Bible Discussion Thread

hi Dan GBU my man.....But Dan i don't think you understand the Cross was a new covenant in his blood. John knew this thats y he said behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world....But water baptism was a not a blood covenant....Thats y the lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism as if his blood did not suffice for sin...When Jesus said it was finished it was finished forever, God Almighty was offering up his only son the greatest event to ever grace this planet....The blood of God, And here comes Peter commanding water baptism for the sins of the world, A slap in the face of God and the lamb of God, Peter wanted to help God with this new blood covenant thinking that water baptism cd help with this Atonement sacrifice the cross'.A kin to Uzzah wanting to help God when the oxen stumbled but God was very angry and slew Uzzah on the spot .God was very angry with Peter telling him 3 times what i have made clean do not call common or unclean....All the unclean animals in that sheet was the CHURCH that was made clean by the Blood OF THE LAMB, Gods new blood covenant, Not water baptism and absolutely nothin can be added to it PERIOD.....UNLESS WE DEFILE IT....We cannot help God simply b/c he needs no help, It was a slap in the face of God to add anything to Calvary. I know that some were still water baptising but it was simply b/c the Church was still young . But in time it was just like Bro Paul saying water baptism wd make the cross his blood on no effect....Paul feared to defile the blood making it of no effect....I thank God that i baptised none of you....Remember Uzzah

Yes, Bro Dan. We are saved by Jesus. We are given grace that produces faith in us to believe in Jesus and the truth of all of what He did to redeem us. None of us on this forum say otherwise. Yet, once we come into this salvation, we also have grace that empowers us to live for God according to the holy way He proscribes. ( Titus 2:11-12)

When you and I speak of water baptism, we are not substituting this rite for anything Jesus has done for out salvation. But, many who reject it continue to accuse us of doing so. But, here, again I state it so no one will misconstrue what my viewpoint. When we speak of water baptism, you and I know that this was the apostolic practice in all of the churches in the first century and continued to be the practice for new believers throughout the centuries up to this day. Those who say this is not so are at odds with the historical witness of the church written about again and again throughout the church age. Those who say that the word baptism means something different in the original Greek are not referring to the most common definition used during those centuries. They are using a definition that suits their viewpoint. I do not believe them on this.

The handful of us who have posted on this site to support water baptism are appealing to readers to consider that if one testifies to be "in Christ" and wishes to live His way, then certainly one should be willing to do what He asks of us and comply with what He demonstrated for us in His own baptism and command to the apostles to baptize believers in the way He has done, which was water baptism. I am sure that all of the apostles, disciples, and Paul, wo were called to spread the gospel knew exactly what Jesus meant when He said to baptize new believers. It was water baptism, just as they all were water baptized. I doubt any of them did anything else in lieu of water baptism. They knew and acknowledged that ALL authority was given to Jesus, so none of them could change is command

Alex

Water baptism as John, Jesus , the apostles, and disciples did throughout the apostolic times was never a part of the OT law.

Brother Alex,

Please lets keep the subject on the requirement to be baptized. We can move on later to discuss the "new covenant" in a different post.

Jesus was baptized, the apostles were baptized, and Jesus instructs the apostles to baptize everyone else - everyone else includes us. If you disagree, please present the scripture that says that we don't need to be baptized, and I will review.

Some people try to say that Paul changed the requirement to be baptized in water. But, Paul did baptize with water in his early ministry. Also, Paul himself was water baptized by Ananias. Please see scripture below:

Acts 9:17-18

"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost." And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

So, if Jesus, the original 12 apostles, and Paul did not change the requirement for water baptism - then it is still required today.

God Bless.

Bro. Dan Jesus said 3 times jOHN Baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G. and fire...When Jesus said behold i send the Promise of my Father upon you thats H.G. baptism ,The gift of God .Johns water baptism was old covenant...The law and the Prophets were till John ..Dan ya think that God wd send his only son to shed his blood at calvary .and advocate the old water covenant....Dan All the water in the world cd not wash away mans sins...It had to be a blood covenant....Even John who gave us water baptism was preaching Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world....Water baptism was fine till the Cross...But after the CROSS its a New COVENANT .Not according to the Covenant i made with their Fathers..I will put my Words in their hearts and minds and i will remember their sins and inniquities no more...The sower and his seeds are the new covenant a birthing covenant via the seeds of our Lord...As our Lord was the living WORD made flesh and Blood.

