Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Ben on 1 Chronicles 15 - 2 years ago
    Why would someone be killed just because he helped steady the ark of covenant? I think that makes god unpleasant and unforgiving.
  • GiGi - In Reply on 1 Chronicles 15 - 2 years ago
    Hello Ben, The brethren here have given you good replies. I just want to add that David did not initially order that the Ark be according to the Law (which would be by two poles carried on the shoulders of the sons of Kohath or the Levites). Uzzah's dead really got David's attention. He may have realized that he had not ordered the Ark to be carried properly and thus had culpability in Uzzah's death. He may have thought, "If not that I was God's anointed king, I may have been struck with death also."

    So, the stopped and put and housed the Ark in the home of one who happened to be a Kohath (unbeknownst to David).

    So, after some time, they had gathered enough sons of Kohath to properly carry the Ark to Jerusalem. David was so very happy to have the Ark finally returned to the Temple in Jerusalem he led the procession with uninhibited dancing and shouts of praise, singing, and sheer abandon to worship to God. He was in obedience to God in the way the ark was being carried, reveling in its return to its proper place in the Holy of Holies where the glory of the Lord was revealed on the mercy seat, and had been rightly educated by the death of Uzzah. He accepted this correction personally and deeply.
  • T. Levis - In Reply on 1 Chronicles 15 - 2 years ago
    I would like to add a wise answer given by a young man. It was something like this & (I've added additional rationale): Being this was the return of The Ark of The Covenant, that was taken because of disregard to GOD's Laws, 1Samuel 2:12-17, contradictory to the Laws given in Exodus, Leviticus & Deuteronomy, & even in Joshua, Joshua 3:3, 1Samuel 2:27-36, 1Samuel 3:1,2,3,11,12,13, 1Samuel 4,

    that 'maybe it was because HE had to make a strong early example because people have a tendency to diminish respect over time. If there was no consequence in the returning & beginning a new ere, then how much would have been disregarded after?'

    It appears to be consistent with the beginning New Testament Church; Acts 5:1-11,

    Whether we like it or not, David was significantly upset & considerably moved by it. 2Samuel 6:8,9, but yet also took a more respectful, Holier approach, with much reverance 1Chronicles 15:2, 1Chronicles 15:1-25, even then as David gives total honor to GOD & in his "first Psalm" says "be mindful always of HIS covenant, the Word which HE commanded to a thousand generations" 1Chronicles 16, then that respectful approach continued with David's son King Solomon; 2Chronicles 5,

    Hopefully this is also helpful & welcomed to discussion.
  • The Ark of the Covenant - In Reply on 1 Chronicles 15 - 2 years ago
    ( EXODUS 25:13-14). Later it is specified that of the Levites, it would be the job of the sons of Kohath to bear the ark and that no one was to touch the ark, not even the sons of Kohath, the result of doing so was to die (Num.4:15).

    Yet, some might determine that would only apply to initially loading it upon some beast of burden or such. Yet, this is made clear when beasts of burden were donated to the priests, "But unto the sons of Kohath he gave none: because the service of the sanctuary belonging unto them was that they should bear upon their shoulders" ( Num. 7:9), the items making up the tabernacle. Now fast forward some four hundred years and the ark of the covenant has been captured by the Philistines and then returned to Israel, but not back to where the tabernacle was. David saw fit to have it brought back. It is recorded that, "they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart" ( II Sam. 6:3). At one point, "Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah: and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God" ( II Sam. 6:4). So, now what can we learn about how to transport an ark, or really to carry out any command of God?
  • Richard - In Reply on 1 Chronicles 15 - 2 years ago
    Here we go again. LOL. In the garden, God allowed us to have dominion over all of creation. Thus in today's world, we don't think about that. We set out traps for mice because of several reasons. Fear, afraid of disease, destructions of these little fellows, so forth and so on. They are a creation from God also and God viewed all of his creation "good." Now we are on top of the totem pole and if we don't like something, we get rid of it. How many ants do you step on each time you go out into the yard and never give it any thought whatsoever. Oh, they are just ants. Oh, they are just pesty little mice. Why this decision? If we are so proud that we have control over everything, what make anyone think that God as creator does have any decision as to what he wishes to happen. Also remember that this body is just a tabenacle for a short time. Our life is temporary in a journey. We must look at the future rather than the here and now. However, while we are here, we must do the work of the Father. I don't think anyone should worry about their opinion of how God works in our lives. To us this mortal being is to precious in the here and now rather that in the presense of God. Another thing to remember is that while they were moving the ark it was not being moved as directed by God. It was to be carried with poles and not transport by the means of a cart.
  • Adam - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Ben,

    Regarding 1 Chronicles 13:9-12, the question of why seems fair, but your second sentence sounds like you already drew a conclusion about God. That part seems unfair and assuming and I noticed you wrote God's name in lower case.

    So, by the limited information you read, maybe you perceived a certain character about God, but what if your assumptions are wrong? God knew Uzza's heart and knew if he was intentionally disobeying or not, whether he was disrespecting God's rules, or whether he was distrusting God. This reminds me of when Moses disobeyed and struck the rock with his staff- doing things his own way, rather than God's way, whether through lack of faith, stubbornness, a rebelious nature, or other motive. So, while this passage didn't go into detail about his heart and motives, I think it's logical that the man intentionally disobeyed and disrespected God.

    Have you ever been wronged and someone falsely accused you and drew the wrong conclusion, because they didn't have the full story? Maybe you didn't like being accused or wrongly judged? What if your assumption about God in this context is the same thing? This event is only mentioned in 2 sentences (v8 and v9) and there was likely more to it, such as Uzza's motives.

    So the question is how does that make God the 'bad guy' when someone violates God's rules? Why would your compassion fall upon the lawbreaker instead of the lawgiver? Also, we don't have any other information about Uzza's afterlife. I believe God is a fair judge and knows our heart. And I think verses that say to fear God is real and just as stated in this story I think its risky to disrespect and assume false motives upon anyone, especially about God.



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