Bible Discussion Thread

The end makes it seem that John is among us. He will live this whole time to present day until Jesus coming. I know further readings will show John in an island in the book of Revelations. Does he die then? I'll have to find out.

Hi Eric,

This one will be a hard nut and it may be empty when you crack it, as in John 21:20-23, Peter was showing he was jealous of John and what Jesus said, maybe Jesus was telling Peter it is not your concern, just follow me and feed His sheep. There was a rumor started that John would not die but Jesus did not say that. Other verses may spur interest relating to John's possible living longer, in Revelation 10:8-11.

The little book that was open that John was told to eat. If the book was open, does that mean it did not contain a mystery or a secret? Did it contain what the seven thunders had uttered, that John was told to seal up and not to write? John was told thou must prophesy again; will that be in the future? Is it written in the rest of Revelation that John had not written down yet?

The Bible does not record the death of John, but there are theories out there you may research those, there is one they boiled him in a pot of oil. I would like to give you more scripture for you to study but this may not have an answer and only come to speculation.

God bless and let the Spirit of truth guide you.

RLW

Hi, I just read today that John, the apostle, was put in a pot of boiling oil but did not get burned. He was then exiled to the Isle of Patmos, where He received the Revelations of Jesus from Jesus and then wrote the book. I did not read about is death. Maybe I need to look further for its account.

Amen and Amen, Brother Ronald, I would like to tell you what has been revealed to me in studying God's word.

Revelation is signified, so most nouns represent something other than what a dictionary would define them.

I believe, the BOOK, is Christ, The WORD, the BOOK, of life, of truth, of wisdom, etc., etc., all things.

Christ told us that we had to eat his flesh and drink his blood, he is our food and water.

I believe the same applies to the open book (Christ), we eat the book, as we eat his flesh.

It's sweet in our mouth because it has brought TRUTH TO US, it is bitter in our belly because we see our brothers (the world) that has NOT YET been GIVEN this Knowledge.

But we will again prophecy to our brothers after they are resurrected back to their flesh here on earth, the SECOND time.

Isaiah 11:9 .....for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

God Bless You!

Hey brother Earl,

Thanks for your reply, I will meditate on what you shared, and I mean that. I agree, that compassion for those who do not have a clue where their going is bitter, and by sharing the word we can receive some bitter remarks. I cannot place us as John as prophesying to others after the resurrection. I feel we have different understandings of after resurrection but that is ok.

God bless,

RLW

Brother Ronald:

This is just an observation of the people around the town I live in, and not an indictment of them are anyone on this forum.

Most people don't read God's word, much less study it.

Most have no knowledge of the Kingdom of God, as taught by scripture. They have been taught, believe in Jesus and go to heaven, or if you don't believe, then you go to hell, it's all up yo you.

They are taught out of the New Testament, with most, seldom ever studying, in depth, the Law and Prophets.

When Jesus came preaching the Kingdom of God is at hand, there was no written New Testament, he taught out of the Law and Prophets.

Jesus speaking one of his parables said:

Luke 16:31 .....If they hear not Mosses (law) and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed Paul a day, there came many unto him into his lodging; to whom, Paul expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses and out of the prophets, from morning to evening.

Before the Old Testament was translated into other languages, there is no mention of HELL. One would assume that if there were such a place of torture for sin, the prophets would have never cease warning people. Yet not one word concerning a place called Hell. Likewise not one mention of a place of eternal bliss, called heaven.

The Kingdom of God is ON EARTH (CHRIST IN YOU), Christ has been calling man into his Kingdom for two thousand years. Those that are NOT CAUSED to hear his call in this AGE, will be resurrected back to their flesh, and Christ and those that WERE CAUSED to hear his call, will judge the earth, and bring the remaining sheep into the fold. This is very evident in the Law and Prophets.

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, man uses this parable to teach the doctrine of heaven and hell, Yet JESUS SAID, if they want believe the Law and Prophets, which DOES NOT teach heaven and hell.

Hello Earl,

I just noticed your comment:

"Before the Old Testament was translated into other languages, there is no mention of HELL. One would assume that if there were such a place of torture for sin, the prophets would have never cease warning people. Yet not one word concerning a place called Hell. Likewise not one mention of a place of eternal bliss, called heaven."