Bro Dan it would be a slap in the face of God to ADD ANY THING TO CALVARY....3 TIMES In Acts 10 & 11 God Almighty was telling Peter WHAT I HAVE MADE CLEAN...Do not call common or unclean...God was baptising folks with the H.G. The new covenant. The ultimate baptism. But Peter was Commanding water baptism old Covenant, A slap in the face of God and the lamb of God...Dan once ya understand the ENORMITY of the CROSS, The blood of the lamb, you will no more mention water baptism for the remission of sins...Remember Jesus said that some wd not be able to drink the NEW WINE ( THE NEW COVENANT )..They wd say the old wine is better ( water baptism ) The new wine is H.G. BAPTISM....The Gift of God....But water baptism is not the gift of God. Remember in ACTS 18 : 26 One of Johns disciples was still water baptising.Scripture said thats all he knew was Johns water baptism...But Aquilla and Prisilla had to take him unto them selves aad expound unto him a more perfect way....Which was the new covenant

Alex,

Yes, I agree with you John baptized with water. But, Jesus continued this baptism, he added to it - and commanded us to be baptized with water and he promised to add the Holy Spirt. So it's with water and Spirit! This is totally in line with his words in John 3:5

Acts 2:38

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." This is how we receive the Holy Spirit!

So then at this point our sins are forgiven.

Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

It is impossible to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ without teaching the absolute necessity of baptism. Here is Apostle Paul:

Romans 6:3-4

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

1 Peter 3:21

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

We can't ignore all of this scripture:

Acts 2:37

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Anyone who responds to the question in Acts 2:37 with an answer that contradicts Acts 2:38 is not in line with the gospel of Jesus Christ!

All of this scripture above was written after Jesus Christs resurrection. It was Jesus/God's command for us! GB you Alex.

Brother Dan, please don't be offended by my inability to comprehend why Jesus would say (after his resurrection) in Matthew 2819 to be baptized in the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit? And why when people bring up scripture on baptism do they leave that one out if they are trying to focus on acts 238?

Hi Sister Donna,

You bring up a very real issue that has been discussed from time to time, over the years. Are we to be baptized per Matthew 28:19 where Jesus directs us to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, or Acts 2:38 where Apostle Peter states we should be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

So, Jesus gave a clear directive for the disciples to baptize "them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them all that I have commanded you". While some scriptures refer to baptism in Jesus' name like Acts 2:38 without specifically mentioning the Father and the Holy Spirit, none of these contradicts Jesus' instruction to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Many will conclude, including myself, that statements about baptizing in the name of Jesus were simply an abbreviated reference to the same practice. After all, Jesus encompasses, God, and the Holy Spirit. So whether we receive baptism in the name of Jesus or in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit - we accomplishing the command from Jesus to believe, repent, and be baptized - in order to be born again, and receive God's Holy Spirit.

I hope this provides you with some clarification.

Have a wonderful day, and God Bless You!

Bro. Dan you do not realize what you are saying....If water cd have washed away our sins then our lord shed his blood in vain and the CROSS was just foolishness...Do you not see this...All the water in the whole world cd not atone for the sins of the world... Luke 16 : 16 Jesus said the law and the Prophets were UNTIL JOHN .since that time the KiNGDOM OF God is Preached and all men press into it.....The Kingdom of God can only come via his WORDS which is baptism of the H.G...The kingdom of God is not in meat or drink but in joy and peace in THE H.G....which was the new covenant in his blood NOT WATER ....Unless ya drink my Blood and eat my Flesh you have no life in you....Its his WORDS that contain the seeds of the KiNGDOM....Sure there were still few water baptising....They didn't realize the enormity of his blood that new Covenant, Thats y the Lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism....After he just shed his blood for this new covenant and was baptising folks with the H.G. the ULTIMATE BAPTISM ....What i have made Clean ( by his own Blood the Lamb of God ) Absolutely nothin can be added to it and thats what Peter was trying to do add water baptism to God Almighty New Blood covenant...smh....

