Bible Discussion Thread

IS SALVATION CONDITIONAL OR UNCONDITIONAL

Romans 5:8 For God commendeth his love for us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

No conditions were put on man to be save, it's a gift of God. You were saved before you were ever born and before you ever sinned. ( Romans 9:11)

Grace is Grace and Mercy is Mercy.

Revelation 22:12 And behold I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as HIS WORK shall be.

Matthew 7:22 .... have we not done many wonderful WORKS

Matthew 7:22 ..... depart from me ye workers of iniquity .... this is man's reward, for man's work...

Brother Earl, Brother Adam, I believe this is an important issue to discuss. Perhaps it is the HOLY Spirit that is having us gather here together to discuss this.

I'm only addressing the two of you by name (right now) because you are both correct (on most) of these issues & today Earl I think people do need to know & address; there are differences in eternity & grave. Today the world faces many issues & decisions that lead to the grave. (I have lost many loved ones, from decisions that led to destruction, ultimately the grave) examples smoking, addictions, drinking etc.) we today have sugar flooding our foods & obesity even in medical practice. The biggest discussion in society, religion & political is actually right in line with 'which destruction?' "death', immunization, etc. Luke 9:25, Mark 8:36, John 12:25, Matthew 16:26,

I would like eveyones input on= What do feel the LORD leading us to discuss about the differences? Where our focuses should be? How do we discuss people making bad health choices?

Please even address this Matthew 15:19, if you would.

I would like to grow some in understanding.

Hello Brother Earl, & all in discussion,

I hope you're not feeling attacked, "faithful are the wounds of a friend." Proverbs 27:5-6, I believe we are all still learning, just because we believed something to be true or false previously doesn't mean we always will. The HOLY Spirit is still teaching all of us. The scriptures that are stirring in me the most while reading your discussion are Matthew 7:13-23, Matthew 25:29-30, Matthew 25:31-46, I pray GOD will give us wisdom in these matters. Philippians 2:12-16, Hebrews 10:23-39,

T. Lewis There is a major difference between being attacked and bringing attention to something or someone,

if a believer is not on with correct doctrine and its that blatant walking in love is bringing attention to it. But if not

adhered to then drop it or move on. also the holy Spirit is not going to teach one person one thing about scripture

and on the same subject matter an entirely different thing, that is confusion and that goes downhill.

Just making a point, I don't question just to question I question to understand.

Hello, T. Levi;

I think that Earl has the the ability to bear up under such exchanges, as most of us who respond to him possess. If he is able to submit the large number of posts that he does is an indicator that he does this ability. If he didn't, he would have retreated a long time ago. The rigorous exchange of ideas that go back and forth between some of us on here is healthy, but not everyone will wish to engage in the way some of us have.

Certainly, if Earl is feeling attacked, then I would hope that he would let us know. We all want to be sensitive to what each of us can bear.

Hi Earl,

Did you post this in attempt to counter a post I made a few hours ago?

Is it possible that you are confusing God's unconditional love for us with conditional salvation?

The verses you shared are great, but don't support an unconditional salvation.

Salvation has always been conditional, because it requires action on our part. This was the key point of nearly all the parables Jesus spoke. How to be saved. Being saved means to be saved from something that would otherwise happen. Do nothing = not saved. Follow Jesus = saved. Following Jesus means reading the Word and following the teachings, such as...

Romans 10:9 says "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

It says "If..." you do these things "...thou shalt be saved."

That is a condition. If it was not a condition, then the word "if" would not have been used. If what you're saying is true that this is not a condition then would have said to do nothing or whatever you want, because you're saved regardless. But it doesn't say that. It says the opposite of that. The Bible has many conditions. It's easy to understand what a condition is by the format: If... [you do something] then [this is the result]. In programming, an If... then... statement is called a conditional statement. That's the literal definition of

If I remember right, Earl, do you not believe in hell? If my memory is correct on that, then what is the purpose of salvation? What would you be saved FROM? The whole purpose of salvation is to be saved from hell. Even a secular dictionary gives the definition of salvation as "preservation from destruction or failure."

I'm not sure if anything I wrote will influence your opinion whatsoever, but at least I will have tried. God bless.

Brother Adam:

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Philippians 2:11 And every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

You said when this happens you are saved.

