There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into (heaven) Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, BEING IN TORMENTS, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26
And beside all this, between us and you there is a GREAT GULF FIXED: so that they which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there.
27
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Hell)
29
Abraham saith unto him, They have (the Law of) Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. (In the Bible)
30
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (Jesus)
This story shows that the rich man is conscious, can feel pain, thirst and terror for, still alive; unsaved friends and relatives.
We can miss those who've passed on. We can voice our feelings to them, forgive them for hurting us; or us hurting them. They're not going to hear us.
Agreed, Rick. We are among the living here on earth and our focus should be one those we have fellowship here and now. We can pray for each other, but not for the dead. We can trust that God judges justly in all things and rest in that. If someone dies a believer, our fellowship will be renewed in the resurrection, until then, it is advised for people to stay away from anything that involves praying to or contacting the dead. It is prohibited in Scripture, called necromancy, a type of divination.
necromancy is talking to the dead about fortune telling or magic. not just talking to the dead as you stated, Edmund Freud is the father of talk therapy, Carl Jung continued his work. That thought or discipline is used today to help heal others that need closer in their lives.
Consider reading slower for understanding to gain wisdom. TJCWP.
it is necromancy when talking to the dead about fortune telling, talking to the dead is not necromancy. I talk to Jesus Christ all the time with a contrite heart through prayer and because I know he will listen.
I hold that steadfastly and it's in "The Holy Bible."
If it is necromancy to "talk" to the dead, why then do we have funerals and build graveyards with roads so we can put flowers on the grave? Sit on a bench and REMEMBER that persons life?
Is it just an industry someone invented? Why do we use graveyards? Isn't it a waste of prime real estate?
Why did Michael the Archangel (the Angel of War) fight with satan over Moses's body?
Why do we have a huge complex in Wash DC in honor of unknown dead soldiers?
I don't know. I miss my parents and sometimes I talk to the air and remember good things they did for me.
It's really uptight and sorta mean, to hammer people for missing loved ones. We should just throw out these scriptures below,
That's a good verse. I was forgiven of a lot of low-living. I was peeled just like an onion; piece by piece until I was bare and Had NOTHING to save me. A very bad time. Death looked good to me. But Jesus dropped into my wreckage and pulled me up to the land of the living.
After I'd been saved some months I leaped into evangelism. You know wee kids with their Daddies taking them out trick r treating? I felt like the Lord was with me no matter all the mess. I fell in with a storefront church; most of them were street preachers. I heard the Call. Thirty years later, it's still my passion.
All that discussion of sharing hopes of seeing my saved relatives someday in heaven_is externalizing. I know they're dead, gee whiz. My Favorite times are sharing my soul-winning prayers with the LORD OF THE HARVEST. If I see disasters on tv, I pray about everything! It's an on-going conversation with the Holy Spirit. He lives in me, and I live in Him. He desires to have relationship with US. Im sorta solitary, but have kids and I love them enough to keep a wall of prayer around them; and extended family too. I care deeply about war vets who are closed off inside their pain. I stand in the gap for them. Satan hates my guts and I give him lotsa trouble. He fights dirty and I fight as Jesus taught me: on my knees in prayer and exceeding Praise of the Lord!
Television is not real life. It's like opium. You don't feel life anymore.
I watch news of Signs of the Time. Jesus said to watch and Look Up, which is what most of us are doing. We're missing signs. All hell is busting out. Do you see it?
We are given Dominion, Power and Authority to open eyes and ears in the Name of Jesus. Remind Satan he's NOT human and has no authority to destroy a life. He's the ultimate ILLEGAL ex-archangel. He stirred up storms on Job. He's still doing it. SO PRAY LIKE A CHILD OF GOD. Use your authority in Jesus's Name. Send them into wilderness. Then praise JESUS for the victory.
I never said that we should not recall and remember loved ones. I have no problem with visiting a grave or special place of one we have lost. The original topic was praying for the dead and attempting to make contact with them as Reynaldo spoke about in the Day of the Dead practices e mentioned.
