David, ok, thanks for sharing. I would agree that creation is the natural outflow of Who God Is, even so, He could have chosen not to do it and would still be completely satisfied.
I say that due too what I form studying Classic Theology on who God is. The Scripture state tat God is in need of nothing. He is perfectly complete within the Godhead. If He had need of something, then that which He needed would demand a necessity outside of Himself. Everything God has created is not needed by God.
Paul, in Athens, stated "God, who made the heavens and the earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands, Nor is He worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed anything since He gives all life, breath, and all things."
Acts 17:24-15.
God chose to create the world and all who live upon it out of His benevolence and goodness, by volition, not because He needs us or needs someone to love. There is infinite perfect love within the Godhead, therefore, no love can truly be added to Him or taken from Him. We, and everything He has created could very well be a possible not-have-been by His volition. But He cannot be a possible not-have-been. His existence is within Himself, therefore He is ever-existent.
The theological terms I am speaking up is God's simplicity, completeness, self-existence, and self satisfaction. You can google these terms and read more about it and the Scriptural basis for these things. I encourage this.
Well written GiGi. Especially, "God chose to create the world and all who live upon it out of His benevolence and goodness, by volition, not because He needs us or needs someone to love." All His Goodness & Bounty we see about us (& also that which is unseen) is the expression of God's Love. His Love cannot be contained within Himself without expression; just as the instructions given to us about having love or faith - their existence within us must show themselves outwardly, or else one could rightly question their existence & validity ( James 2:14-17).
And the converse must also be true: when His Love is spurned & His Offer to forgive & be accepted into His family are treated as contemptible, can that Love that compels God to also show us mercy, not in our final hour ultimately relegate that wretched soul to punishment for his sins? If man, filled with sin, yet receives no provision from His Creator to find forgiveness & restitution, can justifiably find grounds for still being found acceptable. But when that offer given in love, in patient waiting, & by the imploring of the Spirit is cast aside, can the sinner expect anything less than God's full force of punishment meant for Satan & those who regard him as their god & follow him? We can either serve God fully or Satan - unfortunately, there's no middle ground on which to rest our case. And that's the great tragedy that lulls many into a false hope & a careless living. Just adding here a few thoughts that your worthy comments have prompted in me.
I understand how you feel. I have not formally studied theology as far as taking courses, but my pastor has helped me by supplying some materials he used while he was in seminary, and I have studied some on my own. My interest in this is to better understand the churches teachings on the nature of God, Jesus, salvation, and other "doctrines" spoken about in the Scripture. Paul did not simply state a doctrine by quoting Scripture and then leaving it at that. He explained spiritual truth using the skills He had learn in is formal training to give other Christians an understandable idea about a truth He was presenting. This is how I use information outside of the Scripture: to explain spiritual truths that I have questions about and deepen my understanding of these things. I believe that Scripture is the final inerrant revelation of God to mankind, but I also believe that He has continued through the centuries to bless some with intellectual gifts to help present Scriptural truths to believers. I think it is wise to review some of these writings, trusting that the Holy Spirit will guide me in my learning.
But not everyone wishes to do this and I understand. Have a good day.
Yes, Jesus chose Paul to reveal the mysteries of the gospel to, knowing that Paul would then use the skills and talents he had before meeting Jesus on the road to Damascus.
I refuse to think that intellectual talents such as Paul had, are not God-given and wasteful as far as knowing the truth and communicating this truth to others any more than I would think that musical/singing talent is not God-given and wasteful.
Some people harbor prejudice towards people who are "smart" along with displaying a haughty air towards them in the way they speak about them. I try not to get caught up in that kind of vapid and harmful behavior. To me, it is like someone who acts like the world started spinning the day they were born.
Rick, you are correct. I was not implying that you said that or think that way. I was just commenting on some of what I have met with on my journey of faith. There is an element of anti-intellectual snobbery within the body of believers I have encountered over the years.
I was highlighting that the Lord did not ask that Paul set aside is intellect or skills to do the work of His calling. The Spirit renewed Paul in every way, not just his mind or heart. But Paul was still Paul with all of his faculties and talents.
