Bible Discussion Thread

What is the right principle of the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ? Regarding the "rapture" of the saints. Is it pre-trib mid-trib or post trib principle? I need an answer pls....

Precious Rick asks a Great question "If the dead are already risen and are in heaven then why is the church the body of Christ going to be Raised and meet him in the air in new incorruptible bodies like His In Thessalonians who are the just and unjust that will be raised in the book of revelation?"

Thanks So Much! What Saith The Scripture?

Part I Asleep Awaiting resurrection

1) A 'General' (not 'specific') prophecy:

Dan 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

'Some' believe: "BOTH At The SAME time." But, 'Impossible' According To Scripture:

2) 'Specifics' of the general prophecy of resurrection:

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead (unjust) lived not again ( Rev 20:11-15) until the thousand years were finished...

...This is the first resurrection ("...they lived..." v. 4) . Blessed and holy is he (the just) that hath part in the first 'prophetic' resurrection: on such The Second Death ( Rev 20:15) hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Rev 20:6

These 'prophecies' Must Not 'Be Confused (Wrongly COMBINED)' with, But Must Be Rightly Divided 2 Timothy 2:15 FROM:

God's "Revelation Of The MYSTERY!"

To be continued

Grace,

If I may ask a few questions just on part one? Forgive me if I misunderstand the post. What scripture says the rest of the dead are unjust? You listed Daniel 12:2 and we also have John 5:28-29, Matthew 25:31-46, Acts 24:15, do we just overlook these? In the white throne judgement are not the books opened. "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". Revelation 20:11-15. In this judgement of all nations there will be those that are told well done my faithful servant and those unworthy their reward, the lake of fire. This is my understanding.

God bless,

RLW

Grace That's not what I read, and that's okay.

Part II Asleep Awaiting resurrection

God's 'Prophetic' Program For ISRAEL (see Part I)

Rightly Divided 2 Timothy 2:15 FROM

God's "Revelation Of The MYSTERY (Secret)," for The Body Of CHRIST

3)...Which Has The Following "Specific" 'resurrection/rapture' of ONLY (the just) 'GRACE believers' "who 'SLEEP In Jesus'" AND, at the same time, "we who ARE ALIVE and remain" 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 And 1 Corinthians 15:51-57

Thus, 'these ASLEEP' are NOT 'risen and in heaven,' (Rick, I apologize IF I 'implied' this somewhere), but, are Only the "Conscious Departed souls/spirits" RESTING In Jesus, in Heaven WITH Him, awaiting resurrection (to "Be Brought" and Be Reunited 'with their BODIES' from the graves, and "Changed Into Incorruptible"), According to Plain and Clear Scripture:

"...them also which sleep in JESUS Will 'God Bring With' Him." 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (Rightly Divided, NOT 'Confused' with Revelation to John, For ISRAEL)

Thus, the answer to the question "the deceased are already with Jesus"? Still stands, According to 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 and Philippians 1:21,23 = God's 'Answer Is YES!'

Perchance there is a 'Different' interpretation that I Cannot see, for "...them also which sleep in JESUS Will 'God Bring With' Him." 1 Thessalonians 4:14 ???



Precious Rick, and all Precious friends, Please Be Encouraged In CHRIST, And HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

More "study" of 'Distinctions' between Prophecy and MYSTERY: Link

Antonio Vicente,

There are different understandings, Preterist, Historicist, Idealist/Spiritual, Dispensationalist, and Futurist interpretation of the end times, things that are taught that will happen. Your question of pre, mid, or post is based on when the Church will be taken to heaven to be spared the tribulation. When did this theory or doctrine start? There are some writings before, but the roots started in the late 17th century but were made popular by John Darby and C.I. Scofield with the study bible with footnotes helped promote the doctrine.

You as well as many on this site may believe this theory and out of love, I just ask that you study this for the truth. For those like me in the upper age group may not still be living but those who will be when these things start many will be lost if this theory is wrong.