All mankind, at some point in this age or in the ages to come, is going to bow the knee and confess Jesus is Lord, therefore all mankind will be saved.

Romans 14:11

Isaiah 45:23

Man cannot be in HELL and also CONFESSING JESUS IS LORD.

Hello Earl,

Thank you for explaining your point of view. I think you revealed what is at the heart of your belief, thank you, because I was quite perplexed before. I don't know how open minded you are, but I will take a moment to explain something in hope that you will prayerfully consider this.

So, it seems you revealed 2 assumptions. What's interesting is you have inserted your own condition for salvation while claiming there's no conditions for salvation, because you used the format: If.... then.... you basically said "If [all mankind is going to bow and confess] then [therefore, all mankind will be saved]."

This human logic follows the format of "If [this is true] then [this is my assumption about it]."

1. All mankind, at some point in this age or in the ages to come, is going to bow the knee and confess Jesus is Lord, therefore all mankind will be saved.

Our difference is that I believe your assumption about these scriptures to be false. Why?

You quoted: Philippians 2:10-11

You wrote: "You said when this happens you are saved."

My response: "No, I did not. This is false assumption #1. Philippians is referring to after this life, after it's too late. Everyone will eventually bow once this life is over. Salvation is dependent upon what is done during this life, not after. Does that make sense?"

You also left out the very next verse 12 which says "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." It doesn't say "Everyone is saved regardless, so don't worry about it." It doesn't say "do whatever you feel like, because your actions are irrelevant." It says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. This word 'work' suggests action and effort is involved, do you agree? It also doesn't mean we earn it, its grace by which we will be saved, but to receive it we have to accept Jesus's gift and follow Him (actions).

Assumption 2:

Man cannot be in HELL and also CONFESSING JESUS IS LORD.

Why? It will be too late then and all will know.

We should all "deep study" the evil spirit of Jezebel. It's in the Bible; teachings by Pastors on Google; and on YouTube.

We're all seeing IT in action, by all these HELL teachings. Why wouldn't she want to mislead the body of Christ.

There is only one way to get rid of this evil, wicked spirit. I AM NOT CALLING ANYONE IN HERE evil. We must recognize the true evil. Discern rightly. Put on our armor; and Aim it at something that is INVISIBLE. Ephesians 6.

It's not "she" Jezebel. IT IS an evil spirit. It shows up where TRUTH ABOUT JESUS CHRIST, and Him crucified, is being preached. Now go study. Pray the correct names.

Pray for those taken captive..as I am. These are brothers and sisters.

Mishael

Earl, You should not teach that there is no hell. Jesus taught more on hell than anyone else in the Bible. Which means it's important. Rather than cause someone seeking salvation, or a baby Christian__that there is no hell. You should just keep that theory to yourself.

There is a severe penalty that you may not want to pay.

REVELATION 22

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall TAKE AWAY his part OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and OUT OF THE HOLY CITY, and from the things which are written in this book.

MISHAEL: This is pretty clear: no adding and no subtracting.

You are a gifted teacher except for this one thing that can get your name REMOVED from the book of life, by God. His son is the WORD OF GOD!!

I had a Pastor of a huge Church in Tulsa. He was Anointed. Because of circumstances, he lost his Church. Oral Roberts rebuked him as did others. He lost friends. IT HAPPENED BECAUSE HE DECIDED THERE WAS NO HELL.

if you want proof, go on YouTube and see what Carlton Pearson teaches now. He's old and gray now. He shows old videos of himself to keep people close that still miss the anointed music.

What are your reasons? I think Carlton feared that relatives who smoked or drank beer; were going to hell. He had a "holiness background".

If we are not clinging to Jesus, the Word of God, we are in danger of hell too.

CHOOSE ETERNAL LIFE, OR CHOOSE ETERNITY IN HELL.

HELL IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Hell is mentioned only 23 times in the New Testament.

12 times hell is translated from the word Gehenna, referring to Hinnom

10 times hell is translated from the Greek word hades

1 time hell is translated from the word Greek word tartarus

Gehenna (Hinnom) is a real historical and geographic place just southwest off Jerusalem's walls.

This historic, geographical location is found 11 times in the Old testament scriptures, so it SHOULD NOT have been translated HELL.

The Greek word Hades is found and additional 5 times translated GRAVE.