Sister GiGi, God CAUSES US to seek these TRUTHS, they are like a hidden treasure.
The Scribes and Pharisees were the theologians at the time of Christ, he constantly upbraided them for LITERALLY knowing the scriptures, but not having KNOWLEDGE of what they meant, because it is a HIDDEN treasure.
He CHOSE fisherman and SINNERS to be GIVEN KNOWLEDGE through the Holy Spirit.
He does the same TODAY, I am not saying ALL, but those that have numerous doctorate degrees, are often like the learned in Christ day, they often LITERALLY know the scriptures, but don't know the hidden treasure, in what they mean.
God Bless You!
I have a friend, just a janitor, but rich in the knowledge of the Lord.
He has attended the same church for 45 years, yet when their pastor left, the members, instead of considering someone more than qualified, to teach and lead, told him he didn't have a seminary degree so he wasn't qualified.
This is partly what's wrong with our churches. Our church don't follow Christ's examples or words, but do what looks best in mans eyes. Seminaries CANNOT teach the THINGS that are REVEALED by SPIRIT.
Bro. Earl Bowman you are so right many truths in the bible are like hid treasure. As Jesus said these things are hid from the wise and prudent But revealed unto babes and sucklings which are his Children ( spirits th H.G. ) as that which is born of the spirit is spirit thats his Children that are gona be born in us via his seed the living word . Isaiah said he wd see his seed and be satisfied which are the weaned Child and the sucking Child in his holy mountain Isaiah 11 . All the animals in isaiah 11 are humanity that is gona a be led by a lil Child to his Holy Mountain the Kingdom of God. Hebrews 12 we are come unto his mount Zion ,the city of the living God to a huge host of angels, That heavenly Jerusalem. We cannot get to that holy mountain without the lil Child leading us, the Child being the H.G. that Child of Promise. GOD Bless you Earl.
Earl, to continue ... Before I was school age, 9 of us lived in a home that was about 20 X20 feet square-four rooms- kitchen, living room, bedroom, and bathroom. When my parents had saved up enough money, additional rooms were added over the time I lived at home. We played outside a lot! Never at a loss for a playmate!
I was blessed to be able to attend college on financial assistance. I did well in my studies and took it very seriously, knowing that the taxpayers were paying for my education. I wanted to use this opportunity wisely.
I can tell you that being poor did not add to or subtract from the gifts and talents that God had placed in me. Nor did it make my faith and calling weaker or stronger. God planted faith in me by His grace and grew it and made it fruitful.
I refuse to look down my nose at anyone that is seeking more knowledge about Him and His ways. There are a myriad of ways to grow to know Him more. One size does not fit all. I am thankful for all of the saints who have written down what they have learned. I am thankful for all the saints who I have had the pleasure to talk with about the Lord, helping me stretch and grow in grace and the knowledge of Jesus. I love the Scriptures, they make us wise towards salvation and the Holy Spirit uses all of these ways to work in my life.
So, I try to stay humble and grateful. I try to appreciate each member of His body. We are all being fit together in Christ by the working of the Holy Spirit. Therefore let us, we must not think that the body of Christ would be better off if certain people were not a part of it.
Earl, Funny how the Lord chose a learned Pharisee to reveal the gospel to, to take the gospel to the Gentiles, preached to congregations of churches planted by him, and to write most of the epistles of the Scriptures for the churches. I guess the the Lord thought that Paul's advanced education and knowledge of the Scriptures should be put to good use for the early church.
I understand what you are saying. I just chose not to disparage the fellowships that God has called together in congregational settings, nor the intellectual contribution many saints through the ages that used their keen intellects to wrestle with high ideas about our God and the way He has worked in mankind through all of time. We should all endeavor to use the gifts and talents God has placed in us for the good of the Church. Just because someone has had the opportunity to study theology at a seminary or college doesn't automatically make them an ineffective witness for Christ, nor does the fact that someone may be a janitor or other type of job that does not require an advanced degree a star witness for Christ. There are strong, devoted believers in all walks of life and others who are weaker and such, as well. I just don't like to stereotype as you have. I think it is prideful.