I'm trying to wrap my mind around your comment, because clearly the Bible does talk about hell. It uses the word 'hell' in both the Old and New Testament as well as other synonyms, such as in Mark 9:48.

This fact can also be verified through a quick search:

Link

The meaning hasn't changed through time either. For instance, man didn't suddenly invent the word 'hell' after a certain point of time.

Since a quick search confirms the Bible has always used the word 'hell', so is it possible you meant something else? Since it does not sound like a true statement, can you please explain what you mean by, "Before the Old Testament was translated into other languages, there is no mention of HELL."?

God bless...

Brother Adam, here is two examples of the Hebrew word sheol being translated two different ways.

Job 17:13 If I wait, the GRAVE (Heb. sheol) is mine house, I have made MY BED in the darkness.

Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, You are there: if I make MY BED in HELL (Heb. sheol) behold, You are there.

Same Hebrew word (sheol); YET Job makes his bed in the GRAVE, but King David makes his bed in HELL.

Do you not see a contradiction in the single word, sheol, being TRANSLATED having two different meanings, when they should mean the same thing.

Would you say both should have been translated GRAVE, or do you think both should have been translated HELL.

You will find the same thing in the New Testament, the Greek word, Hades, translated one half of the time GRAVE and one half the time HELL.

No wonder man is deceived.

God bless you.

Hello, there is no contradiction in the Bible. The Bible is already translated accurately. Maybe if you learned more about the translation process that could answer some of your concerns. A word having more than one use or application is normal, and doesn't automatically mean its mistranslated. There is one love in English and 4 in Greek- does that mean it's automatically wrong? I think some false assumptions are being made based about this misunderstanding and I don't believe it is true. Genuine open questions about God's Word is good, but is it profitable to publically try to discredit the Bible?

Brother Adam, you are right there are no CONTRADICTIONS in God's Word.

You believe God's word teaches HELL, yet:

Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Have any of God's prophecies not COME TO PASS.

The doctrine of HELL contradicts this prophecy. If the word Hell was misapplied in translation and the word GRAVE applied correctly, then you no longer have a contradiction.

I'm sure you mean well but what you're proclaiming is based on a false assumption and is untrue. God bless.

Hi Adam This is I read biblically concerning heaven carefully starting Genesis 1:6-8 verse 6 and God said let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters and let it divide the waters from the waters and let the dry land appear.

Verse 7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the

waters which were above the firmament and it was so.

Verse 8 And God called the firmament heaven and the evening and morning were the second day.

Verse 9 And God said Let the waters under the firmament be gathered into one place and let the dry land appear. So biblically when we jump in the air we are in heaven[ this is translated shamayim which means things heaved up or lifted up things] when an air plane flies biblically its in heaven. Then you have the heavenlies Ephesians 1:3 where it

states we have been blessed with spiritual blessings in Heavenly places in Christ. Also Ephesians 1:20 Christ is seating in the heavenlies on Gods right hand.

An interesting point is the most high powered telescopes looking into the heavens have found massive balls of water larger than earth floating as far out as they can see which is whet Genesis says. Gods word doesn't miss a beat . Hell , gehenna and sheol is another discussion.

Brother Adam, in the Old Testament the Hebrew word sheol is translated 31 times as hell, and 31 times as grave.

The two translations, hell and grave, don't come close to the same meaning. Why didn't the translators, translate the word sheol as grave every time or hell every time.

It's easy to see sheol means grave from other teachings in the Old Testament and New, death was punishment, and sheol, the grave (the place the body goes after death).

Do yo believe Jesus went to hell when he died, or did he lay in the grave waiting for the Father to resurrect him.

Man teaches if you go to hell ( Luke 16:26) there a gulf that keeps you from coming out, either way you try to make this fit into mans teaching, it contradicts itself. If Jesus went to hell, according to man he would still be there. If he lay in the grave, then sheol translated as hell is mistranslated, and should have been translated grave. This would also mean the rich man lay in the grave instead of going to hell.

Psalms 16:10 For you will not leave my soul in hell (Heb. sheol), neither will you suffer you Holy One to see corruption.

Maybe the translators were pushing their own beliefs. Grievous wolves shall come in and destroy the flock.

Maybe this was revealed to John when he wrote Revelation and said what would happen if you added or took away from God's word.

