Warning: session_start(): open(/var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80/sess_bissduktc3qac32jepuqdo6gut, O_RDWR) failed: No space left on device (28) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2
Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 175689
in Jeremiah chapter 44. Who do the Israelites worship as the queen of heaven. In other words what is her name and how did she come about. Is there any other referance to her in the bible?
Yes, so much of wat you say makes good spiritual sense. I don't think that the early church celebrated Jesus' birth, even though Mary was part of one of those fellowships and knew His birthdate. I don't think that birthdays were celebrated much in those times anyway. But if Mary had told the apostles the date of His birth, it wasn't preserved in Scripture for us to know. And yes, is death and resurrection was remembered and solemnly celebrated in their gatherings for worship. They had a meal, as you said, and I agree, the measly way we "do" communion now a days kind of "guts" the whole purpose of this ordinance, "to unify the believers in Christ."
So, I will be thinking about what you have said in regards to my questions and also see what others say. I don't plan to go against my conscience on this.
The queen of heaven the Israelites were worshipping was known to them as Astarte, Ashteroth, Asherah, or Ishtar. Originating in Sumer in the time of Nimrod, the queen of heaven was known as Inanna. When this idolatry traveled to Egypt after the Tower of Babel, she was known as Isis. Later, she was known as Eostre, (where we get our word Easter) Her festival was celebrated at the spring equinox. She was the goddess of fertility and of sexual love.
There also is the legend of that she was the mother or consort of Tammuz, who was "rebirthed" every December 25th. In Ezekiel 8:13-15, It is mentioned that the women were weeping for Tammuz. This is part of the way he was worshipped along with Ashtoreth. He was the sun-god, and she was the queen of heaven to rebirth him every year.
You can google both: "When was Jesus born?" and "Why do we celebrate Christ's birth on Dec. 25th?" I found a lot of helpful information about these questions.
During the Roman Empire, pagan religions abounded along with Christians and Jews. There were numerous pagan celebrations throughout the year. Many of these celebrations were an amalgamation of the various pagan idol stories going all the way back to Nimrod's day in Sumer shortly after the flood.
December 17-25th was celebrated as Saturnalia by many in the empire. It was coincided with winter solstice celebrations and the birth of such pagan gods as Tammuz and other son gods. the solstice was celebrated to "encourage" the rebirth of the sun, since these are the shortest days of the year.
In the time of Constantine, (300's A.D.) Christianity was welcomed in as an approved and preferred religion of the empire. In order to assist pagans into converting to Christianity, Constantine established the celebration of Christ's birth as December 2th to counter these pagan celebrations and Easter, to counter the spring equinox celebrations to Eostre, the queen of heaven and goddess of fertility.
I don't think we really know the sincerity of Constantine's heart to Christ or to convert pagans to Christianity. It may have been decided in order to maintain peace in the empire. It may have been that he was sincerely committed to his faith. He oversaw the Council of Nicea, where bishops from across the known church area met to address doctrinal issues, many of which were determined to be heretical by the council, and others re-affirmed.
This century was a big turning point for the church. Christianity was now beginning to be influenced by the government. It was a century or so later when the Christian faith was declared the faith of the empire and there was a merging of the church and state which we know as the Holy Roman Empire and Roman Catholic Church.
I have read a lot lately on the pagan aspects of Christmas and Easter. I have always ascribed Cristian meaning to all of the ways I have celebrated these holidays as an adult.
My question to ponder is: Jews, Christians, and pagans use incense, and candles, and altars. Are we to not use these things since pagans use them? Can we not use a tree, lights, songs to celebrate the birth of Christ since pagans use these things to celebrate the solstice, saturnalia, yule, etc.?
I am interested in hearing what others have to say. I don't want to be legalistic, because I do embrace the freedom we have in Christ through His blood and so we can partake of some things with a clear conscience. I am aware of the verse that says whatever is not of faith is sin.
