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BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 182801

Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • S Spencer - 2 years ago
    Hi Brother Dan

    You stated.

    "As a Christ follower why would you NOT want to ( try )keep holy and follow these commandments?"

    I haven't seen anything written on the site that stated we shouldn't (try).

    By the Spirit of God ww know the commandment is Holy.

    By the same Spirit we know we fall short.

    By the same Spirit we know "by the commandments" we need a savior.

    Christ didn't come to keep being crucified every time we break one because we can't keep them perfectly.

    We have agreed with scripture throughout the bible that we're justified apart from the deeds of the Law.

    Romans 3:26-28.

    Salvation is an inward act performed by the Holyspirit that is confirmed by an outwardly act.

    We do our best to keep the commandments and that also is an inwardly act by the Holyspirit. The flesh is weak.

    You can keep them all the days of your life and have a sinful Heart and you still come up short.

    You can't Love your neighbor as required without a NEW heart. And the sabbath day rest is found in Christ.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother Dan.

    Sorry my response took so long,

    I've been getting off work late all this week.

    Dan there is a difference in obeying Gods commandments by the power of the Holyspirit and Putting yourself under the law.

    Luke 6:46-47. Is a condition AFTER you have received salvation. "Not an requirement! That rock is Christ, Not the Law!

    And the verse you quoted is to Israel. So let's examine that.

    Jeremiah 31:31-33. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

    But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    You noticed verse 32?

    He said NOT according to the covenant that I made with their fathers. Why? "which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them." The Law was given to Israel fathers and they couldn't keep them.

    When they, "Israel as a nation' come to Christ in the Millennium that will.

    Just as his Church today!

    Right now the Lord is calling out his Church and then he will deal with Israel.

    Israel with God taking them by the hand as a husband to them and still coming up short was to drive us to Christ.

    2 Corinthians 3:2-11. sums up this whole discussion.

    Everything we obey "IS" by the Spirit of God. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

    God bless.
  • Free - In Reply - 2 years ago
    It's nice to follow you brothers, in a way it's right everything u al write and refer to. I will try and come up with an input that is about daily life with Jesus Christ.

    First, He never sleeps. Why do we have to? Yes The body of sin Screams for sleep. And then we know, we who have read a bit, that we have some good words that explain us about sleep in Proverbs 19:15 and Proverbs 20:13

    I have to get a little personal here now. For my uncle, it can be said lukewarm. Think it's okay with Christmas and elves. Hymns and songs. But do not give up the self to anyone other than oneself. This is a stage where a person can become proud and stubborn. So how can I see that he can surrender to Jesus. Because we have some words that make it not "my business" to see who gets fair or not. I leave it to the Holy Spirit.

    1 Timothy 1:9

    Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, Here we clearly see who the law is for.

    2 Timothy 3:16

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    So what does that mean to be fair and righteous? Firstly, James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

    1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

    Romans 6:1-4

    Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

    Proverbs 4:18

    Romans 6:1

    We have so many benefits we who are born after Christ! There is nothing to wonder about. He who believes is saved and righteous. He did this once for all. 1 Corint 15:22
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Thank you free!

    Well spoken!

    God bless.
  • SolaScrip - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Jesus Christ obeyed all the 10 Commandments His entire life. John 15:10 If He had not, He would not have been 100% SINLESS (without blemish) and His sacrifice would not have been so powerful to accomplish all that it did.

    We are to walk just as Jesus walked. 1 John 2:6

    When we take His Spirit into us, that is the same event as us receiving a new heart - spoken of in Ezekiel 36:26-27. Look closely at those verses. "I will ... CAUSE you to walk in My statutes, and ye SHALL keep My judgments, and do them."

    Christ observed the 7th Day Sabbath every week of His life and it is the 4th Commandment. We are to do the same.

    Resting in the security of His providence is a good thing to do, but it is not a substitute for the Sabbath Day of rest instituted at Creation Week - because none of the Commandments have ever been repealed. Gen. 2:2-3 God blessed and sanctified only one day ever, and what God blesses cannot be reversed. Num. 23:20

    It is the only day He ever claimed to be HIS Day. Isaiah 58:13 It is the GENUINE Lord's Day that John refers to in Rev. 1:10. There is no other reference anywhere in scripture to that term and the Isaiah verse identifies which day that is.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi SolaScrip.

    Thanks for that. I don't think we are going to agree on this.

    Your quote:

    "When we take His Spirit into us, that is the same event as us receiving a new heart - spoken of in Ezekiel 36:26-27. Look closely at those verses. "I will ... CAUSE you to walk in My statutes, and ye SHALL keep My judgments, and do them."

    These verses is for the children of Israel and want be accomplished until the Millennium!

    Here's what you left out.

    Ezekiel 36:22-25. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

    And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

    For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

    Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    Continued verses.

    Ezekiel 36:26-27. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    But if you want to use it for the Church it serves my view well.

    ""AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, AND YE SHALL KEEP MY JUDGMENTS, AND DO THEM.""

    That is a perfect picture of the work of the Holyspirit which we receive once saved.

    Thanks and God bless.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Good Morning, S.Spencer,

    I agree with you here.

    However, I have read on this site words from those that essentially say that if we try to keep the commandments we are putting ourselves under law and not grace, therefore we need to keep all of them perfectly or else we are guilty of all of them. Also, I have read posts that say essentially that obeying the commandments is operating in the flesh and that we are to operate in the Spirit instead. But Paul clearly says that those who operate in the Spirit obey the Spriit of God, which would be obeying the 10 commandments along with other acts that are good. To operate in the flesh is to give into sinful desires and disobey God's will which includes the 10 commandments and other matters of loving God and others.