Brother Earl. As you've noticed, I don't often respond to your comments & to some others here, as our interpretation of Scriptures are noticeably divergent & I see no proper foundation on which to build a succinct discussion. And from this present thread, I note your reference to Sheol as pertaining to the grave, to which there is finality of human life. And true, if Sheol even carries the meaning of a Hell, there is little reference in the OT to any major suffering therein, though seems to indicate a place further than six feet below ground ( Deuteronomy 32:22; Psalm 86:13; Ezekiel 31:14-16).

But I would ask, as you clearly believe in the Gospel of our Lord, what do you believe that the death of Christ accomplished? And this question pertains to what God requires & also to the benefit of mankind.

Why I ask this supposedly simplistic question is because this matter came up some years ago when a couple of folk calling themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, spoke to me about the wonderful Paradise & freedom of suffering that awaits all men - & wouldn't I want to be a part of it? This matter soon progressed to a person's death & subsequent resurrection to enjoy this bounty from God. And this further progressed to the reality of Hell, to which they clearly don't subscribe to. And ultimately they stated that all the righteous ones (presumably those who followed Jehovah's Laws) would live in this paradise, whilst those who refused Him, would remain in the grave. I took them to task on this belief & they finally left without answer.

Without sharing the full matter here, I wonder if you see anything credible in that discussion, but especially, what did Christ's death accomplish, towards God & to man? And btw, Luke 16:26 was the Lord's Words, not man's.

Thank you, Chris, for responding. I just looked up what the early church taught about hell, and it is aligned with your thinking and mine. Those martyrs that followed right after the apostles, having been appointed as overseers (bishops) by the apostles or by one that the apostles had appointed, taught the doctrine of hell as a place of eternal separation from God and punishment. This is what Jesus saves us from (sin, death, hell, and the evil one) along with what He saves us to (justification before God, forgiveness of sin, resurrection of our bodies to immortality, and communion with God for eternity. This stance has been affirmed by the church through the centuries in both Catholic and Protestant sects. There have always been those who teach as Earl does, but these teachings have been routinely denounced through the church age as error.

It is good to hear from you. You have such a solid take on issues and we all need to such perspectives.

Sister GIGi, how do you define the gospel of the Kingdom of God.

God Bless You!

Hello again, Earl, I affirm what Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 as another example of what was considered the gospel taken to the world for salvation.

When speaking with someone about the gospel, I ask the person to tell me what they know about Jesus and salvation. And then I know what to tell them to urge them to be saved through Jesus.

I think it is good to ask others what they think is the gospel message. It drives us to Thank the Word to review what Paul and Peter said it was. Thank you for asking. You are welcome to relay to me what you say the gospel is, if you wish.

Sister GiGI, According to scripture, all mankind IS DEAD (in trespasses), they have no life in them. Christ came and died to COVER the trespasses of ALL MANKIND. He was resurrected so ALL MANKIND could have his life.

All mankind HAS BEEN REDEEMED, and their life is HID with CHRIST.

Colossians 3:3 For ye (all mankind) are dead and your life is HID with Christ in God.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if the gospel be HID, it is HID to them that are lost.

Mankind is SAVED, they can not lose their salvation, they can not go to hell, their SAVED.

Their lost because of lack of knowledge.

The gospel is bringing this knowledge to mankind.

God will cause them to repent, cause them to believe, cause them to have faith, cause them to love, ect., etc., because it his LIFE IN YOU. Of yourself you can do nothing.

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Man has no knowledge of this.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (his life) that worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure (Because it's HIS LIFE).

Earl

people are not lost because they lack knowledge. (That is what gnostics teach). People are lost because sin makes them enemies of God, like we once were. When we hear the gospel of Jesus, the Word is effective in giving us fait to believe. Some will accept this faith and others will reject it. Christ did die for all mankind, and His atonement was for all mankind, however, He did say that those who do not believe are condemned. He stated many times that hell is a place of punishment for those who are condemned for unbelief. I don't have the Scriptures handy, but perhaps that is something you can research on your own. I am heading off to bed. Have 10 yards of gravel arriving early in the morning and I have my work cut out for me raking it all out.

God's blessing to you. I understand that we will most likely not come to agreement on this. That is ok. We have both spoken our thoughts on this. I leave it in the hands of the Lord to sow us the truth in this matter. Good night.

Hosea Ch 4 .