Remember he told that woman at the well whosoever drinks of this water shall thirst again...Thats Water baptism...The Old covenant. Jacobs well But the water that i shall give him shall be a well of water springing up unto everlasting life which is the Gift of God, H.G. BAPTISM .That New COVENANT in his Blood ...The KiNGDOM...Our thirst for Salvation cannot be quenched with h20 water baptism, It can only be quenched by what he did at Calvary that living water that springs up unto everlasting life....All the water in this whole world cannot ATONE FOR THE SIN OF THE WORLD.....If water cd Atone for the sins of the world then our lord shed his blood in vain and the cross was just foolishness....Dan GBU..hope this wakes you ppl up that don't realize its his Blood.

Good Morning Brother Alex,

It's another wonderful sunny day here, watching and listening to all of the song birds, while contemplating how wonderful God's love is for us! God came down to this earth and became human in the form of Jesus, he suffered and died for our sins. While on earth, Jesus instructed us, and showed us how we are to live, and how much we are to love others. Not only should we love those who love us and agree with us, we are to love everyone, including our enemies,and those that we don't agree with. I'm on board with this totally!

Alex you stated: "Dan you do not realize what you are saying....If water cd have washed away our sins then our lord shed his blood in vain and the CROSS was just foolishness...Do you not see this...All the water in the whole world cd not atone for the sins of the world"

Alex, it is not what I'm saying - it is what Jesus, and all of the Apostles are saying. We are required to repent, and be baptized in water in order to receive the Holy Spirt. I'm not saying this, it is coming directly from much bible scripture - that I submitted to you, and you continue to minimize and or ignore.

I agree with you, that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, this is true, but it does NOT remove the need for us to be baptized. If this were true we would have to just ignore so much scripture - we can't ignore this scripture regarding baptism, we would then be ignoring what Jesus commanded us to do if we truly want to receive His Holy Spirit.

Please remember what Jesus tells us about his words:

Matthew 24:35

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

If I was to agree with you, that Baptism in water is no longer required, then I would have to ignore tons of scripture regarding baptism, and even worse I would have to ignore the above scripture of Jesus telling us that "his words do not ever pass away." Alex, are you reading the bible and accepting "all of the scripture?

Hi Bro. Dan ....Dan Jesus was not telling Nic. to be water baptised....Jesus was telling Nic. he had to be born from above which is the New Covenant....As we have borne the image of the EARTHLY we must also bear the image of the Heavenly which is not water baptism but that heavenly covenant the new covenant A heavenly covenant . H.G. BAPTISM....We are not born from above till we birth that heavenly man in our hearts which is H.G. BAPTISM.....Christ in you that new covenant...H.G. baptism....The result of his blood @ calvary...you are twisting the scripture to look like Water baptism is the same as the new covenant which was a blood covenant....not a water covenant...When ya mix the 2 covenants you are in essence saying that the blood was insufficient....we need water baptism to fix it...Who can forbid water etc...Thats what Peter was preaching he was commanding water baptism....in essence saying the Blood of the lamb was insufficient....H.G. BAPTISM WAS A HEAVENLY COVENANT...Being born from above etc But water baptism was an earthly Covenant Washing of the flesh etc We cannot mix them...Thats what Peter was trying to do add water baptism to the new covenant a blood covenant.....