I know everyone has ways to remember loved ones who have died. As family, we talk a lot about my dad and his quirkiness and laugh. So, I really doo not think I am hammering anyone. My post must have struck a nerve and I am sorry that it did, but my intentions was to address the topic of praying for or to those who have died, especially if one is trying to make contact with a dead loved one. I have read your many posts about warding off demonic influences, and I think these practices open up such doorways for demons to interact with people. So, that is why I am speaking against these practices.
Day of the dead has been observed for over 3,000 years. These days Catholics honor those that have gone before us on November 1st (for children) and November 2nd (for adults.) It is raining heavily every day, somewhere. It doesn't mean loss is all there is! When we ask for the dead to come celebrate this one day with us it is talk to them to exchange words unsaid. We also dawn on a skeleton mask to scare them off after this day of talk therapy, we don't want them to stick around... read about talk therapy that is still used today in Psychology and Psychiatric Counseling. Freud fathered it and Carl Jung embellished it. We use talk therapy all over the world in Education, and in business (naming a couple of disciplines) to meet the needs of the world we live in. Without talking it out we wouldn't have the written language. Without talking we might as well be mute. Get it out of your system, out of your heart, ie. love, for it is right to give him thanks and praise. Have you ever met Jesus Christ our Savior? Neither have I, but I still talk to the Lord, our God.
I can go on, so I will. Spanish was the first language I spoke, English 2nd. years later I mastered the English vernacular as I was born in America. Through pictures and visions, along with mentors of many ethnicities I learned to learned and it garnered me wisdom that I use today to help our living brothers and sisters in Christ. We do not forget our ancestral history. We must not forget those that gave us our freedom that we have today. Are we to embellish those attributes and be idle? There are many ways of life, together we can seek truth. Just imagine it and then live it. Through Jesus Christ we pray, Amen.
Thank you for sharing more about the Day of the Dead. I understand that it is part of your heritage.
I still think that it is necromancy when one tries to contact someone wo is deceased to converse with them or have them present in a situation, regardless if there is fortune telling or "magic" involved. So, I do not do it, myself.
As to speaking to Jesus, we are encouraged to pray to God and the Holy spirit interacts with us. That is different. One is dealing with God, who is unique and in a class of Being all by himself. It differs from "communicating" to or with people who have died. But I can let this conversation go for today. Thanks for you input.
it was wrong and it is still talked about it today.
misunderstanding a definition or any false assumptions caters to the evil one.
letting go of something for self-perseverance reminds me of the quote " you are in America, you can want all you want, but it doesn't make it right. btw. It is not heritage, it is culture.
When people die That is a teaching given to emphasize a point that if people aren't going to believe scripture from the living they won't believe from the dead. Look at context.
I had peace with my Dads death. But when my mother died I was conflicted for a time just because of the way my family acted. I was in a state of exhaustion taking care of her and babysitting my toddler grandson 5 days a week, for 3 years.
My son and niece took my mother to her house; it was for to be 1 week. Long story short, my mother died there. They wanted to think they did good, but I was angry at their plotting.
I let go and let God work this out.
I kept it to myself, but I prayed to God on behalf of my mom and me. Not to her. It was a bad time because everyone thought their ideas were best. Strong personalities, you know? My son thought I'd be happier if I moved to a different place. I did just to get away from
Mismanagement and those who "think they know better, what's best." I lived through losing 2 brothers to drugs, my Dads death from Alzheimer's, and my Mother to dementia; within 5 years.
I weathered it. The Lord is my Comforter. I'm well, happy and get to minister every day now.
My parents are in heaven and that makes this easier.
Try to be more Spirit led when assessing how others should grieve. They're hurting with loss. The Bible says to cry with those who cry. Not in a morose way, but in "arms around". Laugh with those who are laughing.
Bless You Mishael, That is a story of hard losses in a short time. I am sorry it was that way, but God chooses what is best, I believe.