Grave and Hell don't have the same meaning. Why weren't the translators consistent in their translations.

The Greek word tartarus means abyss.

The wages of sin is DEATH and the GRAVE, not HELL.

We have record of Jesus speaking about Gehenna or Gehenna fire; NOT HELL) 11 times, but only on 4 occasions, not more times than anything else in God's Word.

written by the Word of God

on the last page.

Revelation 22:18-19

Earl Take what you have shown and read the verses that they were used in, and in the correct context then let us know what you come up with.

Brother David:

Matthew 5:25 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body cast into GEHENNA (translated hell).

When Jesus was on earth Gehenna was the dump ground for Jerusalem where all the trash, garbage and bodies of dead criminals was dumped. It was on fire to DESTROY. Worms were there eating the dead flesh. As long as there was new fuel being dumped there, the worms never died nor was the fire ever quenched. It's a city park now, the is no longer worms or a fire.

Jesus was using Gehenna as an analogy, not something literal. If Jesus meant for you to take it literally, why aren't you missing eyes, hands and feet, that you have cut off and plucked out, to stay out of HELL.

Matthew 5:30

Matthew 10:28

Matthew 23:15

Matthew 23:33

Mark 9:43

Mark 9:45

Mark 9:47

Luke 12:5

Matthew 5:22

Matthew 18:9

James 3:6

All the verses have GEHENNA translated as HELL

Here are the scriptures in the Old testament that refer to Hinnom.

Nehemiah 11:30

Joshua 15:8

Joshua 18:16

2 Kings 23:10

2 Chronicles 28:3

2 Chronicles 33:6

Jeremiah 7:31

Jeremiah 7:32

Jeremiah 19:2

Jeremiah 19:6

Jeremiah 32:35

None of the scriptures have anything to do with the CHRISTIAN HELL.

Earl, that is great you're looking into the word and sharing scriptures. I believe 100% in God's Word, but I do not believe your interpretation of it. It seems to require at least 2 levels of twisting, because you shared that: 1. You do not believe the Bible's translation is correct, and 2. You believe hell is figurative.

And the vast majority of Bible readers disagree with you. The Bible isn't complicated on matters of salvation. It's so easy, children can understand it. Jesus died to save us from hell if we accept His gift and follow Him. If you don't believe in hell and that everyone is saved, what exactly are they 'saved' from?

Do you have a response to my previous comment about this?

Also, have you genuinely prayed and asked God about if what you're saying and telling others is actually true?

God bless...

Brother Adam:

You ask if I believe what I am saying is TRUE.

Of course I believe what I am saying is TRUE.

You believe what you are saying is TRUE.

God says that we are just vessels and he does all things though his vessels, therefore the words coming out of your mouth are God's words, just as the words coming out of my mouth are God's words. All of this is for a PURPOSE of God, to bring us to KNOWLEDGE of God.

God doesn't have to have us, he could raise children out of stones.

God PURPOSED to do things a certain way, we are part of that PURPOSE. God will not fail fulfilling HIS PURPOSE.

Our REST in Christ is knowing and believing God's purpose will not FAIL.

GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL.

Dear Earl, Either there is no hell (and all people will be saved) or there is a hell (and it waits unbelievers).

So, Either you are wrong on this or Adam and others who believe opposite of you are wrong. But I don't agree that we are all vessels and God is working in both you and us on this topic. God will not contradict what is True. So, both cannot be true. One statement is true and one is false.

For those reading tis thread, please read the verses put forth in this thread within the context of each passage. Doing this should help people discern which of us is correct on this topic and which is making false statements.

Sister GiGi, the original manuscripts didn't have verses and chapters, the translators put those in God's word, so to kept things in context would mean keeping them in context of the entire word.

The context of the entire WORD is God's kingdom with God's creation and GOD IS ALL IN ALL

Corinthians 15:28

Hello again, Earl.

I know that the Bible was not written with chapters and verse enumeration. I also know that Jesus said to teachers and Pharisees that they search the Scriptures, but had missed out on the primary point of the Old Testament, that they speak of and that direct the reader to Himself.

Hi Earl Actually the subject of the bible is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, look up a Teaching called

The Red Thread.

Brother David, put the verses below together and mediate on them in the spirit.

