The Bible does not teach eternal conscious torment. The consistent testimony of scripture is that "the wages of sin is death," and not eternal life. Romans 6:23; Genesis 2:17; Ezekiel 18:30-32; 1 John 5:12. It was the devil who first taught that one could sin and still have eternal life. Genesis 3:4. Jesus came to save us from perishing, and to give us eternal life, not to save us from living forever. John 3:16.
Hellfire is something that takes place at the end of this world, and not at death. John 5:28,29; Matthew 13:40. In it, soul and body are completely destroyed. Matthew 10:28; 2 Thess 1:9. It will consume the wicked into ashes. Revelation 20:9; Malachi 4:1-3; Psalm 37:20. Even the devil will be consumed to ashes. Ezekiel 28:18,19; Isaiah 47:14.
In the new earth, when all sin has been eradicated, there will be no more suffering or pain or death. Revelation 21:4.
Hi Square. You've stated that 'soul & body are completely destroyed at the end of this world'.
Could you expand on that aspect? What is the difference between me dying now & returning to dust or ashes and the wicked also likewise destroyed in death? If their bodies, like mine return to ashes, where is their judgement? If their spirits & souls also become ashes (which I can't fathom how that can happen), where is the judgement & punishment?
If you mean that they will never enjoy eternal life with God, as far as I know, most sinners would be quite happy to be exterminated just so that they can enjoy their days on Earth as they wish, fulfilling their every lust. Surely, the Gospel given, brings a greater weight & conviction than just a future annihilation?
Finally, what should we do with the Scripture ( Mark 9:44,46) where Jesus warns that the wicked's worm (flesh) never dies (or, consumes away) in hell's fire? And Revelation 20:11-15.
I was quoting Jesus in that case, who says that God is able to destroy both body and soul in hellfire. Matthew 10:28.
The Bible teaches us two resurrections: one for the just, and one for the unjust. John 5:28-29. The righteous are resurrected at the second coming of Christ, and those who are alive and remain at His coming are given new bodies at that time. 1 Thess 4:13-17; 1 Cor 15:51-53. After the thousand years, the unjust are resurrected, and at that time they face their judgment, which is total annihilation (and not without suffering). Revelation 20:4.
When Christ speaks of the worm that dies not, he is quoting from a passage in Isiaiah: Isaiah 66:24. This verse speaks of worms eating on the corpses of dead men. It is the worm that does not die, but the people are well dead, for they are merely corpses. There is no reason we should interpret worm here to mean "immortal soul," for there is no such thing. The soul that sins shall die: Ezekiel 18:4
The word Jesus uses in Mark 9:44,46 is Gehenna, which was a place of refuse. They kept the piles of garbage there burning so that it would be consumed away. This is the illustration Jesus employed for the fires of hell: fires which burn up all the garbage and get rid of it.
As for whether cessation from existence or eternal conscious torment are more terrifying to the wicked man... How many atheists have been made out of the doctrine of eternal conscious torment, which is not true? They reject God because they think He is a monster, when in reality He is not. How are we supposed to love God with all of our heart if He is more sadistic than the worst madman we can imagine? That's precisely why the devil loves this doctrine.
Revelation 20:11-15 describes the wicked, as well as death and hell, being cast into the lake of fire. The lake of fire here is symbolic of total destruction. Death is being abolished, as well as the grave, as well as all the wicked and all sin.
Thank you for those additional comments. We could spend much time discussing the points you raised, to no avail, as we understand the Scriptures on this doctrine in a different way.
The point that is of the essence here is: if there is no eternal condemnation & suffering for Christ-rejecting sinners, then what is the judgement for that rejection? You suggest that the grave now & then after the resurrection & judgement, death again (& annihilation) is the punishment.
You also state that atheists will remain more so because of the teaching of this eternal suffering doctrine. This could be true, but I also see that atheists will remain in their condition because there is no further accountability upon them for their rejection of God.
So the question: if both the child of God & the unrighteous have to face death & the grave, where is the punishment of sinners that we read of in the Word? That the unrighteous are resurrected one day & then annihilated again doesn't seem to be any different judgement than what we all will face in death. And then the matter about the part of us which is indestructible (the soul & spirit); what happens here?
No adequate answer can be given to such questions unless we understand God's Judgement on sinners is far more than just an annihilation but an eternal suffering while those made righteous through Christ enjoy eternal life with Him. We may not always preach a hell-fire Gospel, but that has always been the impetus that drove the apostles to preach & to lay down their lives for the Gospel. If only death was the terminus for the sinner, there would be no compelling need to preach the Gospel - just a "come to Jesus, believe, get saved & have eternal life" Gospel. We have to get saved so that God's Judgement for our sin doesn't fall upon us. At least that's why I was saved: by fleeing the judgement in an eternal hell & running into the Arms of a Loving & Merciful Saviour.
"O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!"