My dad died 32 years ago when I was 32. He had two back to back heart attacks within hours of each other and was gone quickly. Today, I was visiting my 88 year old Mom and she mentioned to me how she had talked with someone who was our neighbor for many years. Her husband is in a wheelchair now, having had several strokes. She is caregiving for him. so my mom mentioned, that it was a blessing that my dad died as e did, because she thinks it would be so hard for her to do caregiving for him now. So that was good to hear her say that. I miss my dad, but I know he had the beginnings of emphysema and is later years would have been miserable for him. God was merciful to him.
sometimes we are selfish in our wants and needs. many bad parents, evil men or women were gone before their time.
As you stated, taking care of a loved one can seem impossible and sometimes it is or just not doable. The evil persons that are not taken (have died) and need caring can be supported even if we don't think they deserve it. We would rather hang and/or imprison them than rehab them as their choices are not our problem.
God is merciful, don't be afraid. Stating that it is bad for others to care for the sick when not able to, in your stated case, and calling it merciful by God's hand is misaligned. Do not be afraid. Pray for the ones that are in need of understanding of their merciful and serving life's. Through Jesus Christ we pray. Amen.
I am not sure if you understood me correctly in what I said about my dad. e was a believer and God took him before we were ready, but we accept that God makes the best decisions. He was merciful to my dad in taking him before e had to suffer the effects of emphysema whatever else old age would have brought him. My mom, siblings, and I all recognize this. As to being a caregiver for someone close to us. Most of us who know the Lord do so with love and concern for that person. But it is hard to do for some because they themselves may be advanced in years and the work is taxing on them. The neighbor my Mom spoke to is in her 80's, too, and her and her husband still live together in a condo. she has some outside help come in daily. That is all I was saying. I think you over-spiritualized it a bit.
We will see them again. My sons cousin, same age, died in a 18 wheeler crash. His buddy driver had too much to drink that day and couldn't drive. My nephew did back to back shifts.
He fell asleep. Was observed going off road, and the truck leaped a storm culvert. He died instantly. He was like a son to me.
Loss teaches us the brevity of life. To let go of all the issues, and just love. Live well and know we'll see them again.
Be wise as a serpent; mild as a dove. If we discern evil, we must cover with our prayers. Fight like the Lion of Judah. My son blamed God and walked away from Him. I prayed for 20 years! He's back now. Has asked to be restored.
Don't give up on those who hurt. Pray for them to meet the Healer and Lover of our souls.
Sigmund Freud called it talk therapy which is still used today in mental health care. we are doing more for mental health disease. In this discipline we use it to get things out in the open for our Savior to be beckon.
Lord, it is tight to give you thanks and praise, please hear my plea. Raul was my favorite Uncle and in life he served you Lord, with a contrite heart. As I talk about our past with Raul for closer it is without expecting an answer form my Uncle Raul. Let others learn from my plea. Through Jesus Christ we pray. Amen.
Hi Marlo. The accepted canon of Scriptures does not speak of 'praying for the dead', but those who do believe in praying for the departed, generally appeal to the apocryphal book, 2 Maccabees 12:36-45.
If you look at that passage (you can see those books here on this Site), you will not only read of an instance of praying for the dead but also about offering of some silver as a sin offering. I hope you will see the extreme error of this belief & action, as once a person passes away from this life, there remains no further chance to correct past sins & errors. And only the Blood of Christ can make full payment for forgiving mankind's sins & no money, self-mutilation or prayers can ever add to that great Sacrifice. Please be careful if you are entertaining such thoughts or beliefs in your mind & be careful when reading those apocryphal books.
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into (heaven) Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, BEING IN TORMENTS, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26
And beside all this, between us and you there is a GREAT GULF FIXED: so that they which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there.
27
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Hell)
29
Abraham saith unto him, They have (the Law of) Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. (In the Bible)
30
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (Jesus)
This story shows that the rich man is conscious, can feel pain, thirst and terror for, still alive; unsaved friends and relatives.
We can miss those who've passed on. We can voice our feelings to them, forgive them for hurting us; or us hurting them. They're not going to hear us.
Consider reading slower for understanding to gain wisdom. TJCWP.
Through Jesus Christ we pray. Amen.
I hold that steadfastly and it's in "The Holy Bible."
Is it just an industry someone invented? Why do we use graveyards? Isn't it a waste of prime real estate?
Why did Michael the Archangel (the Angel of War) fight with satan over Moses's body?