Amen Sister Sacha, Hosea 4, man has no knowledge of God's way. One day they will be like Paul, in an instant of burning light, they will fall to their knees and say, what will you have me do LORD.

Earl Man knew God Romans 1:18-22 they knew God and they changed not God, also The bible is the Knowledge of

God it is just not believed. So don't understand your statement.

Dear Earl

I will simply refer you to what Peter preached in Acts 2:22-39 as a great account of the gospel that was preached after Pentecost. This I believe.

Brother Chris, the three verse you referenced:

Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in my anger and shall burn unto the lowest hell (Heb. sheol) .....

Psalms 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and you have delivered my soul from the lowest hell (Heb. sheol).

Ezekiel 31:15 Then said the Lord God, In the day when he went down to the grave (Heb. sheol) I caused a mourning, I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.

Ezekiel 31:16 I made the nation shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell (Heb. sheol) with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Ezekiel 31:17 They also went down into hell (Heb. sheol) with him unto to them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.

These verse in Ezekiel is talking about Pharaoh and his army, Verse 15 says he went to the grave (sheol), but verses 16 and 17 says he went down to hell (sheol).

The same word can not we translated as two meaning, when it's describing the same event.

Page 2.

The JWs brought in their elders to talk to me two days later. We discussed the same matter with our Bibles opened. They also spoke of death as sin's penalty (as you have) & that no other eternal fiery judgement awaited the unrepentant. So I asked, 'if you're preaching a salvation that ultimately finds one in the everlasting Presence of God, are you then saying that death is the only punishment for the ungodly?' They affirmed that.

I then asked, 'But if we all die & some are raised incorruptible to reign with Christ & God, what then is the judgement for sin & Christ rejection?' 'Only death', they said. 'So does it makes any sense that an innocent Jesus, God's Son, should suffer an horrible death for us, the apostles should willingly lay down their lives for the love of Christ & the Gospel, & countless others have not denied their Saviour, many walking joyfully to the stake of fiery death, just so that the sinner's present & final judgement rests only in the grave?' Those men arose & left.

If it wasn't for the fact that Jesus was my sin-Bearer, bringing me into a new & right relationship with the Godhead, and that eternal suffering was my certain destiny, then I would not be a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ today - I would be quite satisfied to 'eat, drink & be merry', die a natural death without a Saviour, maybe raised up later for judgement & put to death again with no further consciousness in the grave. But when conviction came, I ran into the arms of a merciful Saviour in Heaven because I fled from the arms of a ruthless Satan awaiting his fiery destiny ( Revelation 20:10, 21:8). The Offence of the Cross is ceased if any other Gospel is preached that provides an easy road to indifferent sinners.

Are you saying that sinners should be punished to satisfy your need for vengeance ? Or why should you be good if the only punishment bad people suffer is death ? Is being ressurected to spend eternity with your God and your saviour not enough of a reward for you ? Do you want to be able to look down into hell and watch people suffer eternal torture , many of whom will have never had the chance to know the Truth through no fault of their own ? Children ? Mentally handicapped or mentally ill people ? Will that make the sacrifices that you have made in your life in order to spend eternity with The God of All Creation and His Son your Redeemer worth it to you ? GOD IS LOVE , HE HATES NO ONE ,HE LOVES EVERY ONE , HE IS KIND AND MERCY FULL TO EVERY ONE . Do you think He wants to see the ignorant tortured for ever ? He would be able to see that , do you think that would give Him pleasure ,HE SAYS : THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH , He says that . There are millions of people who have lived and we're loved by their God and didn't know any thing about Him ,He didn't love them any less because of their ignorance . They should defo go to a place of torture and misery for ever ,is that what you think ? I'm very glad that God is not like us . Sorry if I sound aggressive , I don't mean to , amongst the things I know about God : He is not cruel He loves all of His creation He is never unfair or cold hearted or vicious and He takes no pleasure in our suffering .I'm not a J . W. in case you are wondering .

Sacha,

Would you believe I made a mistake? I did: Revelation 6:14 scroll comes before Revelation 6:12 earthquake. So sorry my kind friend of Jesus.

The leftist movement involves believing that evil isn't that bad, because they assume everyone who does bad was born under disadvantaged situations and thus you can't blame them for their evil. It forms their own version of morality. Instead of sympathizing with victims of evil, they sympathize with the one commiting it.