Hellfire is something that takes place at the end of this world, and not at death. John 5:28,29; Matthew 13:40. In it, soul and body are completely destroyed. Matthew 10:28; 2 Thess 1:9. It will consume the wicked into ashes. Revelation 20:9; Malachi 4:1-3; Psalm 37:20. Even the devil will be consumed to ashes. Ezekiel 28:18,19; Isaiah 47:14.
In the new earth, when all sin has been eradicated, there will be no more suffering or pain or death. Revelation 21:4.
the believers in The body of Christ will be raised with incorruptible bodies to meet the Lord in the Air
Lord being Jesus Christ[Resurrection before Tribulation ] 2 Thess.1-12 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Then in
Revelation you have the resurrection of the Just before the Grace time frame and unjust those who Didn't believe period
the just according to works and the unjust will be eternal toast in the Gehenna translated Hell with the adversary
and his messengers in key parts of the scripture then given the scripture all that ever lived will deal with being judged
period when you look at it scripturally and eventually raised to either eternal torment or Glory biblically. That's what I gather, God
is no respecter of persons only conditions and the condition is It Is Written.
Could you expand on that aspect? What is the difference between me dying now & returning to dust or ashes and the wicked also likewise destroyed in death? If their bodies, like mine return to ashes, where is their judgement? If their spirits & souls also become ashes (which I can't fathom how that can happen), where is the judgement & punishment?
If you mean that they will never enjoy eternal life with God, as far as I know, most sinners would be quite happy to be exterminated just so that they can enjoy their days on Earth as they wish, fulfilling their every lust. Surely, the Gospel given, brings a greater weight & conviction than just a future annihilation?
Finally, what should we do with the Scripture ( Mark 9:44,46) where Jesus warns that the wicked's worm (flesh) never dies (or, consumes away) in hell's fire? And Revelation 20:11-15.
The Bible teaches us two resurrections: one for the just, and one for the unjust. John 5:28-29. The righteous are resurrected at the second coming of Christ, and those who are alive and remain at His coming are given new bodies at that time. 1 Thess 4:13-17; 1 Cor 15:51-53. After the thousand years, the unjust are resurrected, and at that time they face their judgment, which is total annihilation (and not without suffering). Revelation 20:4.
When Christ speaks of the worm that dies not, he is quoting from a passage in Isiaiah: Isaiah 66:24. This verse speaks of worms eating on the corpses of dead men. It is the worm that does not die, but the people are well dead, for they are merely corpses. There is no reason we should interpret worm here to mean "immortal soul," for there is no such thing. The soul that sins shall die: Ezekiel 18:4
The word Jesus uses in Mark 9:44,46 is Gehenna, which was a place of refuse. They kept the piles of garbage there burning so that it would be consumed away. This is the illustration Jesus employed for the fires of hell: fires which burn up all the garbage and get rid of it.
As for whether cessation from existence or eternal conscious torment are more terrifying to the wicked man... How many atheists have been made out of the doctrine of eternal conscious torment, which is not true? They reject God because they think He is a monster, when in reality He is not. How are we supposed to love God with all of our heart if He is more sadistic than the worst madman we can imagine? That's precisely why the devil loves this doctrine.
Revelation 20:11-15 describes the wicked, as well as death and hell, being cast into the lake of fire. The lake of fire here is symbolic of total destruction. Death is being abolished, as well as the grave, as well as all the wicked and all sin.
in Christ Jesus I.E. sons and daughters of God Cleansed by the blood of Our brother. The next resurrection will
be in Revelation of the just under the law judged by works and the then the adversary and the unbelievers throughout
History get the eternal Hot Foot or Lake of Fire. That's what I read eventually all that ever lived will stand in front
of God either to be rewarded of condemned in the telos or the very end.
The point that is of the essence here is: if there is no eternal condemnation & suffering for Christ-rejecting sinners, then what is the judgement for that rejection? You suggest that the grave now & then after the resurrection & judgement, death again (& annihilation) is the punishment.
You also state that atheists will remain more so because of the teaching of this eternal suffering doctrine. This could be true, but I also see that atheists will remain in their condition because there is no further accountability upon them for their rejection of God.
So the question: if both the child of God & the unrighteous have to face death & the grave, where is the punishment of sinners that we read of in the Word? That the unrighteous are resurrected one day & then annihilated again doesn't seem to be any different judgement than what we all will face in death. And then the matter about the part of us which is indestructible (the soul & spirit); what happens here?
No adequate answer can be given to such questions unless we understand God's Judgement on sinners is far more than just an annihilation but an eternal suffering while those made righteous through Christ enjoy eternal life with Him. We may not always preach a hell-fire Gospel, but that has always been the impetus that drove the apostles to preach & to lay down their lives for the Gospel. If only death was the terminus for the sinner, there would be no compelling need to preach the Gospel - just a "come to Jesus, believe, get saved & have eternal life" Gospel. We have to get saved so that God's Judgement for our sin doesn't fall upon us. At least that's why I was saved: by fleeing the judgement in an eternal hell & running into the Arms of a Loving & Merciful Saviour.
Amen, and well stated.
Deuteronomy 5:29
"O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!"
God Bless.
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