Why do we have a huge complex in Wash DC in honor of unknown dead soldiers?
I don't know. I miss my parents and sometimes I talk to the air and remember good things they did for me.
It's really uptight and sorta mean, to hammer people for missing loved ones. We should just throw out these scriptures below,
1 Thessalonians 4:18; 5:11
Wherefore comfort one another
After I'd been saved some months I leaped into evangelism. You know wee kids with their Daddies taking them out trick r treating? I felt like the Lord was with me no matter all the mess. I fell in with a storefront church; most of them were street preachers. I heard the Call. Thirty years later, it's still my passion.
All that discussion of sharing hopes of seeing my saved relatives someday in heaven_is externalizing. I know they're dead, gee whiz. My Favorite times are sharing my soul-winning prayers with the LORD OF THE HARVEST. If I see disasters on tv, I pray about everything! It's an on-going conversation with the Holy Spirit. He lives in me, and I live in Him. He desires to have relationship with US. Im sorta solitary, but have kids and I love them enough to keep a wall of prayer around them; and extended family too. I care deeply about war vets who are closed off inside their pain. I stand in the gap for them. Satan hates my guts and I give him lotsa trouble. He fights dirty and I fight as Jesus taught me: on my knees in prayer and exceeding Praise of the Lord!
Television is not real life. It's like opium. You don't feel life anymore.
I watch news of Signs of the Time. Jesus said to watch and Look Up, which is what most of us are doing. We're missing signs. All hell is busting out. Do you see it?
We are given Dominion, Power and Authority to open eyes and ears in the Name of Jesus. Remind Satan he's NOT human and has no authority to destroy a life. He's the ultimate ILLEGAL ex-archangel. He stirred up storms on Job. He's still doing it. SO PRAY LIKE A CHILD OF GOD. Use your authority in Jesus's Name. Send them into wilderness. Then praise JESUS for the victory.
I never said that we should not recall and remember loved ones. I have no problem with visiting a grave or special place of one we have lost. The original topic was praying for the dead and attempting to make contact with them as Reynaldo spoke about in the Day of the Dead practices e mentioned.
I know everyone has ways to remember loved ones who have died. As family, we talk a lot about my dad and his quirkiness and laugh. So, I really doo not think I am hammering anyone. My post must have struck a nerve and I am sorry that it did, but my intentions was to address the topic of praying for or to those who have died, especially if one is trying to make contact with a dead loved one. I have read your many posts about warding off demonic influences, and I think these practices open up such doorways for demons to interact with people. So, that is why I am speaking against these practices.
God Bless You this Day, Mishael
I can go on, so I will. Spanish was the first language I spoke, English 2nd. years later I mastered the English vernacular as I was born in America. Through pictures and visions, along with mentors of many ethnicities I learned to learned and it garnered me wisdom that I use today to help our living brothers and sisters in Christ. We do not forget our ancestral history. We must not forget those that gave us our freedom that we have today. Are we to embellish those attributes and be idle? There are many ways of life, together we can seek truth. Just imagine it and then live it. Through Jesus Christ we pray, Amen.
Thank you for sharing more about the Day of the Dead. I understand that it is part of your heritage.
I still think that it is necromancy when one tries to contact someone wo is deceased to converse with them or have them present in a situation, regardless if there is fortune telling or "magic" involved. So, I do not do it, myself.
As to speaking to Jesus, we are encouraged to pray to God and the Holy spirit interacts with us. That is different. One is dealing with God, who is unique and in a class of Being all by himself. It differs from "communicating" to or with people who have died. But I can let this conversation go for today. Thanks for you input.
it was wrong and it is still talked about it today.
misunderstanding a definition or any false assumptions caters to the evil one.
letting go of something for self-perseverance reminds me of the quote " you are in America, you can want all you want, but it doesn't make it right. btw. It is not heritage, it is culture.
I understand that it is culture. Thanks for clarifying since it seems to matter much to you.
discussed briefly, if not moving on.
I had peace with my Dads death. But when my mother died I was conflicted for a time just because of the way my family acted. I was in a state of exhaustion taking care of her and babysitting my toddler grandson 5 days a week, for 3 years.