The pre, mid, and post is based on taking the 70th week of the prophecy given to Daniel 9:24-27, and verse 27 is interpreted to be the 70th week and moved to the end time, the he in this verse is the antichrist, and seven years are placed at the end time, and your question is before, in the middle, or at the end of the tribulation.

Does scripture tell us we will be spared tribulation or the wrath of God, are they the same?

If the 70-week prophecy given to Daniel has been fulfilled what does this do to this theory?

Does scripture say there will be a third coming or just the second coming of Jesus?

Does 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 tell us our destination after we meet Jesus in the air?

If the falling away and the son of perdition is revealed happens before Jesus returns, can there be a rapture before these two things happen?

These are just a few questions, is this theory true or part of the delusion?

Did God spare all the ones before us from tribulation?

Our hope is eternal life in Jesus Christ not being saved from the death of this fleshly body.

May our ears be open to the Spirit of truth.

God bless,

RLW

I have always been concerned about this theory of the secret rapture that many believe in. Just two days ago I was viewing a funeral service and it was mentioned. But that and several other things that the priestess said raised my brows and made me exclaim "what???" out loud. The Bible explicitly tells us about the state of the dead. But here was this female preacher telling the attendees that the deceased was already with Jesus. Yours sir, is so far the only explanation that makes sense; and for this, I thank you immensely!

Precious Lystra, 1) "the deceased are already with Jesus"? According to 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 and Philippians 1:21,23 = God's 'Answer Is YES!' Else Then this verse is 'false', Correct?

1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in JESUS Will God Bring With Him."

IF "dying is not gain," and to "to depart 'to Be With CHRIST' is not Far Better," then, of course, the Above verse would NOT be true, Correct?

2) "'theory' of God's rapture, According to His 'Secret'"?:

Praying Hopefully that this 4-Part Bible study will help Encourage you with your Very Important Question about God's 'Sound' Doctrine, Great GRACE Departure: Link

Precious Lystra, Please Be Very 'Richly' Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified! 2 Timothy 2:15 Romans 16:25 Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,?

God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Grace ChrisE I only have one question, if the dead are already risen and are in heaven then why is the

church the body of Christ going to be Raised and meet him in the air in new incorruptible bodies like His

In Thessalonians who are the just and unjust that will be raised in the book of revelation?

Lystra Walcott,

Sometimes the Holy Spirit whispers (your raised brow) and sometimes a two by four to the back of the head. No thanks to me, the Holy Spirit will guide us if we humble ourselves as we know nothing and accept the truth even if the whole world says different.

God bless and may the Holy Spirit of truth guide your study.

RLW

Oh thank God indeed! My thanks to you is for allowing God to use you to spread His word. So thanks for heeding the call.

Ronald Scripture from what I read Jesus Christ 1st coming Birth ministry and resurrection to Gods right hand,

2nd Coming Coming down not touching down and Gathering the church together, 3rd Coming Apocalypse with,

the resurrected Saints His body to kick the enemies keester.

Hey David,

Thank you, I enjoy and benefit from your posts. I know many feel the same as you on the rapture of the Church. Not to debate but something you may check out, Daniel 9:25 tells us it will be 69 weeks from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem unto the Messiah. We know Jesus' ministry was three-and one-half years. So, by scripture half of the seventieth week was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified (cut off), the other half has also been fulfilled, check it out. No need to reply in the love of Christ.

God Bless,

RLW

Hi Ronald I don't base my knowledge or walk on feelings they come and go scripture liveth and abideth

forever, remember spirit is willing flesh is weak. Feelings are needed for our walk but shouldn't dictate our

walk and shouldn't dictate the truth of scripture or our actions. God Bless

Hey David,

Sorry for using the word feel, it was not meant to suggest anything other than your belief or your understanding of the rapture of the Church that is taught. I just pointed out scripture on part of the rapture as taught I thought you may study. If we do not pray and study what we are taught, we are accountable. The definition of deceive; is to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid.

