Bible Discussion Thread

Satan and all fallen angels are described here as Pharaoh and his multitude, the other shadow and typology name ascribed unto Satan is the Assyrian, these are the two names ascribed unto Satan here in this chapter. His metaphorical name is, the cedar tree of Lebanon, the other fallen angels metaphorical names are cedar trees, fir trees and chestnut trees. Found then in versus 8-9 we have an understanding that goes back to Genesis 2:8-9, regarding when God created the trees from the garden of God, these were the angels. Now we know and are confident that Ezekiel is using metaphors to speak about Satan and the fallen angels, because he states the trees of the garden of God, envied Lucifer. We can affirm that no physical tree has the ability to envy, but angels had that ability when God created them, we can affirm therefore, man is older than the angels, as he was created before them, placed into the garden of God, and then God created all angels in front of Adam. Genesis 2:8-9 Let us also make note, that these fallen angels were cast into hell, or the pit, which is not a common grave, for a physical grave could never hold a spirit like Satan or any fallen angel.

I don't believe that is quite correct. Angels were created before man. I'm Job 38, God is talking to Job about the plans that He has but Job does not know about. In verses 4-7 God says some awesome things that gives us context that angels were made before humans in the beginning of creation. " Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you know so much. Who determined its dimensions and stretched out the surveying line? What supports its foundations, and who laid its cornerstone as the morning stars sang together and all the angels (sons of God) shouted for joy?" NLT if the angels were present to witness the laying of the foundations of the earth, that has to mean they were present before humans.

Hi K; I have read what you wrote, and I must confess, I have very little faith when it comes to transliteration bibles, I prefer the King James or the Septuagint. In the KJB Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? The question from this text is when could the morning stars sing together, knowing that these are the angels, with the sons of God, knowing that these are mankind. Please note Hebrews 1:5 God never calls angels sons of God, first let me say, only a human being can become a son of God, Read Luke 1:38 Adam was a son of God, then compare that statement to John 1:12 only Christians can become sons of God, or compare that to Romans 8:14, only Christians who have matured enough to be led by the Holy Ghost, can become a son of God. Do not allow yourself to be deceived by false teachers or books, like the book of Enoch, which is heresy, stating it rained in the days of Enoch, more than 300 years before it rained in the bible. So I believe Gen. 2:8-9 Angels were created in front of Adam as the metaphorical word, trees. This is explained in Ezekiel 31:8-9

Dear Dr Lee

Another thought, perhaps in Job 38 the sons of God are angels and the morning stars are seraphim and/or cherubim. Or bother type of spiritual being we do not know about

Lucifer is referred to as both the morning star and anointed cherub. Seraph are referred to as bright flames or fiery serpents.

We do not know God has deemed angels sons of God. There is a lot we do not know about the spirit realm and the Scriptures reveal very little to determine a cohesive doctrine.

So, I remember reading this: "the secret things belong to the Lord our God" Deut. 29:29

So, I can live without knowing about things. I concur with Job's words in chapter 42:2-6 when Job answered back to God in humility and repentance. We really know very little about God and His heavenly hosts. We can speculate or interpret Scriptures our own ways, but really we have to wait and see in the resurrection what Hod will reveal to us about these things, and still we will not know ALL about God nor we may not know all about these spiritual hosts either. But we will know all that Hod has deemed good and necessary for us. I'm good with that.

Hi Gigi; I appreciate your response, however; I have understood the retoracle question in Hebrews 1:5 To which of the angels said God at any time, you are my son? This is actually saying God has never called angels sons of God, nor can they become sons of God, as I have previously stated only human beings can become sons of God, it is very clear in Luke 3:38 that Adam was the son of God. Adam was a human being, the genealogy from Adam unto the Lord Jesus, is a lineage of the sons of God, all those listed were sons of God. Now what we do know, is that the apostle Paul stated if a Christian is led by the Holy Ghost, he has matured to become a son of God. I understood your statement about things God has not revealed to us as of yet, this is very true, and we can be content in knowing only what God has revealed, for this reason I can say like Isaiah 28:9-10 a doctrine can only be created when you take line upon line, here a little, precept upon precept, and there a little, usingf this method we can assure ourselves we have arrived at good doctrine. Meaning look for all scriptures that teach sons of God, and see if at any time they refer unto angels, and you will discover what I also discovered, that no scripture refers unto angels as sons of God, only human beings are called sons of God. In conclusion, even Jesus took not upon himself the nature of angels to be called a son of God, but he took upon himself a human body, as the seed of Abraham. Hebrews 2:16

I agree K

The Angels were made before God created the earth, as it says I'm Job

Hi Gigi; I understand you are trying to quote Job 38:7 please read it with me, Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? KJB the morning stars here refer unto angels and the sons of God refer unto human beings. Therefore; this text is speaking about after man and angels were created, not before they were created. God never calls angels sons of God Hebrews 1:5 Knowing you must be a human being to become a son of God, like Adam Luke 3:38 or like Christians John 1:12 I believe the bible is revealing the angels were created after mankind, as in Genesis 2:8-9 as Adam was watching God create the trees from the garden of God, this was done after God created trees already on the third day and after he rested on the seventh day, meaning this word tree is metaphorical and are the angels, as the prophet Ezekiel reveals in 31:8-9

Dear Dr. Lee

I have read your interpretation of Ezekiel's trees being Angels and the trees in the Garden as being Angels. Although I find your interpretations interesting, I do not agree with it and stick with my belief that the Angels were created before humans and that the trees in the Garden were real trees.

I do not tend to read metaphors into Scriptures unless Jesus spoke back to a Scripture and clearly explains that it is a metaphor. In this case, He never did.

We will find out in the resurrection the answers to many questions we have about creation and things that happened in times prior to recorded history. I can wait until then. I do not see this topic as one to dwell on. So, thank you for your contribution. We will agree to disagree on this one, in my view.