We are here on earth and the kingdom is within us. Christ is the body that holds the fullness of the Father, Christ is ONE with the Father, a body with LIFE in that body, we are (ONE) the body and Christ is the LIFE in the body.

Colossians 1:27 ....this MYSTERY..... CHRIST IN YOU.....

Ephesians 4:4

Mark 8:35

Matthew 7:14

Christ is the SEED and the SEED, when planted, bears SEED exactly like the SEED planted. Look at the way God has made plants and animals to reproduce, after their LIKENESS. God reproduces no different than what he created reproduces. Jesus is the first (son of god), Jesus is the last (son of god).

Job 38:7 When the MORNING STARS (plural) sang together (ONE), the SONS OF GOD shouted for joy.

Revelation 22:16

Revelation 2:28

God Bless You!

Sister GiGi, you are right, one belief is wrong and one belief is right.

I am well aware that the vast majority of Christian believe the very God that tells them they have to love their enemies is going to do the opposite of what he tells his children to do, and send them to HELL. I am in the minority that believes God also loves his enemies.

Matthew 5:43-44

Psalms 94:10

Proverbs 16:6

Earl,

We both shall know wic is the correct view in due time.

Blessings to you.

Earl,

I guess we shall see in time.

Dear all, listening for the Holy Spirit talk too u. Is this right or that right and mm? Wait for a answer. I try to do that these days. And for certainly it can be difficult and many words and thinks is coming up.

It may be like we dont is there yet. Then He will answer in His time.

Do we realy want too listening when He tell us go and feed His lamb? Or go to my supermarket's and give out the word of God? Or when He tell u need too fast for one week becouse u need the Holy Ghost in the future? U may will be tested if you are willing to pray for a sick person, or something.

There we have the essences of Christ. Can we? Only Jesus Christ know this ppl who is willing too stand up for His case. Ill pray that we all have a great hunger for soul's too get saved. Amen.

If street ministry is your burden, it's a call to evangelism. Pray to the Lord of the harvest, to send you to those ready to receive.

There are many new websites online of people teaching street ministry. (I call it cold contact.) The Lord will direct your walk. It is best to have a Christian friend to accompany you. One talks, one prays silently.

I buy 'Chick tracts' online. Almost everyone will takes one with them. You need to be in a church so they can pray for you.

The Lord is still saying, follow Me and I will make you "fishers of men". :D

Thanks for response Mishael i am almost never disagree, and read all your post. Thank u for all good words an learning on the web site.

Is it not soo that we all should have some longing for some souls too save all of us.

Once in a sight i was in hell. Ill think it was Jesus who show me. I did not see any light. But i was not ever afraid.

There where more than any horror movie. All in darkness and blood. And the only light was the light from fire of bodyes, who get burned over and over again. It was a streem there and some horses. And the horses walk in a thick blood streem who go to the stomac. I think are we being there already Ppl scream and begging for theyr life. Some was hanged and the head fall of, over and over again and again. And ppl died and died over and over again. It was no end of the missery in death and mm. I was paralyzed.

It is more than one heaven and its more than one world like under and under the world. And then a deep darkness. Our eye cant see all yet. JESUS went there and release the prisoners, and we call it hell. Or under world.

Soo we dont have only love and peace. And green gras forest. It is a place who is opposite too our world.

But its here we have to select page. It is here we lifts our swords in Jesus Name. And He will have the glory forever. After it is too late.

God bless love u all in Christ

[Comment Removed]

Thank you, Mishael. Good advice. I will take it under prayerful consideration. We love everyone on this site. But not that is posted is sound doctrine. Yet, it probably isn't good to let what one sees as error stand without a response that speaks what is correct doctrine.

Brother Adam: I have a question for you, you don't have to answer back, you only have to answer to yourself.

For what purpose did GOD SAVE YOU.

Dear Earl,

I didn't understand your response to the topic at hand. It seemed to avoid the main question about what we're saved from, but that's ok. I hope what I wrote was at least considered. I did see your repeating of your belief that the KJV is a 'Catholic' Bible and that's untrue. And your idea that hell doesn't actually mean hell, but something nicer like a cellar or grave isn't true either. The Bible is already translated accurately by a team of experts who spent years methodically and prayerfully doing it word for word. You're one person claiming the opposite with no evidence for it, so I don't find the attacks on God's word as credible. Not sure what your goals are in attacking God's word publicly on a Bible site, but nonetheless, I'm glad you're here.

