Bible Discussion Thread

Chris no offence but your take on Chanukak ( the Festival of lights ) THE DEDICATION.. is not in agreement with the light of the world.

The Words of our lord . It was on Chanukak that they tried to stone our lord 3 times when he was on Solomon's Porch which was in the temple . They came to Jesus and said what manner of stones these are but he refused to admire them saying there shall not be 1 stone left on another it will all be tuned to ruble . It was HE that was the real light of the world and the the stone the builders rejected. Thus i find no admiration in Chanukak, The Dedication. But thats just me. gbu Chris.

Thank you Chris,

You always have a way of stating your thinking clearly and sensical. Yes, Chanukah is a national holiday of the nation of Jews, like our 4th of July or Thanksgiving. Such holidays, if celebrated, should be done in a way that honors God with gratitude and acknowledgment of His providence in assisting a nation in its time of need.

Thank you Alex - no offence taken. I question your reference to trying to stone the Lord three times & that it was on 'Chanukak' that they tried to stone Him. There's nothing in the Bible that Chanukah was being celebrated in any of the accounts of Jesus' Life & Ministry. You may have to refer to the apocryphal books to find mention of them, but certainly none aligned with Jesus' Life.

Nevertheless, I understand that the point that the enquirer was making was, 'whether Hanukkah is still valid for Jewish believers & Gentile (believers)?' I think that was what he/she wanted to know. Similar to the Feast of Purim (celebration of the salvation of Jews from Haman's wicked plot), Chanukah was simply a remembrance & celebration of the victory over the Seleucids. There is no connection to any appointed feasts or sacrifices that God had given them to observe. Therefore, to make a connection of Chanukah (a Festival of Lights) to the Light of the World (Jesus) would be incorrect - Christ's coming & Chanukah have no connection whatsoever.

Purim, Chanukah, & other Jewish festivals are purely that - times of remembrance & rejoicing. As one would celebrate Thanksgiving, so also the Jews have every right to remember their past with thanksgiving & if a non-Jew (whether Christian or not) wished to join their Jewish friends in celebration, I would see no biblical reason not to do so. The converse is also true: a Christian cannot celebrate Diwali (also a Festival of Light) with his Hindu friends, as that festival symbolizes victory of light over darkness, good over evil, knowledge over ignorance and is associated with various gods & goddesses. This type of celebration cannot be indulged in by the Christian as its roots are in idolatry.

Gbu Bro. Chris. But its in John 10 : 22 That says it was at Jerualem the Feast of Dedication and it was winter

which is the celebration of Chanukak where the Jews celebrate the festival of lights in Heriod's temple. As you said this was nothin to do with Chanukak.

John 10 ; 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch

John 10 : 30 I and my Father are one

John 10 : 31 Then the Jews took up stones AGAIN TO STONE HIM, the word Again implies a 2 nd time.

John 10 : 39 There fore they sought Again to take him a 3 rd time.

Chris no offence but we have only 1 light which is Christ the light of the world .

Remember what Jesus said about the light ,if your eye be single your whole body will be full of LIGHT. we

have no LIGHT but Jesus. Lets pray that our eye is single ,meaning we see only 1 light

And we have no temple but Jesus as he said abide in me and i in you

Jesus said there shall not be 1 stone left on another that shall not be cast down.

I understand now your reference to the Feast of Dedication as being what is referred to as Chanukah. Agreed.

I also understand that as believers, we only have Christ our Light & have no recourse to acknowledging any other significant light. But the lights used in that festival of remembrance don't signify or point to Christ - just an occasion of rejoicing in God's intervention in another sad time in Israel's history. In that case, we should abstain from lit birthday cake candles, outdoor party lights, etc. lest we irreverently detract our joy & light from Christ.

I realise you make connection with most things in the OT to the new (e.g. seeds, natural elements of the world & universe, etc.), but I don't believe that is a faithful translation & understanding of God's Word. So even here, the celebration of Chanukah with its lights, recollections & thanksgiving, cannot be connected to Christ our Light. Thank you for your input Alex.

This is an interesting conversation. I don't think that God wants us to participate in pagan worship.