But God's morality says that's evil, wrong, and that evildoers will be punished in hell. This is in the Bible, but some seem to gloss over this part and seem upset and offended that a good God would sent people to hell. Some don't like the idea of an authority over them and having rules and actually being subject to them.

Jesus loving died for all of us, and some people want to desecrate and disrespect what Jesus did, by committing more evil. This is like slapping Jesus in the face and spitting on Him. Jesus said if you love Him then to obey His commandments. It seems some people would rather follow and sympathize with Hitler as a mass murderer than sympathize with all the families destroyed by him. People are rewarding criminals, even drug dealers who kill people, human traffickers, rapists, pedophiles, and allow them into countries, while imprisoning people who believe differently. That is evil. We even saw someone recently in the US run over a bunch of white people, but because he was black the media didn't cover it much and just called it a 'parade accident'.

God is a loving and fair judge and all people will be accountable for their actions whether good or evil. No one know to what extent people will be punished. The Bible gives several verses, and its enough to know that it's a terrible place to be and someone would have to be incredibly stupid to turn their back on God and try to go there. Some interpret scripture that its just a death and some interpret that it's an eternal torture. But either way, people get what they deserve for turning their back on Jesus and pursuing evil. God already made it very easy to avoid it.

English Sacha,

I wanted to tell you that I like your style of Christianity. Hate the sin, not the sinner. Accidentally like a martyr people will tell you what they believe, then sell it to you harder.

You stay warm O' Isles of the sea. Ezekiel 26:18 the day America falls, and you're saved in darkness, begging the man of sin for your survival.

Keep your eye on Iran Rev 6:12 and the little boy who cried wolf, Israel, for the past 40 years, saying Iran's six months away from a bomb. They'll get a brutish army with no mercy running them off the land in chains. While you're getting your's, Rev 6:14 kickstarts Israel's invasion as it is in fact the Day of the Lord. Russia has their own HARRP program to trigger an earthquake. Antichrist is going to tear this world up.

English Sacha. Is that what you have gleaned from what I addressed to Earl? You've made some assumptions that clearly are emotive rather than what I had written or is revealed in the Bible. We're discussing the fact of God's Judgement to all who are not saved through Jesus Christ.

How God decides who are worthy of judgement (whether some primitive soul or those with mental shortcomings, etc), is God's matter, not mine nor yours. If you believe this God of Love is incapable of judging sinners in such a manner, then you would need to consider the operation of God throughout Scriptures - i.e. He is indeed a God of Love but also a God of Justice. We can often be conditioned by the world & what we perceive to be right, to think of such a justice system as normal, as true. Whereas God's Justice always demands the correct penalty - and unfortunately, simply losing one's life in death (which happens to us all) is just one part of that justice. The wages of sin might indeed be death, but the wages for the rejection of God & His offer of salvation are far greater ( Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:7-9; Matthew 25:31-46; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; Jude 1:6,7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10-15). And sister GiGi has also given a very apt response to you.

My qeustion is ...Is Michael the Prince chief the ressurted Jesus Christ?

Hello Carol. I don't believe that the Archangel Michael was the pre-incarnate Jesus nor the resurrected ascended Jesus. We read of Michael in Daniel chapter 10, as one who helped another who was contending with the "prince of the kingdom of Persia". And again in Jude 1:9 when contending with Satan.

Michael is seen as the chief prince of the angelic hierarchy, but Jesus is never seen as such nor does that work. In Jude, Michael did not hold the same authority as Jesus to be able to rebuke Satan. But of Jesus, we read that He is the Word of God Who proceeded from God to become a man for the suffering of death - taking upon Him our punishment for our sins. That was Jesus' Work then & He is now seated at the Father's right Hand interceding on our behalf & will one day make an appearance into the World to defeat Satan & his followers & to reign bringing in righteous rule & blessing. Michael nor any other angelic being can ever fill those shoes, as important as they might be in carrying out the Will of God upon Earth.

Chris,

Thank you. We are not to judge God's perfect ways. He judges our ways.

MY view of this biblically God is all love but also a God of Justice and that requires a payment for actions against the laws he set up to work and protect creation and man. When man bucks against Gods laws or justice system God lifts his hand of love grace mercy peace and power and the individual sets himself up to the adversaries destructive influence.