Thats y the lord was so upset with Peter....Being born from above is not about water baptism but about what Jesus did at Calvary...His blood etc..There is a Child involved in this NEW Covenant a heavenly Child which is the H.G. The Child of Promise....We are gonna birth a new innerman via this new covenant..Thats y Jesus refers to it as baptism of Promise...The original Promise was multiplication of Christ via his seed etc....She brought forth aman Child that is gonna rule all nations....This is the New Covenant a birthing covenant impling multiplication via his seed the word...When a seed dies it multiplies..

smite the sheppard and the sheep will be scattered, Then i will turn my hand to the lil ones....see multiplication of his seed etc...God Almighty made this New Covenant...th Promise

Bro Dan

You are so right on explaining what is meant by "baptizing with water and the Spirit"

So many here just seem to resist the idea of water baptism. If some think it is an action added to the work of Christ, then we should not lay hands on someone or pray for them to be "baptized in the Holy Spirit" because it involves action on the human part. We cannot "see" what God does to a new believer when they are water baptized, but, by faith, one believes that God is at work in this rite because He instituted it, just like He instituted the Lord's Supper.

Partaking of the Supper is an action, but like baptism by water or laying on of hands, it isn't adding to the finished work of God in Christ. It is just following in the way Jesus instructed. We pray, it is an action. I would ask those who balk at water baptism because it is a "work" added to that of Christ, "is praying a work that adds to the work of Christ , since God knows what we need before we ask?

Sister GiGi,

Thank you for your response, and encouraging words!

I also concur with you that if we are truly following the Gospel of Jesus Christ we are "performing many actions" that are compelled by Jesus and explicitly required by Him. These actions produce good work/good fruit - and we do it in a humble manner as the Holy Spirit moves us to glorify God! These actions are not by us - but by Him!

God Bless You!

Bro Alex,

Thanks for your reply. What a wonderful sunny day here!

I'm going to continue to love you with this scripture! We may not agree on our interpretation of scripture, but it's ok, many of us here on this site continue to have our differences of opinion. Only God can be our judge! I have to respect you for the Fire you have in stating and sharing your interpretation of scripture.

Since you commented on Peter I will share this scripture with you for your consideration.

Regarding the Apostle Peter, Jesus held him in high esteem so much so that he used Peter to build his church!

Matthew 16:18-20

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Peter is God's Man! We need to listen when Peter talks:

Acts 2:38

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Peter tells us what we must do - to receive the Holy Ghost/Spirit. Very Powerful! Do you believe that the Apostle Peter is God's Man?

Alex, feel free to comment on this scripture, or list any other scripture that you want to discuss, or some other scripture that validates your beliefs.

God Bless.

Hiya Dan GBU.....Yes Peter was a great man of God ,But God is no respector of persons...Its the H.G. that is the Man of Promise...The Israel of God . The gift of God....We are all the same we must All be bornagain of an incorruptible seed as Peter tells us...

Our old man is in rank with satan which is our old adamic nature....1 st Peter 1 : 23 Being born again of an incorruptible seed which are the words of the new covenant, A much a greater covenant then John's water baptism...Jesus refers to Peter 1 time as Satan before he was converted....The man of the hour is the H.G. Our King, and kingdom thats is born

within us...He is the result of the CROSS the Blood of the lamb. But he has to be born in us via us hearing the words of our lord .Today if you will hear his voice etc...His words are the good seeds. It was when he breath on them they received the H.G...As his breath was his words which are his seeds producing a birth of Christ in us that Child of Promise Which is the multiplication of Christ in humanity the H.G....As the H.G. was not yet given freely till after the CROSS....Meaning after he was glorified the 1s time after Pentacost the H.G was born in their hearts that Child of Promise, But the seed were sown in the upper room when he said b/c i have spoken these WORDS ( HIS BREATH ) SORROWS HAVE FILLED YOUR HEARTS a spritual Pregnancy....But the Child didn't come till Pentacost some 50 days later....i.e there has to be gestation in the spritual realm for the H.G. to be born in us....I think that is y he is saying

That which is born of the spirit is spirit which is our new innerman the H.G...His breath was his word which is Spirit

Thats y he has to know us...Thats when that good seed is sown in us sinners...That was the result of the CROSS

SMITE THE Sheppard and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the lil ONES....His Children that are gonna be born in us...The babes and the sucklings are his offspring.....Isaiah said he wd see his seed.