Bible Discussion Thread

does god control the life of Christians

Hi Dean Keeping this simple no God does not control us that being said when we are born again we receive his Gift Holy Spirit by His giving and our believing to be delivered from sin and receive, now from that moment on we have a choice as always to change according to Gods word and do it or as paul says or the wages of sin eventually is death. Simply what you sew is what you reap. You cannot serve God and mammon the world, that doesn't mean we won't sin, BUT THAT IS NOT LICENSE TO WILLFULLY DISOBEY GOD if you sin you ask forgiveness as it says in 1 John 1:8-10.

Brother David, you said God does not control us:

Isaiah 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of my anger, and the staff in thy hand is my indignation.

Isaiah 10:6 I will SEND him ....

Isaiah 10:12 ....I will punish ... the king...

Isaiah 10:13 For he saith, By my hand I have done it ....

If you study this chapter and God causes you to understand, then you will have to agree with God that he does CAUSE man TO DO HIS WILL.

There is other examples if you study long enough.

Hello again Earl My last point when God gave the ten Commandments he Told the children of Israel you shall not throw any other Gods before me I am a Jealous God. There are events in the old testament that the adversary did and there are events that the true God did then there the ones that the True God allowed the adversary to do, why because he is almighty God with Job Satan said to God If I do this he'll curse you, God knew His man and said no he won't and your not allowed to kill him. Job was Gods example of the Goodness of the true God and the Wickedness of Satan, also Gods word says God cannot be tempted neither tempt he any man. God will prove us but not tempt James 1:13+14 there is a difference. Do I believe Gods Will will come to pass absolutely but on His Terms.

Brother David, you made a profound statement in your last sentence.

I do believe God's will, will come to pass absolutely but on his terms.

Is not what you said, exactly what this scripture says:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure (or HIS WILL).

God grace us as we mature IN CHRIST, God bless you.

Earl Again pulled out of Context.

Is it the will of the God of Israel for people do do evil also? If not why does God allow it?

Hi Earl There is a difference between God allowing things to happen because he cannot break His Word, God intervening to bring to pass His Word, I am fully aware of the scriptures that you show and many others. Why doesn't he just stop all chaos and world destruction then? Why did He not stop Adam and Eve from there act of disobedience sin in the Garden.

Everything in the old testament was to bring to pass His Greatest achievement which was buying us back from His arch enemy the adversary but doing it on terms that God set up which means he won't lie or manipulate to bring His Justice to pass. He greatest achievement our Saviour on totally legal grounds, and the enemy knows this. Our God is true in all His ways and works are pure and all life giving and sustaining. When our lord and Saviour was here in person where ever he went He wrecked havoc on the enemies kingdom and brought to light the difference between the two, John 10: 9+10 steal kill destroy. The adversary manipulates to his advantage everything the true God has done that is why he will and does use scripture to His Advantage. I'm aware of what you state its how you state it, peace be to you.

I agree with you. Why would God create people to be like robots.

He created us in His Image and Likeness. He gave us free Will to choose evil or good; to choose our destiny.

In Deuteronomy Gods says Choose Life!! I told some people that God is Pro Choice and they almost crucified me. He's saying CHOOSE-LIFE.

So that we may LIVE__and our offspring.

Thank The Lord Jesus! That His Blood draws a line in the sand. If we follow Him, we will, to choose Life.

Most people miss it, that a demonized god, named Moloch/Molech, was worshipped by the people giving their children to be sacrificed to him. It's still going on. He's dead, but that practice continues. I guess it's truewe're destroyed for lack of knowledge.

We have free will and are able to choose to obey or disobey God. He's saying: Choose Life.

Before I got saved I drank an ocean of liquor, with pills. Almost died "accidentally". I chose that. After near-death, I chose Life and Jesus. It's lasted 36 years.

Life is more peaceful and agreeable to just choose life; all the time. We can look at this world through the Lense of what God purposed for it

And knowit was beautiful. It will be beautiful in Heaven too! Added joy=No Devil.