You asked: "For what purpose did GOD SAVE YOU."

I don't agree with the terminology "saved" past tense, because we haven't been judged yet. The Bible mostly uses the terminology shall or will be saved. Future tense, not past tense, because we are still living and have freewill to follow Jesus or not follow Him. The choice is ours.

Paul in the Bible said to run the race to the end to receive the prize, not the race was already over. 1 Cor 9:24-27

So I don't believe I have been "saved" from anything yet, nor has anyone else on earth, because we haven't been judged as it says we will be in 2 Corinthians 5:10. It says we "all" must appear to be judged. All means all. I understand some think they can skip judgment based on good behavior, but that's not Biblical. All means everyone. Here's another: Romans 14:12 "Every one of us..." 1 Corinthians 4:5. "Every one" means everyone, including Christians and non-Christians. 1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

But by following Jesus, can we have assurance and confidence in salvation? Yes. Philippians 1:6

If we don't follow Jesus, can we have assurance and confidence in salvation? No. Luke 12:5. Hebrews 10:26

God bless...

Brother Adam: does man have any part in salvation.

No he does't; you don't chose me I CHOSE YOU.

God causes you to repent, God causes you to believe, God causes you to love him and your brothers ( Ezekiel 36:27), God causes everything in you life, because it's NOT YOUR LIFE, it's HIS LIFE, we are just the body that holds THE LIFE,

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (THE LIFE) that worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

At God's appointed time for each individual to come to Christ, that PERSON will COME, Paul is our example, were are all on the road to hating and killing our brothers, UNTIL CHRIST APPEARS in is, then we declare what will you have me do LORD. We become a labour doing the WORKS OF GOD, of yourself you can do nothing.

Everyone was saved (past tense) by Christ death and resurrection. Now each one individually waits for his APPOINTED TIME for Christ to CALL and that individual will COME, just as PAUL did. A FEW in this AGE the rest in the AGE(S) TO COME.

Hi Earl,

I disagree with your interpretation of course. Do you have other Bible verses to support your idea, because it seems like cherrypicking a few to try to make them into something they don't mean. Do you have kids? Let's say you have a son and you interact in his life- does that automatically mean he has no choices at all? Does that mean he's a total puppet with total subjection to your will? Or do you agree that it's possible for your son to still have freewill while you participate in raising him and being in his life?

It sounds like you're assuming by these 2 verses that you cited that God is an all or nothing type thing. That he either must 100% control every aspect of your life so you are just a robot, or nothing at all. And I ask: why do you assume that? Just as a parent isn't a 100% or 0% interaction, why assume God is that way. Yes, He can work in your life, especially if you seek Him and pray, but under no circumstance does he rob you of the gift of freewill which he's already given you. I've actually never met anyone who believed in that before, so it's quite perplexing on how this idea even came about, because I don't see any Bible verses supporting it.

For instance: Joshua 24:15 - when it says for us to 'choose' this day whom you will serve, do you think it instead means

that God chose for you? Do you believe you have any choices at all in life? Like do you have a choice to respond to me? Do you get to choose what clothes to wear or what to eat for lunch? I have that choice and I chose to follow Jesus out of my own freewill, so do some people like you not have that freewill, or how do you explain that?

God bless...

Brother Adam, man makes thousands of choices every day. The question is why or what makes him make that choice.

MAN believes man is separate from God.

The word says we are the body that GOD FILLS. Man has no KNOWLEDGE of this.

Christ was the first BODY, you can see a BODY, God is spirit and spirit can not be seen. God wanted to be seen so he created a BODY, and FILLED that BODY with HIMSELF, and called HIMSELF MAN (Adam) and that first man was our GOD and SAVIOUR Jesus Christ. He, the body FILLED with the POWER of our unseen Father, created his wife EVE (WOMAN, which are both male and female).

Christ was manifest in the flesh so his brothers and sisters could SEE who their Father is and cause them to have KNOWLEDGE of who they ARE, bodies that are FILLED WITH GOD.

Christ always said of myself I can do nothing. Ever choice was made by his Father because Christ is only the BODY, its the LIFE in the body that make the choices. Christ had KNOWLEDGE of this, that why he NEVER SINNED.