I also think that He does want us to celebrate the good things in life. There are many ways to rejoice. There are some things that are fairly universal. Using light in some capacity one of these elements that is used across cultures. We use lights when we have a campfire, when we have an outdoor event in the evening, candles for birthday cakes, etc. These are not acts of worship. It is using light properly. We can rejoice in our life using all kinds of things : music, dancing, singing, creating artworks, whatever. Just because some pagans may use such tings corruptly doesn't take them off of the table for us to use in celebrating the good that God has brought into our lives.

Just my take on this. It is one of those things that Paul speaks about: all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial. And, to be careful that we do not use our liberty to cause someone else to stumble.

Thank you GiGi. I agree with you that 'light', indeed anything that God gives us or whatever we put our hands to make or perform, if done with right motives & without association with anything suspect or evil, ought to be done with a clear conscience & as unto the Lord.

However, what I sometimes see is, if it's in the Bible (especially seen in the OT), then any mention of it in the NT must correlate, to give spiritual sense & understanding to it. So, if we see God's Light or the light on the candlestick in the Tabernacle, then it must have a spiritual connection. This clearly can work, but when we see 'light' as in Job 3:16, should we understand this to euphemistically speak of stillbirth, or some other 'deeper' meaning of an unbeliever not receiving the Light of God? I've just made up this last part to show the way some could look at the Word.

And so with a celebration using light, food & a show of happiness & thankfulness, if done without an evil foundation, can this be treated as wrong, since that light isn't pointing to Christ, since He is our Light? True, the Jew doesn't recognize Jesus as Messiah, but Chanukah, as I understand it, isn't meant to reference Him but to reference the past. So then, can a Christian join a Jew in that celebration of remembrance or should we cast aside anything that a Jew does as being evil, since Jesus isn't their Lord? I guess, I would not have a problem with it, even using the occasion in some type of simple witness, though some would clearly have a problem with it. Thanks again.

Agreed, Chris. If I had a family member or friend who is Jewish, and they invited me to a dinner celebrating Chanukah, I would be glad to attend since the celebration is of something the True God did for His chosen nation. And, as you said, it could open a door for witnessing of Christ. Finding opportunities to build bridges with unbelievers in Jesus is important in gaining their respect and is often the catalyst for that "open door" for the gospel.

G.M. Chris lemme try to explain this 1 more time about the Jews and their Chanukak. While the Jews were celebrating Chanukak which was a 8 day Celebation in Heriods temple. They were trying to kill the light of the world 3 times they tried to stone the light of the world . And they were the same ones who cried crucify him. Which shows us that religion can be Satanic . Remember natural Israel was sola scriptura but they stoned almost every prophet that God sent them and rejected the Christ . Thats y i am lerry of this Jewish holiday and all religions. I love the Menora in the most Holy place the Ark of the Covenant , The Menora had 7 candle sticks which is a type of Christ the light of the world . Jesus is the light that cannot be put OUT, LIKE THE CANDLESTICK AND IN THAT IT HAD 7 BRANCHES IT IS a light that can be propagated in our hearts by his words. ( seeds ) There is nothin that can be compared to the real light of the world Christ Jesus.

Rev. 1 : 13 And in the midst of the 7 candlesticks i saw one like the Son of Man clothed to the foot and gird about the paps with a golden girdle .

So Alex, you've all along been trying to tell me that because the Jews were wanting to kill Jesus on the Feast of Dedication day, therefore for anyone to acknowledge or participate in that event (Chanukah), does great wrong as it's associated with wickedness.

If I use reasoning like that, then Matthew chapter 12 showing Jesus breaking the Sabbath (according to the Pharisees who then made plans to kill Him), would make Sabbath remembrance (or acknowledgement of it), a failure on God's part to institute such a day that invites sin. The Sabbath was sanctified by God - it was the Pharisees who had wicked hearts making it unholy. Chanukah is a valid Jewish Day of Remembrance - the Pharisees invalidated it by wanting to kill rather than praise God that they were alive now because God intervened to save many Jewish lives.

Let's not confuse that "the blindness & hardness of hearts" that were & are the state of most Jews, should ever cause us to think of them as evil. Rather, as Paul stated, that his prayer & heart's longing was for Israel to be saved. The Lord & His disciples not only participated in the various feasts but also reached out to those who gathered there. The state of man's heart is in question here, not the state of an honourable remembrance day.