Tell somebody the GOOD NEWS :D

Who is this mighty God You shared a great statement in Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters[ John 4:9-14] and have hewed them out cisterns broken cisterns that can hold no water elevated vain thoughts against the knowledge of Gods Word Romans 1: [imaginations contrary to it is written] in verse 19 it says there own wickedness not anything that God did. When we turn to the Living God that is what he gives Life. His works and His Word are indeed great and we who believe are made up of both.

Brother David, God is SOVERIEGN he does not allow anything HE is the CAUSE of everything.

Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and GOD DOETH ACCORDING TO HIS WILL in the armies of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and NONE CAN STAY HIS HAND, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Did he allow Satan to be created, or did God create Satan?

Isaiah 54:16 ....I have created the waster to destroy.

Does God allow evil, or is he the cause of evil to be used for HIS PURPOSE?

Jeremiah 23:12 ...and I WILL bring evil upon them.

Hi Earl . With regard to us having freedom of choice . I'm not always good at explaining things so I hope you will get my drift about this . I think some people take you too literally , for example , tomorrow I'm doing some medical trials and I will receive a ten pound shopping voucher for taking part . I would love to spend that ten pounds on myself . I'm not poor but I'm not any ones idea of rich either , I would really like to buy myself a nice bottle of wine . That's my desire , to serve myself , and I'm free to do that . However , I think that God and Jesus expect a bit better behaviour from me so I won't spend it on myself . I will buy ten pounds worth of groceries and give them to my local food bank . I do have the choice though . However I do agree with you because , knowing the Truth has changed me and there are lots of things that I used to do that I would never do now because I know that it wouldn't be right . It's that heart of flesh , that Day Star , Christ in me as you would say . There are many instances in my life where I do feel as if I don't have any choice because of my conscience towards God , I know the difference between serving my own flesh and serving God now , so although strictly speaking I do still have a choice ,God has got me in a grip of love and He knows that I know the difference between serving myself and serving Him and He knows that I know what He expects from me . His purpose will always be fulfilled and He already knows everything that any and all of us will ever choose . I wish I could say that I always do that which is acceptable in His sight .

Hi Earl Show me the scripture where it literally says verbatim that God created Satan I repeat it has to say exactly that. It can't say things it can't say waster it can't say destroyer no figurative language it must say Satan.

EZEKIEL 28

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast CREATED, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Satan has more than one name. Lucifer.

Try Isaiah 14 too. Use the Search Engine. I love it.

Hi Rick , hope you don't mind me butting in . Who or what is satan ? We read in Job Ch 1 , V 6-12 , that who or whatever he is he stands chatting to God . God cannot look on sin , so does this mean satan doesn't sin ? How come he gets to stand in the presence of God if he is the evil malicious vile hateful creature that many think he is ? Sin is disobeying God

. Does satan sin or not ? If he does , how come he gets to stand in the presence of God ? You may notice I haven't even attempted to answer any of these questions and I don't intend to . I shall leave you to study the topic for yourself and draw your own conclusions .

Earl Its your privilege to believe what you believe and showing verses to prove a point when other verses don't say the same point makes the conversation null and void that being the case I'm on to a different subject matter. God Bless Remember a man convinced against His Will is of the same opinion still.

Hi Earl,

You wrote some controversial things there that sound close to blasphemy. Alarm bells should be sounding right now.

Is it possible that you have build a narrative around a few cherry picked verses? But how do you explain the multitude of other Bible verses that say the opposite of what your belief? It's like plucking out 1% of the verses that fit a certain interpretation and ignoring the 99% of the rest.

Have you prayed to God about your current belief if what you said is true or not, and have you received any confirmation? If so, how do you explain the countless others have prayed to God and have confirmation already that what you say is not true?

Let's analyze your 3 Bible verses you seem to assume supports your conclusion.

1. Daniel. Yes, God is powerful enough to do His will. He's also powerful enough to give us freewill to choose whether to do good or evil, or whether to follow Him or not. Do you not believe God is powerful or capable enough for that?

2. Isaiah. This doesn't mean what you assume it does. "Waster to destroy" - it sounds like you're assuming this means satan, but what if it means something else? Isa 21:2 says a waster wastes things. This is not a verse I've researched, but already it just sounds like quite a logical leap to draw such a big assumption from it. Angels like satan were cast out for sinning by their own choosing: 2 Peter 2:4, Luke 10:18

3. Jeremiah 23:12 - evil in this context means a natural evil or natural disaster or calamity.

Curious question: if you don't believe in freewill do you believe God forced you to write this against Himself? Do you feel you have any choices or responsibility in your life whatsoever, like choosing to order a hamburger instead of a chicken sandwich? God bless.