My dad was a janitor, school bus driver, and odd job worker. He had ten children to provide for. He and my mom worked very hard all their lives and sacrificed so much more than of themselves than most people do today when raising a family. Neither of my parents ever lived above the poverty line as children or adults. For me, we we very impoverished growing up, but my parents made sure that we had as much of the necessities as they could provide. We were not on public assistance. We gleaned fruit and vegetables from gardens of people who offered it. We had our own garden in the vacant lot next to our home. My mom canned jar after jar of fruits and vegetables every summer/fall and we all helped.
I don't think we can state it enough that God's love is the reason we exist. It is greater than anything tat would come against it. Praise God!
He did not have need of a family outside of the Godhead, because He is totally self-sufficient and self-satisfied within Himself. He condescended to create this world and its people, along with all of the angels and spiritual beings, despite knowing that the exercise of His creativity would bring evil into this new arena of creation He chooses to draw near to. He is not a God who is far off. He is near, closer than a whisper. He willed it that, through redemption, He would abide within His adopted sons and daughters. What a privilege!
We don't deserve any good thing from God, but He is perfectly benevolent, willing to share His riches and goodness with those He created. We are on a plane of existence that really does not even come close to is plan of eternality, infiniteness, and perfection. How the Son humbled Himself to become man. How low He was willing to descend to have His eternally holy essence indwell even perfect human flesh. I am amazed by this every time I think of it!
I think it is good to extol the greatness and goodness of God to Him and to one another. This pleases God and refreshes us. In this forum, where we tussle with some of the most profound thoughts in all of the thinking of man, knowing, too, that there is a whole lot of mystery in and about God that we may never understand, we can always bless one another with BIG thought about our GREAT God!
David, The Father always has the Son and Spirit to share infinite perfect love together. He does not have a need to love anyone outside of the Godhead. But He chooses to love those He created. There is a difference between need and volition.
This has always made me really push my mind in believing and God's love I'll explain. I have been told by
many an individual that God can't stand sin or the flesh and in His eyes its worthless well we might as well give up
trying to live because we will sin not intentionally everyday. But God being a Father also wanted a family to love Him
not because they have to because they want to Romans its the Goodness of God that leadeth thee to repentance
So God completing his Will through our Lord and Saviour and Brother said by His Promise His Word His Power His
Love I will put my Spirit in them and they by there believing and following my Word will make it available to exercise
my spirit the gift by freedom of will. The grace in this completed action is so far beyond human comprehension
that its challenging enough to believe and walk in everything given because we will never get it because the 5
senses mind cannot fathom perfect love which is the love of God. That being said the term born again means just
that what was given to operate by grace is none returnable and God is not an Indian Giver. God will reward an
individual based on the time they stood on His word in this the Age of Grace. The stubble will be burned and the
fruit left over will determine reward.
This age we live in is the most incredible biblically because 1 Corinthians 2:8 if the prince of this world
would have known what we have been given he would not have crucified Jesus Christ. Really think about that like
you chewing beef jerky. It was not written in the stars and the prophets didn't know it, we are Holy, every place
we step is holy ground by our presence. Someday we will believe some of this of What a Loving Father gave us
His Children. Just some heart God Bless
I've never read that in scripture.
since that's His very nature and I don'rt see that written.
I say that due too what I form studying Classic Theology on who God is. The Scripture state tat God is in need of nothing. He is perfectly complete within the Godhead. If He had need of something, then that which He needed would demand a necessity outside of Himself. Everything God has created is not needed by God.
Paul, in Athens, stated "God, who made the heavens and the earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands, Nor is He worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed anything since He gives all life, breath, and all things."
Acts 17:24-15.
God chose to create the world and all who live upon it out of His benevolence and goodness, by volition, not because He needs us or needs someone to love. There is infinite perfect love within the Godhead, therefore, no love can truly be added to Him or taken from Him. We, and everything He has created could very well be a possible not-have-been by His volition. But He cannot be a possible not-have-been. His existence is within Himself, therefore He is ever-existent.