He WROTE these words to us:

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (the LIFE) that WORKETH in YOU (the BODY) To WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

You and I, Brother Adam, are just a BODY that is FILLED with CHRIST, therefore it is not us making choices but THE LIFE in us CAUSING US to make those choices, to bring us to the knowledge that we are EXACTLY like Christ, a BODY that is FILLED with the LIFE, a Son of God.

He who is BORN OF GOD cannot sin; WHY, becauses it's not the BODY, but the LIFE causing you TO WILL and TO DO, and God cannot sin.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes (CHOICES), and you shall keep my JUDGEMENTS (my purpose for you) and DO THEM.

Joshua said, as for me and my household we will follow God, not because he was given free will, but because the Spirit within him CAUSED him to DECLARE IT.

You are of the household of Joshua.

God Bless You.

Hi Earl I understand its Gods desire for all men to be saved , but God also knows there are men that won't be

Cain Nimrod Ahab jezebel[woman] Judas Ananias and any men of belial in old testament and the men Jesus Christ

was addressing in John 8:44 where he said you will die in your sin. These are people who absolutely knew of god

but defied His authority i.e. his Word. These individuals will never be saved period.

Brother Rick, what do you believe is God's definition of GRACE and MERCY.

Are you not saved by God's works. Do you believe you have any part in your salvation.

God's word says it's all his works and none of our own ( Psalms 92:4-6)

We ALL KILLED CHRIST, yet he FORGAVE US and SAVED US.

Why wouldn't his grace and mercy extent to all MURDERERS, does the number of people one kills make one more guilty. David killed numerous, yet God said he was a man after his own heart.

David was a VESSEL, CHOSEN to fulfill the WORK'S of GOD, a vessel of honour, other are CHOSEN to fulfill the WORK's of God by being vessels of dishonour,

All is of GOD. God WILL SAVED the vessels of dishonour also, because they had no choice in GOD'S PURPOSE for creation.

Those that are saying LORD, LORD, DID WE NOT, are the ones that did't believe ALL WORKS are of GOD, we are just the axe in the hand of the Lord. ( Isaiah 10:15)

ALL God's desires and thoughts will COME TO PASS.

Earl I apologize according to Gods Word grace is Gods divine unmerited favor its just given not earned,

first usage Noah found Grace in the eyes of the lord. Mercy is the withholding of merited judgement, in all the

church epistles Grace and mercy are stated along with peace, all of which we have been given by God through

Jesus christ our lord and Saviour.

Amen Brother Rick!

Earl The problem is I'm not saying you don't love God or don't believe, first you got a big heart for Gods

word my observation, now some of what you tie together is earth to moon. Gods grace and mercy is made

available to All Who Believe. If an individual DOES NOT BELIEVE OR REJECTS WHAT THEY KNOW TO BE

THE RIGHT THING TO DO than Truth which is Gods Word means nothing to that individual. Now we did not

ALL KILL CHRIST the bible says the judeans rejected there messiah and it opened the door and us Gentiles

Got in by Grace. In the old testament when God gave the order to a leader of His People to go and fight

another tribe, King , or nation, it is because He being all knowing knew that nobody that was being killed

was not going to believe. Also the definition of kill is in the category of self defence, the definition of murder

is to take a life with evil intent Cain was the first murderer thats night and day. The second one is one of the ten commandments. Gods grace and mercy extends to all creation, that hardly means that men acknowledges

or believes thats because the adversary corrupted man so bad that all men and women after the downfall are

born totally antagonistic against God that's the flesh. There are places in the old testament where things supernatural

were attributed to the true God that satan was actually at fault. Whether translation error or not don't know.

I do know John adversary steal kill destroy that what he does, allowed by God to do or not. Jesus Christ I am

come that they might have life and have it more abundantly. Why might because its dependant on believing.

So Earl God Bless

Brother Rick:

Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of CREATION (creation is everything and everyone) WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD.

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made SUBJECT to VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of him who has subjected the same in hope,

Romans 8:21 For the creature itself ALSO shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

These verse say that when all the ELECT of God have been gathered; they, with Christ, will DELIVER creation into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

What do you believe is your purpose, in the kingdom of God here on earth, going to be.

Revelation 5:10 And hath made us unto OUR GOD kings and priest: and we shall reign (rule and govern) ON THE EARTH.