Rick, I concur with you on this. I was just reading last night on the of free will vs. total depravity. It seems that the Early church taught that man has a free will either to choose to obey God or disobey, but the Gnostic sects taught that some man (and physical matter) was totally corrupted and unable to to choose obedience to God. This teaching of the Gnostics resurfaced in later centuries, especially after the Reformation, with Calvin and Luther teaching the total depravity of man and this teaching prevails in sects of Protestantism. It was interesting to read the quotes from Clement who was a partner of Paul, and Ignatius and Polycarp (who where disciples of John),support the teaching (Doctrine) of man's free will to obey or disobey, arguing in order for rewards or punishments to be just, there must be freedom to choose good and evil.

That said, we know that no man can be justified by works. God justifies the sinner through the righteousness of Jesus.

But in the here and now of day to day life, I believe mankind has a free will to obey or not, whether a believer or not. yet, our ability to willfully choose obedience has been corrupted by the power of sin, but not fully erased. Some will argue the other side of this doctrine. I am o.k. with that. Balancing the sovereignty of God with the mankind having free agency is a difficult topic to resolve with so many Scriptures that support either position. And thus is the crux of this matter, the Scripture, which is true and does not contradict itself, presents support for both, so I believe we need to not be absolutely dogmatic either way, but instead admit that some things remain in the counsels of God.

Adam,

Sorry I got the name wrong. Keep up the good work. These wrestling with theological matters is good and healthy. it makes a person think deeply to present their reasoning in a way that is logical and can be understood. Here we are having these discussions with other believers, but we will be asked hard questions by unbelievers, so, doing this with loving believers is good practice.

Gigi That to me is what makes what we have been given the Gift of the spirit as absolutely incredible because in all the steps taken by God and carried out by His Son God acted in the confines of His word which is truth and knows we still have to battle the flesh but with His spirit in us and all the guarantees with that when operated what a glorious walk and life is available to us as we believe and act accordingly. He Bought back by His Sons Sacrifice the Eternal Family He desired to Love Him by freedom of will The Body of Christ His Church.

Brother Adam, it isn't that God couldn't give man free will if he wanted to, it's just that there is nowhere in God's word that it says he gives man free will. Man make CHOICES, which is an EFFECT of a CAUSE.

There is never a Cause without there being an EFFECT. There can't be an EFFECT without there first being CAUSE.

The CAUSE, His words were spoken before the foundation of the world. Those words are being fulfilled in the exact order he spoke. You were predestined to do every thing that has happen in your life, good and bad, At this very moment you are in THE PLACE God ordained you to be. This time tomorrow you will be in exactly THE PLACE God ordained you to be. YOU ARE BEING CREATED IN CHRIST. We grow in maturity. CHRIST will not fail in what he was sent to do. Not everyone was called to come to truth in this age, some are vessels of honour and some vessels of dishonour, IN THIS AGE. There is more AGES to come. Those resurrected back to their flesh will at some point in time be brought to TRUTH. They had no Free Will to be anything other than what God had PURPOSED.

God's word says Satan was a LIAR and a MURDERER from the BEGINNING. Man doctrine teaches Satan was a PERFECT ANGEL from the BEGINNING.

THIS CONTRADICTS, in other words it makes one of those two a LIE, and God's word does not lie.

Isaiah 54:16 ....I have created the waster to destroy.

God created a waster to destroy, if this creation isn't Satan then who is it.

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such a one unto Satan for the DESTRUCTION (waster to destroy) of the flesh, that the SPIRIT MIGHT BE SAVED in the day of the Lord.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, it (FLESH) has to be DESTROYED.

Many (ALL) are on the road to destruction (waster to destroy), FEW find the WAY. If you (FLESH) are destroyed, then you are no LONGER ON THE ROAD TO DESTRUCTION, but off the the road and on the WAY to IMMORTAL LIFE.

God Bless you.