The theological terms I am speaking up is God's simplicity, completeness, self-existence, and self satisfaction. You can google these terms and read more about it and the Scriptural basis for these things. I encourage this.
Thanks for asking.
And the converse must also be true: when His Love is spurned & His Offer to forgive & be accepted into His family are treated as contemptible, can that Love that compels God to also show us mercy, not in our final hour ultimately relegate that wretched soul to punishment for his sins? If man, filled with sin, yet receives no provision from His Creator to find forgiveness & restitution, can justifiably find grounds for still being found acceptable. But when that offer given in love, in patient waiting, & by the imploring of the Spirit is cast aside, can the sinner expect anything less than God's full force of punishment meant for Satan & those who regard him as their god & follow him? We can either serve God fully or Satan - unfortunately, there's no middle ground on which to rest our case. And that's the great tragedy that lulls many into a false hope & a careless living. Just adding here a few thoughts that your worthy comments have prompted in me.
my privilege and yours to choose. I've read to many things that don't line up with scripture by equal
people discussing the same subject. So again on to the next thing.
I understand how you feel. I have not formally studied theology as far as taking courses, but my pastor has helped me by supplying some materials he used while he was in seminary, and I have studied some on my own. My interest in this is to better understand the churches teachings on the nature of God, Jesus, salvation, and other "doctrines" spoken about in the Scripture. Paul did not simply state a doctrine by quoting Scripture and then leaving it at that. He explained spiritual truth using the skills He had learn in is formal training to give other Christians an understandable idea about a truth He was presenting. This is how I use information outside of the Scripture: to explain spiritual truths that I have questions about and deepen my understanding of these things. I believe that Scripture is the final inerrant revelation of God to mankind, but I also believe that He has continued through the centuries to bless some with intellectual gifts to help present Scriptural truths to believers. I think it is wise to review some of these writings, trusting that the Holy Spirit will guide me in my learning.
But not everyone wishes to do this and I understand. Have a good day.
on his part, just believing and teaching and writing and biggest of all being an example. The information
given Him was a secret kept before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4. See Ya
I refuse to think that intellectual talents such as Paul had, are not God-given and wasteful as far as knowing the truth and communicating this truth to others any more than I would think that musical/singing talent is not God-given and wasteful.
Some people harbor prejudice towards people who are "smart" along with displaying a haughty air towards them in the way they speak about them. I try not to get caught up in that kind of vapid and harmful behavior. To me, it is like someone who acts like the world started spinning the day they were born.
different renewed mind when teaching what was given that's all. God knew His commitment in his heart for his
word would be carried out which is why Jesus Christ had to appear to him because nobody else would have
gotten through. See ya!
I was highlighting that the Lord did not ask that Paul set aside is intellect or skills to do the work of His calling. The Spirit renewed Paul in every way, not just his mind or heart. But Paul was still Paul with all of his faculties and talents.
The Scribes and Pharisees were the theologians at the time of Christ, he constantly upbraided them for LITERALLY knowing the scriptures, but not having KNOWLEDGE of what they meant, because it is a HIDDEN treasure.
He CHOSE fisherman and SINNERS to be GIVEN KNOWLEDGE through the Holy Spirit.
He does the same TODAY, I am not saying ALL, but those that have numerous doctorate degrees, are often like the learned in Christ day, they often LITERALLY know the scriptures, but don't know the hidden treasure, in what they mean.
God Bless You!
I have a friend, just a janitor, but rich in the knowledge of the Lord.
He has attended the same church for 45 years, yet when their pastor left, the members, instead of considering someone more than qualified, to teach and lead, told him he didn't have a seminary degree so he wasn't qualified.
This is partly what's wrong with our churches. Our church don't follow Christ's examples or words, but do what looks best in mans eyes. Seminaries CANNOT teach the THINGS that are REVEALED by SPIRIT.
Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
John 9:41 And Jesus said unto them, If you were blind ye should have no sin: but now ye say, we can see; therefore you sin remaineth.
John 8:21 Then Jesus said again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go ye can't come.
Everyone is LOOKING for the place, but it's not a place, but a new creation, the new man exactly like his CREATOR.