I welcome contributions on this subject. I am sure they will vary. Have at it folks. I'm up for learning something new from the Spirit.
I never went into the "ho, ho, ho" part of it. I did not want to lie to my kids and thus compromise my witness to them. So we did without gifts from "Santa". We told them that we give them these gifts because we love them, just like God gave us Jesus because He loves us. As our sons got into young adults, we stopped with the wrapped gifts. Instead we give them a money gift for them to use as they wish. I got tired of having to return and exchange things that I bought for them when they were teens. They are happy with the money gift. It helps them to choose something they really desire or need. Eliminating the gift buying took a big load off me .Instead, we put money together as a family to help a charitable cause. It freed me up to spend time with family and friends in more meaningful ways. Unfortunately, now that families have grown up and expanded, we do not get together as often as when our kids were young and growing up. The time we get together during holiday times is important, as it is one of the few times a year that we all get together just a few who may not be in attendance. heir own.
Year by year, we are scaling back from all the hoopla of Christmas. My heart wishes to magnify Christ at this time. e is the light that overcomes the darkness. Even if pagans used the date to worship idols, we can choose to worship Jesus and point others to Him at this time. So in this way, we sanctify the date and take it back from the evil one.
But as several of you have implied, pagan is pagan, and there should not be mixing of such practices with Christian practices.
Hi GiGi. Your comments on the historical aspects of what we refer to as Christian festivals/commemoration made great reading & reflected the actual roots of these celebrations. As much as I agree with the use of various 'religious accoutrements', one must ascertain not only the origin of them but also how they can be perceived by others, given their history & use. And of course, if there is any biblical evidence of them. It's not for me to be opinionated on this matter, as each person has to be convinced in his own mind, but I like to, as much as I can, envision what the early Church believed & did & what the Scriptures have to say about it or allude to it.
I may well be wrong because of insufficient evidence, but I don't believe that the early Church, under the direction of the apostles, set any particular day(s) aside for remembering Christ's Birth & Death. What we do read is, as appointed to them from the Lord, that whenever they come together to worship, fellowship & enjoy meals together, that a time be set aside to remember the Lord Who bought them. And so we have Paul's strong criticism & admonition of the Corinthians ( 1 Corinthians 11:20-30) for treating the fellowship meal & subsequent remembrance of the Lord as an orgy of gluttony & drunkeness. It ought to be treated as a special holy occasion of rembrance & giving of thanks for God's 'unspeakable gift' to them. I feel that both the Christmas & Easter sentiments were encapsulated in this fellowship feast, believers taking a moment to break bread from that meal & drink of that cup, to remember the Lord. Today, of course, mostly our celebration at the Lord's Table consist of a miniscule piece of wafer & even a smaller amount of juice, though convenient for our larger congregations, makes some mockery of the proper design of this blessed time. That said, maybe having Christmas & Easter celebrations will actually give some more reason to make it special.
Yes, so much of wat you say makes good spiritual sense. I don't think that the early church celebrated Jesus' birth, even though Mary was part of one of those fellowships and knew His birthdate. I don't think that birthdays were celebrated much in those times anyway. But if Mary had told the apostles the date of His birth, it wasn't preserved in Scripture for us to know. And yes, is death and resurrection was remembered and solemnly celebrated in their gatherings for worship. They had a meal, as you said, and I agree, the measly way we "do" communion now a days kind of "guts" the whole purpose of this ordinance, "to unify the believers in Christ."
So, I will be thinking about what you have said in regards to my questions and also see what others say. I don't plan to go against my conscience on this.
Yes, so much of wat you say makes good spiritual sense. I don't think that the early church celebrated Jesus' birth, even though Mary was part of one of those fellowships and knew His birthdate. I don't think that birthdays were celebrated much in those times anyway. But if Mary had told the apostles the date of His birth, it wasn't preserved in Scripture for us to know. And yes, is death and resurrection was remembered and solemnly celebrated in their gatherings for worship. They had a meal, as you said, and I agree, the measly way we "do" communion now a days kind of "guts" the whole purpose of this ordinance, "to unify the believers in Christ."