My son and niece took my mother to her house; it was for to be 1 week. Long story short, my mother died there. They wanted to think they did good, but I was angry at their plotting.
I let go and let God work this out.
I kept it to myself, but I prayed to God on behalf of my mom and me. Not to her. It was a bad time because everyone thought their ideas were best. Strong personalities, you know? My son thought I'd be happier if I moved to a different place. I did just to get away from
Mismanagement and those who "think they know better, what's best." I lived through losing 2 brothers to drugs, my Dads death from Alzheimer's, and my Mother to dementia; within 5 years.
I weathered it. The Lord is my Comforter. I'm well, happy and get to minister every day now.
My parents are in heaven and that makes this easier.
Try to be more Spirit led when assessing how others should grieve. They're hurting with loss. The Bible says to cry with those who cry. Not in a morose way, but in "arms around". Laugh with those who are laughing.
Blessed Christmas. Peace, Mishael
My dad died 32 years ago when I was 32. He had two back to back heart attacks within hours of each other and was gone quickly. Today, I was visiting my 88 year old Mom and she mentioned to me how she had talked with someone who was our neighbor for many years. Her husband is in a wheelchair now, having had several strokes. She is caregiving for him. so my mom mentioned, that it was a blessing that my dad died as e did, because she thinks it would be so hard for her to do caregiving for him now. So that was good to hear her say that. I miss my dad, but I know he had the beginnings of emphysema and is later years would have been miserable for him. God was merciful to him.
As you stated, taking care of a loved one can seem impossible and sometimes it is or just not doable. The evil persons that are not taken (have died) and need caring can be supported even if we don't think they deserve it. We would rather hang and/or imprison them than rehab them as their choices are not our problem.
God is merciful, don't be afraid. Stating that it is bad for others to care for the sick when not able to, in your stated case, and calling it merciful by God's hand is misaligned. Do not be afraid. Pray for the ones that are in need of understanding of their merciful and serving life's. Through Jesus Christ we pray. Amen.
I am not sure if you understood me correctly in what I said about my dad. e was a believer and God took him before we were ready, but we accept that God makes the best decisions. He was merciful to my dad in taking him before e had to suffer the effects of emphysema whatever else old age would have brought him. My mom, siblings, and I all recognize this. As to being a caregiver for someone close to us. Most of us who know the Lord do so with love and concern for that person. But it is hard to do for some because they themselves may be advanced in years and the work is taxing on them. The neighbor my Mom spoke to is in her 80's, too, and her and her husband still live together in a condo. she has some outside help come in daily. That is all I was saying. I think you over-spiritualized it a bit.
He fell asleep. Was observed going off road, and the truck leaped a storm culvert. He died instantly. He was like a son to me.
Loss teaches us the brevity of life. To let go of all the issues, and just love. Live well and know we'll see them again.
Be wise as a serpent; mild as a dove. If we discern evil, we must cover with our prayers. Fight like the Lion of Judah. My son blamed God and walked away from Him. I prayed for 20 years! He's back now. Has asked to be restored.
Don't give up on those who hurt. Pray for them to meet the Healer and Lover of our souls.
We can't talk to them or anything else they are dead. Taking it further is not profitable in any category
and reading anything that teaches otherwise is way out there biblically!
Lord, it is tight to give you thanks and praise, please hear my plea. Raul was my favorite Uncle and in life he served you Lord, with a contrite heart. As I talk about our past with Raul for closer it is without expecting an answer form my Uncle Raul. Let others learn from my plea. Through Jesus Christ we pray. Amen.
If you look at that passage (you can see those books here on this Site), you will not only read of an instance of praying for the dead but also about offering of some silver as a sin offering. I hope you will see the extreme error of this belief & action, as once a person passes away from this life, there remains no further chance to correct past sins & errors. And only the Blood of Christ can make full payment for forgiving mankind's sins & no money, self-mutilation or prayers can ever add to that great Sacrifice. Please be careful if you are entertaining such thoughts or beliefs in your mind & be careful when reading those apocryphal books.
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