    So, what Bro Dan and I are saying is that it is spiritually dangerous to give half truths about law and grace to those we do not know as some may be new Christians, weak Christians, or carnal believers caught up in sinful situations by their choice.

    Just wanted to clarify. Thanks for your thoughts today.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Gigi.

    I probably missed those comments,

    sometimes I read a partially read a post like that and move on to another.

    Thanks and God bless.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 2 years ago
    S.Spencer

    I understand. I have lots of time now to read posts all the way through. Not all people have such time. No problem.

    But I have read what I mentioned multiple times over the past few months. I saddens me to read these words because, in zealouness to defend salvation by faith without works, these posters do not explain the purpose of the law for believers and the blessings of obeying God in His commands and the lead of the Spirit. This gives readers the impression that the law is done away with now, when Jesus said that it will never go away. It is just that believers have a different relationship with the law than non-believers.

    We are now free to obey God by His Spirit instead of under the yoke of the law that only brings a curse and condemnation for not obeying it completely. We are no longer a slave to this yoke, but are freed from the slavery that the law brings upon all men due to their inability to fulfill all of it. There is a lot more to be said on this topic. But for, Me I prefer to speak in a balanced way about the law and grace.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Yes Gigi

    I hear you but Dan post was referring to something recent and direct!

    He was answering a thread not posting a comment.

    His post was directed at me.

    Dan has been stating long before you come on the site that you MUST keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved.

    He makes no apologies about his position.

    This is another gospel and you amen to that!?
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Brother Spencer,

    Always nice to hear from you.

    You stated: Christ didn't come to keep being crucified every time we break one because we can't keep them perfectly.

    I agree, Christ died once for us. Because of this, we now have the ability to receive forgiveness for sins from God thru the sacrifice of his Son Jesus. Herein lies the problem; Many people today mistakenly think that WE have no other responsibility for our salvation! They say Jesus did it all - and now we can live our worldly lives and still receive salvation. But all of the scripture tells us otherwise. Even Paul states that we must strive to work out our salvation. Philippians 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

    Jesus tells us throughout the bible we must try to keep his commandments, and strive to be sin free. Jesus heals the invalid and then tells him - to sin no more! John 5:14 "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

    In summary, we must follow Jesus/God's commands (10 Commandments) and work out our own salvation - if we expect to receive his favorable judgement.

    God Bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi again Brother Dan.

    Philippians 2:12. This verse speaks of ongoing obedience for those already saved. It's crucial to note that Paul is not telling them to work for their salvation. This statement implies a need to live out-to practice, demonstrate, and exhibit-the salvation which believers have in Christ.

    The Greek word for "work out" is katergazomai and it can mean "to perform, it is a present tense command. so if you take that and verse 13, You are to "present that which is being worked in you."

    Here's how it reads, It's one sentence. And verse 13 is very important!

    "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    Vs 13)- FOR IT IS GOD WHICH WORKETH IN YOU BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE."

    You have to have salvation IN you to work it OUT you.

    Anytime we add anything to the finish work on the cross we fall from Grace!

    Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    Galatians 5:4.

    You and I agree on some things but where we are divided is one word.

    "Requirement" I hold the view that the keeping of the law is not required for salvation. It's the Spirit in us that urges us to put forward the effort of obedience.

    With the mindset that one would have to keep the law for salvation contradicts the sabbath rest they're trying to keep when we examine what that rest is.

    God bless.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother Spencer,

    If indeed, we have salvation - we have been "Born Again". God promised us that "His New Covenant" will put His laws into our hearts and minds. (These laws are God's Commandments) nothing new! If we are saved we will have His Holy Spirit and we will be embracing and following God's wishes and Commands, and naturally his 10 Commandments.

    You said you hold the view that the keeping of the law is not required for salvation. I'm saying we will be following the law closely, and trying our absolute best to adhere to God's Law's if we are in fact truly Born Again and saved. If not, we are probably not saved!

    Jesus tells us here what he expects from us:

    Luke 6:46-47

    "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

    Jesus is telling us to come to him, hear his sayings, and DO his sayings. These are His Requirements!

    If we are not "doing His Requirements" we are not saved, and we are only fooling ourselves and others.

    John 14:15

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

    God Bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother Dan.

    Sorry my response took so long,

    I've been getting off work late all this week.

    Dan there is a difference in obeying Gods commandments by the power of the Holyspirit and Putting yourself under the law.

    Luke 6:46-47. Is a condition AFTER you have received salvation. "Not an requirement! That rock is Christ, Not the Law!

    And the verse you quoted is to Israel. So let's examine that.

    Jeremiah 31:31-33. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

    But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    You noticed verse 32?

    He said NOT according to the covenant that I made with their fathers. Why? "which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them." The Law was given to Israel fathers and they couldn't keep them.

    When they, "Israel as a nation' come to Christ in the Millennium that will.

    Just as his Church today!

    Right now the Lord is calling out his Church and then he will deal with Israel.

    Israel with God taking them by the hand as a husband to them and still coming up short was to drive us to Christ.

    2 Corinthians 3:2-11. sums up this whole discussion.

    Everything we obey IS by the Spirit of God. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

    God bless.

    John 10:1.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Thanks for the reply Brother Dan.

    I will continue our discussion this evening when I get off work.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    It's always a pleasure sharing with you also Brother Dan. Thanks for your reply. Give me a couple hours and I will continue, I am about to get behind the wheel.

    God bless.



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