God cannot being just cannot override freedom of will because that would be against his own rules which would make him a hypocrite, let him be true. Now His and our arch enemy the adversary knows all this and uses this to his

advantage to get people to blame God for things he does, remember true God life giving the devil author of destruction and death. The reason why so much stuff is occurring is because the farther man walks away from Gods word of life the more the god of this world gets to work his influence. For those of us who believe and stand on Gods Word In Christ we literally

slow down or at times stop this destructive influence, except to those that absolutely appose God. In the end there will be the resurrection of the body of Christ then in revelation the resurrection of the just and unjust those judged by there works outside of the age of grace. I view it this way if someone wants to worship the adversary again what you sew is what you reap the end in eternity won't be good. This is my perspective, let God be true and the other guy the Father of lies.

I agree with your prospective. Thank you.

Joan Thanks and God Bless It Is Written.

Good Morning English Sacha My bible says God is all love when or if some decides to go totally against the God of

Life and love and peace then the only thing left for God to do is I'll wait, but unless you come back to me my hands are

tied. Romans 1:21-23 man walks away God is, Jesus Christ in the gospels walked and worked the works of God

for all those with one condition they had to believe and even then he helped there unbelief. The only time he didn't do

many mighty works was in his own home town because they didn't believe. John 3:16 speaks loudly.

Hello, Sacha

Those of us who are in heaven will not be enjoy viewing the wicked receiving the penalty for their unbelief in hell. We will not be allowed to view it. God separates hell from heaven in order to have heaven be perfect for us. God is perfectly just and is not unloving when he judges unbelievers to eternal punishment in hell. He is exercising His perfect judgment and wrath rightly. It is this very judgment and wrath that Christ's death and resurrection saves us from, not just death. If death is all that awaits the unbeliever, then Christ's death does not change was only a one way act, sparing believers from eternal death. Which is not what Jesus taught (i.e. Lazarus and the rich man).

I believe that God will judge children, mentally impaired, and those who never heard the gospel in is perfect wisdom. I don't think we need to think for God.

I once heard a story about someone who was brought the gospel to a remote area of the world. Upon hearing of Jesus, one person remarked, "So that is the name of who we worship." This reflects what is said in Romans 1. Man can know that God exists and seek Him. But in places where they have not heard of Jesus or have the Bible to learn more of God, most people create idols and devise wicked practices and false worship. But even among such people, there may be some who worship God from a true heart. God does not despise these. Nor does he despise children or those who cannot understand Him through their minds. He speaks to their souls. The Holy Spirit can regenerate anyone He chooses. But since Jesus' incarnation, the Spirit most often regenerates through the hearing of the gospel.

I choose to let God be God, and myself be a lowly human. I do not question His judgments as either right or wrong.

If he created hell and determined that it will be inhabited by the unbelieving humans, angels, and the devil, I trust that that is the right and just thing.

Page 1.

Thank you for those two sets of comments brother Earl. Briefly, in reference to those three verses from the OT, the thought that comes through from them (in our present subject), is that both David & Ezekiel spoke about "the lowest hell & the nether parts of the Earth". The grave or entombment of a body cannot support the meaning that these writers intended. 'Sheol' does have other meanings, but you have chosen the 'grave' as the consistent one (which I agree, is generally seen), whereas the 'nether parts of the Earth & lowest hell' clearly mean something deeper & more sinister than just the grave.

Leaving that aside, I'm back to my original story of the JW's visit to me, so I'll proceed without receiving an answer to my question. Firstly, the Gospel, which proclaims to all the results & benefits of Christ's Sacrifice, speaks to both the Father & to mankind.

God required it: for a Lamb must be slain to satisfy God, as 'payment by a life for a life'. Not only was His Anger appeased (= propitiation), but He could forgive us because His Son took upon Himself our sin & penalty securing our redemption & acceptance with the Father.

Man needed the Gospel: for there could be no other who could bear his sin, forgive us completely & present us faultless before the Father. So the repentant sinner was not only forgiven through Christ's Sacrifice but was also freed from the penalty that his sin rightfully deserved.

Earl Actually according to the young s analytical concordance there are four different meanings biblically for hell,

sheol unseen state, hades unseen world, gehenna valley of hinnom the fire that never goes out and to send to tartarus.

There are many words translated to english that have different understanding in the original texts. That being satd the translators still did a phenomenal piece of work!