I think that we do have free will to chose to obey God or disobey. However, the fall of man has changed the bent of man's heart towards choosing disobedience more than obedience. If predestination and total depravity is true, then why do we discipline our children and train them to be obedient if all they can choose is disobedience? We doe this so that our children will learn to practice what is good until it becomes a part of their character and they do good because they desire it, rather than out of necessity, or compulsion, or threat. This is a complicated theological issue because there is Scriptural support for both free agency and total bondage of the will. I have sort of vacillated back and forth on this topic over my life as I read the Scripture and read something that swings me the other way. All I can say for sure is that God does cover mankind with His grace and mercy to enable us to chose obedience. If He did not we would all be like the devil, totally corrupted, void of good, and unable to obey God anymore. God did not bestow His grace upon the fallen angels. There is no redemption for them, just the lake of fire.

Hi Earl, thanks for sharing your opinion, but I don't believe any of that is true. It sounds like you're not considering many other verses but just honed in on only 2 verses and interpreted them in such a way to arrive at your desired outcome. I don't believe your personal definition of freewill vs choices. These are one of the same. Eve chose to eat the fruit, and wasn't just an actress in a play God wrote. The Bible doesn't contradict itself, but I believe some readers make false assumptions. I suspect maybe you're not open to my previous points brought up. Other verses already shared that clearly show we have freewill to choose James 1:13-16, Joshua 24:15, Galatians 5:13, etc. so God bless.

Brother Earl,

Regarding the issue of man having a freewill. You stated to Brother Adam: "it isn't that God couldn't give man free will if he wanted to, it's just that there is nowhere in God's word that it says he gives man free will."

You are gravely mistaken. Please read this scripture showing God giving man the freewill to choose:

Deuteronomy 30:15-19

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

This scripture above is a very clear example of God setting forth the free choice for (the Israelites) a freewill to make a choice of life or death!

God continues to give man a freewill and a choice between Life and Death! Let's hope this clarifies the freewill issue for you.

Read and Believe!

God Bless.

Yup! God is glorified in giving mankind and spiritual beings the ability to make choices either good or bad. Through it all, mankind realizes that they are fallible and not perfect like God. And this free agency is a necessity for God to redeem us. The ability to choose (Free agency or will) makes each being responsible for their own obedience or disobedience. God did not make anyone sin, not even the devil made anyone sin. Each individual is the cause of their own sin, and therefore God is just when he judges the choices of his created beings. Thankfully, He has rescued us from sin, death, and the devil!

Hi Adam I totally love the common sense logic you apply in certain categories in conversation, lets keep focused and not go off the deep end mentally that God can do everything and anything because he can't. My examples He cannot lie, he doesn't control us, he's not an indian giver so to speak, he's not going to change all the laws i.e. gravity and physics and others just to fit what others think he should do. He can do great things when we work in His Realm according to His Word.

Thanks David. I'm not sure what to say about your remark. If you believe that God created everything then you would believe He created gravity, physics. It sounds like you just said God can't do everything, such as that (or maybe you meant He has the power but wouldn't want to change it?), but God already did create it, so of course He has power to do His will. So, I don't understand your comment, because an all powerful God is very basic to Christianity, not a limited one. I wonder where your belief originates from. God bless.

P.S. Of course my example applied to old testament, in the book of Acts this applies to The angel opening up the Jail and Peter walking out. When we believe God can and will go above what he wrote to defend and bless if necessary, I know of a man who put a loaded gun up to his mouth to end His life and at that exact moment His Mother prayed for him the bullet discharged and turned into powder in His mouth, that defied physical law. The profit was he got born again and is holgin forth Gods Word in south America.

Adam P.S. One other point God will go beyond what the word guarantees to accomplish that which is profitable for the Church body of Christ and to Accomplish His Word. Example the walls of Jericho were never touched by physical force but by a man of God given instructions to do something that didn't make any sense but was obeyed and the walls came down.

It defied normal physical laws but in that specific case that is what God told Him to do. Prayerfully this communicates better.

Hi Adam Sorry didn't mean to give misunderstood communication to clarify God will not change what he set up to agree with what someone thinks not that you go off the deep end just giving clarification. All laws that God set up whether physical or mathematical or elemental or chemical were for order in His Creation. All

these are in Gods Word and when man tries ro change or manipulate calamity usually follows. The same when man breaks His Word calamity results.