So, I will be thinking about what you have said in regards to my questions and also see what others say. I don't plan to go against my conscience on this.
the queen of heaven which is tied to Astrology which is worship of the stars which developed some year
after the rise of Nimrod who's kingdom was the beginning of Babylon, not good.
Definitely worth a "look up".
The queen of heaven the Israelites were worshipping was known to them as Astarte, Ashteroth, Asherah, or Ishtar. Originating in Sumer in the time of Nimrod, the queen of heaven was known as Inanna. When this idolatry traveled to Egypt after the Tower of Babel, she was known as Isis. Later, she was known as Eostre, (where we get our word Easter) Her festival was celebrated at the spring equinox. She was the goddess of fertility and of sexual love.
There also is the legend of that she was the mother or consort of Tammuz, who was "rebirthed" every December 25th. In Ezekiel 8:13-15, It is mentioned that the women were weeping for Tammuz. This is part of the way he was worshipped along with Ashtoreth. He was the sun-god, and she was the queen of heaven to rebirth him every year.
You can google both: "When was Jesus born?" and "Why do we celebrate Christ's birth on Dec. 25th?" I found a lot of helpful information about these questions.
During the Roman Empire, pagan religions abounded along with Christians and Jews. There were numerous pagan celebrations throughout the year. Many of these celebrations were an amalgamation of the various pagan idol stories going all the way back to Nimrod's day in Sumer shortly after the flood.
December 17-25th was celebrated as Saturnalia by many in the empire. It was coincided with winter solstice celebrations and the birth of such pagan gods as Tammuz and other son gods. the solstice was celebrated to "encourage" the rebirth of the sun, since these are the shortest days of the year.
In the time of Constantine, (300's A.D.) Christianity was welcomed in as an approved and preferred religion of the empire. In order to assist pagans into converting to Christianity, Constantine established the celebration of Christ's birth as December 2th to counter these pagan celebrations and Easter, to counter the spring equinox celebrations to Eostre, the queen of heaven and goddess of fertility.
I don't think we really know the sincerity of Constantine's heart to Christ or to convert pagans to Christianity. It may have been decided in order to maintain peace in the empire. It may have been that he was sincerely committed to his faith. He oversaw the Council of Nicea, where bishops from across the known church area met to address doctrinal issues, many of which were determined to be heretical by the council, and others re-affirmed.
This century was a big turning point for the church. Christianity was now beginning to be influenced by the government. It was a century or so later when the Christian faith was declared the faith of the empire and there was a merging of the church and state which we know as the Holy Roman Empire and Roman Catholic Church.
I hope this helps.
believe or do what they do they just go along with the crowd so to speak. When it comes to God and His Word
if it doesn't fit don't wear it, I.E. believe it.
I have read a lot lately on the pagan aspects of Christmas and Easter. I have always ascribed Cristian meaning to all of the ways I have celebrated these holidays as an adult.
My question to ponder is: Jews, Christians, and pagans use incense, and candles, and altars. Are we to not use these things since pagans use them? Can we not use a tree, lights, songs to celebrate the birth of Christ since pagans use these things to celebrate the solstice, saturnalia, yule, etc.?
I am interested in hearing what others have to say. I don't want to be legalistic, because I do embrace the freedom we have in Christ through His blood and so we can partake of some things with a clear conscience. I am aware of the verse that says whatever is not of faith is sin.
I welcome contributions on this subject. I am sure they will vary. Have at it folks. I'm up for learning something new from the Spirit.
Christ birth or resurrection, in matters of principle stand like a rock. In matters of taste flow with the current, I'm
not the judge I just answer to Him. It does amaze me the greed and lust that get triggered by the celebration
in the world. Jesus Christ led captivity captive so I don't get caught up so to speak in it. That being stated its a great time
speak the TRUTH IN LOVE.
what's going on. I'm not a scrooge if someone who believes goes all out for HoHo, prayerfully their all
out the rest of the year they have the same zeal for Walking by the spirit. That's my only point. Also do
you give because you want to to or you feel you have to! One has heart the other is guilt.