God's has has been gracious to us.
I was blessed to be able to attend college on financial assistance. I did well in my studies and took it very seriously, knowing that the taxpayers were paying for my education. I wanted to use this opportunity wisely.
I can tell you that being poor did not add to or subtract from the gifts and talents that God had placed in me. Nor did it make my faith and calling weaker or stronger. God planted faith in me by His grace and grew it and made it fruitful.
I refuse to look down my nose at anyone that is seeking more knowledge about Him and His ways. There are a myriad of ways to grow to know Him more. One size does not fit all. I am thankful for all of the saints who have written down what they have learned. I am thankful for all the saints who I have had the pleasure to talk with about the Lord, helping me stretch and grow in grace and the knowledge of Jesus. I love the Scriptures, they make us wise towards salvation and the Holy Spirit uses all of these ways to work in my life.
So, I try to stay humble and grateful. I try to appreciate each member of His body. We are all being fit together in Christ by the working of the Holy Spirit. Therefore let us, we must not think that the body of Christ would be better off if certain people were not a part of it.
I understand what you are saying. I just chose not to disparage the fellowships that God has called together in congregational settings, nor the intellectual contribution many saints through the ages that used their keen intellects to wrestle with high ideas about our God and the way He has worked in mankind through all of time. We should all endeavor to use the gifts and talents God has placed in us for the good of the Church. Just because someone has had the opportunity to study theology at a seminary or college doesn't automatically make them an ineffective witness for Christ, nor does the fact that someone may be a janitor or other type of job that does not require an advanced degree a star witness for Christ. There are strong, devoted believers in all walks of life and others who are weaker and such, as well. I just don't like to stereotype as you have. I think it is prideful.
My dad was a janitor, school bus driver, and odd job worker. He had ten children to provide for. He and my mom worked very hard all their lives and sacrificed so much more than of themselves than most people do today when raising a family. Neither of my parents ever lived above the poverty line as children or adults. For me, we we very impoverished growing up, but my parents made sure that we had as much of the necessities as they could provide. We were not on public assistance. We gleaned fruit and vegetables from gardens of people who offered it. We had our own garden in the vacant lot next to our home. My mom canned jar after jar of fruits and vegetables every summer/fall and we all helped.
I don't think we can state it enough that God's love is the reason we exist. It is greater than anything tat would come against it. Praise God!
He did not have need of a family outside of the Godhead, because He is totally self-sufficient and self-satisfied within Himself. He condescended to create this world and its people, along with all of the angels and spiritual beings, despite knowing that the exercise of His creativity would bring evil into this new arena of creation He chooses to draw near to. He is not a God who is far off. He is near, closer than a whisper. He willed it that, through redemption, He would abide within His adopted sons and daughters. What a privilege!
We don't deserve any good thing from God, but He is perfectly benevolent, willing to share His riches and goodness with those He created. We are on a plane of existence that really does not even come close to is plan of eternality, infiniteness, and perfection. How the Son humbled Himself to become man. How low He was willing to descend to have His eternally holy essence indwell even perfect human flesh. I am amazed by this every time I think of it!
I think it is good to extol the greatness and goodness of God to Him and to one another. This pleases God and refreshes us. In this forum, where we tussle with some of the most profound thoughts in all of the thinking of man, knowing, too, that there is a whole lot of mystery in and about God that we may never understand, we can always bless one another with BIG thought about our GREAT God!
to. That being said God being a father from what I see biblically put together all of creation for man to enjoy admire
be nourished and understand His Love so my Opinion is Indeed God needs and want a family to extend His Love
to. Think of it why Go through all the longsuffering and patience He went through and still goes through if it wasn't
because that's the epitome of His Nature Love and He is also the ultimate giver. I look at it this way the earth is the
center of creation and man was originally given authority or dominion over it. That's one Heck of a free gift just
obey or respect my who and what I am.
Volition is voluntary and not necessary.
the author of hate. Also I'll stick with God is a Father and wanted a family in edition to what he had originally
That being said God Bless and Moving On.
This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.
Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?