The Word of God Is The Will of God.

Hi David, I get what you are trying to say. Thanks for sharing. I think that God has revealed in Scripture what is necessary for mankind in all avenues of mankind's history and any man's day to day life. However, there is an infinite amount of knowledge and revelation God could bestow on if he willed to do so. He is much beyond Scripture. That is why we have events such as your friend with the gun (Praise to God) and other events that can only be explained by God intervening in these times after the Scriptures were completed. I myself have been used by the laying on of hands and speaking forth what the Spirit prompted me to say to bring about a miracle healing of my son at 5 days old. I found out after tests came in that he had newborn sepsis, which is often fatal for newly born ones, because their bodies cannot fight infection due to not being able to make white blood cells yet, and so, when the white blood cells they received from their mother's blood is depleted, they can may die. I will never forget that moment and also the words of the neonatal doc, who after we left the room, said to me, When I first saw your son, I was really concerned. I don't know what just happened in their, but I think your son will be o.k."

So, God intervenes in big and small ways throughout history to accomplish His will to save and help people. These occurrences happen outside the revelation of Scripture, but when a "God thing" happens, you really know it. It is readily and easily recognized by believers and often times by unbelievers, too.

Gigi P.S. Since it is Gods will that as it is written signs miracles and wonders follow us who believe, it doesn't say just the apostles in context those that believe in what God has done through Jesus Christ he already stated His will in His word, the problem is we believe so far below what we have already been given in Christ. Too many times I myself have been told that's not possible or that's not available. I'm speaking about things I have watched or done, so the enemy has talked believers out of whats available. How will you ever Go up against spiritual power if you have not been given the power to do it. We indeed are children with the Power of the most High. It Is Written What I state is quite clear. Let us rise up and utilize our God Given abilities in Christ.

Gigi This is my simple summary Ephesians 3:20, Phil. 4:13, Ephesians 1;17-20, no man can say it any better, we actually do receive what we believe and act on.

Hi Dean,

God loved us enough to give us freewill- this is the ability to make choices big and small. We are not puppets. Here's a bunch of verses about it:

Link

Some will use their freewill to tell others that they don't have freewill, which is ironic. God is in control of whatever he wants to control. Us having freewill doesn't mean God is somehow not in control. I would challenge anyone who doubts God by asking do you not believe God is all powerful enough or loving enough to allow you to make your own choices?

Those thinking it's a one or the other scenario are making a false assumption. It's like a parent asking her child to clean his room. The child has a choice to do it or not. If he disobeys he faces a consequence. But maybe he cleans his room and then begrudgingly says 'I had no choice, mom made me do it.' Or maybe the child doesn't clean his room, and knows he did wrong, but claims that if God wanted him to do it, it would have happened. Therefore, it must have been "God's will" for him not to.

The child might learn to blame others and not take responsibility. This is a current popular false belief in our society among those who have so much compassion on evildoers that they claim it's not their fault, they were born to do this or that, or that another person or institution is to blame. Even victims may be blamed.

Some adults use this as an excuse to commit sin, because it "wasn't them who" chose to sin, but "God made them do it." So, they then blame God on everything they feel inconvenienced by. Very creative, but everyone knows whose really behind these distortions and it's not God. I believe this could become blasphemy of the holy spirit to make false claims against God. When Jesus was doing his ministry Pharisees tried to claim that Jesus was evil. Matthew 12:22-32

Watch out for false teachings. The way to know is to just read the Bible and pray for wisdom.

God bless...

Proverb 16:4, Psalm 37, Psalm 139, Romans 8, Ecclesiastes 7:17-18, hopefully these are helpful in your study.

Both answers are correct in ways

Exodus 34:6-7, . Psalm 103:1-22, 2 Peter 3:9, Proverbs 3:11-18

Brother Dean, not only does he control the life of Christians, he controls the life of non Christians.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God who worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Ephesians 1:11 ...according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS WILL.

Man hates these words because man refuses to give up control of his life. He see himself as god of his life.

Hi Dean No Dean how can A God of Love by freedom of will be a control freak.