This was the first thing Jesus said after the disciples asked about the destruction of the temple.

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Have a great day in love.

God bless,

RLW

Ronald Keep something in mind which makes a difference in understanding certain things, Jesus Christ

initial ministry was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel so a lot of things he taught were addressing

them I'm not saying that what he shared did not apply at all to us some does and some doesn't. When it

comes to Gods Word I'm careful to whom is something written to, it does make a difference. He came to

fulfill the law which in practice ended at the cross because Christ put an end to the curse of the law.

Day of pentecost started the Age of grace which walking again by the spirit 24/7 we complete the law

because walking by the spirit fulfills all the law. But again its your privilege to believe what you will.

David,

You are now going into scripture that has no meaning to this topic, and with the connotation of your posts, I humbly say we have come to a place to lovingly end the discussion; we do disagree on the rapture of the Church and being carried to heaven. All I did was point to a scripture you may study concerning the 70th week that is placed in this theory or doctrine that you may look at to study for the truth, if you are confident in this teaching with no need to study that is your choice.

RLW

Hi Ronald Hi again my position is one of confident absolution did study your numbers once didn't fit,

thanks God Bless moving on.

Hi Ronald Its interesting that if you disagree with some ones understanding or interpretation in one area your

judged but in a different area they agree and your great so I take what you said with a grain of salt. I have not

found two people on this site that agreed on all fields of scripture because either the theologians they learned

from or books they read also differ on same subject matter. As I stated before simply Christ came 1st Time birth

ministry death resurrection right hand Gods throne. 2nd time the gathering Together 2 Thess. 2:1 then 7-12 ,

those who believed not the truth will be left we the saints who believed the Body of Christ will be gathered

together Christ will not touch down then in the appearing which is what revelation was called first after other

events take place Christ comes back with us His body I.E. Jews and Gentiles the Mystery same spiritual body

and the telos or the very end will be near. P.S. I saw all your Time frames and referenced verses and like I'll

state to anyone its your privilege to believe what you will, and mine also no judgement from me.

David,

Are you being facetious when you say "Christ's third coming" with the Saints?

Is there an event in-between Christ's resurrection and Christ standing on Mount Zion with his army of saints? Luke 17:34-37 makes it clear that the "taken" are dead with buzzards circling overhead. It's the Day of the Lord when 1/3 of mankind parishes, no one gets a free pass out.

Why at the second coming do you say Christ will not touch the earth while in charge of the Saints. Are you accounting for a man made rapture, to skip out on your appointed death? Why would God rapture born sinners when most saints are appointed death?

Did you alter scripture, or am I not understanding what you are saying? Please explain this interpretation.

Charles So there's no confusion what do you believe the scriptures state concerning this subject matter.

Thanks for your good explanation and questions concerning the "rapture". I found it helpful.

Thank you, GIGI, have a great evening.

God bless,

RLW

There's a website on YouTube, GEVTE, which is interesting. I'm curious what others think. It's math+astronomy+days and dates or earth events.

When I compare that with, "Look up-your redemption draws nigh thee"

I sit outside a lot.

Hey Mishael,

I love looking at the sky also, I had a dream, I guess it was a dream, when I was young standing under a tree, it must have been in the fall or winter because there were no leaves on the tree. I was looking at the sky and it was like a knife was cutting it open and it opened like a zipper. I still get goose bumps when I think of it. I will check out Gevte I think I have watched some of them before.

God bless, keep looking up, Jesus told us to watch.

RLW

So will I, Mishael. Thanks!

Precious friend, Antonio Vicente, I pray the following 4-Part Bible study will help with your Very Important Question about God's 'Sound' Doctrine

Link

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

2 Timothy 2:15 Romans 16:25 Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,?

God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Antonio It is before the apocalypse we of the church in age of grace are saved from the judgement of those

that do not believe to come during the tribulation period, in other words we're outta here.

Amen David!

( 1 Thessalonians 5:9)