaven (INTO MAN).

Revelation 1:7 Behold he (Christ) cometh (at the resurrection of the DEAD) with the CLOUDS (the SAINTS clothed in CHRIST), and every eye shall see him (because there will be millions of Saints that are the IMAGE OF CHRIST), and they also which pierced him (in Christ appearance to Thomas he bore the marks of the cross in his glorified flesh, the word doesn't say; but since we were crucified with him we could also bear the marks of the cross, for all the world to see): and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horseman (not literal, but the Saints) were two hundred thousand thousand (not literally that exact number, signified) .....

Revelation 20:7 An when the thousand years (not literal, but signified, the Day of the Lord or the AGE of Grace or the AGE of those CHOSEN to be PRIEST, CHOOSEN to be covered by the blood of the LAMB and DEATH PASSED OVER THEM.) are expired, Satan (terrestrial flesh, those resurrected back to judgement) shall be loosed out of his prison (DEATH AND THE GRAVE).

Matthew 5:25 ....and thou shalt be cast into PRISON (DEATH AND THE GRAVE).

The wages on sin (UNBELIEF, all other sins are COVERED BY THE BLOOD) IS DEATH (and the GRAVE).