I never went into the "ho, ho, ho" part of it. I did not want to lie to my kids and thus compromise my witness to them. So we did without gifts from "Santa". We told them that we give them these gifts because we love them, just like God gave us Jesus because He loves us. As our sons got into young adults, we stopped with the wrapped gifts. Instead we give them a money gift for them to use as they wish. I got tired of having to return and exchange things that I bought for them when they were teens. They are happy with the money gift. It helps them to choose something they really desire or need. Eliminating the gift buying took a big load off me .Instead, we put money together as a family to help a charitable cause. It freed me up to spend time with family and friends in more meaningful ways. Unfortunately, now that families have grown up and expanded, we do not get together as often as when our kids were young and growing up. The time we get together during holiday times is important, as it is one of the few times a year that we all get together just a few who may not be in attendance. heir own.
Year by year, we are scaling back from all the hoopla of Christmas. My heart wishes to magnify Christ at this time. e is the light that overcomes the darkness. Even if pagans used the date to worship idols, we can choose to worship Jesus and point others to Him at this time. So in this way, we sanctify the date and take it back from the evil one.
But as several of you have implied, pagan is pagan, and there should not be mixing of such practices with Christian practices.
I may well be wrong because of insufficient evidence, but I don't believe that the early Church, under the direction of the apostles, set any particular day(s) aside for remembering Christ's Birth & Death. What we do read is, as appointed to them from the Lord, that whenever they come together to worship, fellowship & enjoy meals together, that a time be set aside to remember the Lord Who bought them. And so we have Paul's strong criticism & admonition of the Corinthians ( 1 Corinthians 11:20-30) for treating the fellowship meal & subsequent remembrance of the Lord as an orgy of gluttony & drunkeness. It ought to be treated as a special holy occasion of rembrance & giving of thanks for God's 'unspeakable gift' to them. I feel that both the Christmas & Easter sentiments were encapsulated in this fellowship feast, believers taking a moment to break bread from that meal & drink of that cup, to remember the Lord. Today, of course, mostly our celebration at the Lord's Table consist of a miniscule piece of wafer & even a smaller amount of juice, though convenient for our larger congregations, makes some mockery of the proper design of this blessed time. That said, maybe having Christmas & Easter celebrations will actually give some more reason to make it special.
Yes, so much of wat you say makes good spiritual sense. I don't think that the early church celebrated Jesus' birth, even though Mary was part of one of those fellowships and knew His birthdate. I don't think that birthdays were celebrated much in those times anyway. But if Mary had told the apostles the date of His birth, it wasn't preserved in Scripture for us to know. And yes, is death and resurrection was remembered and solemnly celebrated in their gatherings for worship. They had a meal, as you said, and I agree, the measly way we "do" communion now a days kind of "guts" the whole purpose of this ordinance, "to unify the believers in Christ."
So, I will be thinking about what you have said in regards to my questions and also see what others say. I don't plan to go against my conscience on this.
be the same as what the children of Israel did in the old testament? The only thing about Ho ho that's part truth
is that Christ was Born, the only reason gifts are given is in some circles that wise men brought gifts but
they didn't show up until he was at least 1-2 years old. Other than that the HOLY day 25th Dec. isn't
Holy in Gods Eyes, just food for thought. That being said I'm thankful that at least perhaps some people think
about Gods Word at least a little bit maybe. We are not supposed to be worldly, food for thought!
and made it a mix of paganism and so called christianity also tied in is the Roman worship saturnalia
or planet of Saturn. Passed down over time the church in Rome took these festivals so called and tied them
to december 25th as the birthday of christ. Actual Date has been researched to Sept. 11th 3 B.C.
This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.
Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?