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Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 184254
Because of the penalty of sin. Not His rather ours. To understand go back to the Garden. The first sin was not the eating of the forbidden fruit. That was the manifestation of the first sin which was that Adam and eve believed that God was a liar. The lie He was accused of was that they " shall not surely die". They did and were sentenced to death. Why were they kicked out of the garden? Not because of sin. That penalty is death. The second death which is To be un existed. Can you sneak up on God and take something from Him that He said you cannot have? Of course not. Gen 3:22 states that they were removed from the Garden of Eden BEFORE they eat of the tree of life and live Forever. BEFORE. And from the pulpits today were are taught that when we depart this existence we shall go to Heaven and live forever, or to he'll and live forever, BUT YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE. Jesus took on the sins of the entire world. He died the second death to pay the penalty in our stead. He took to the grave sin and death. When He raised from the DEAD He left behind sin and death and now brings us out of the grave of non existence. Now is mankind offered the gift of eternal life.
Death keeps humanity from total destruction of anything good that God has created in us as a whole. think of how corrupt do not mankind had become before the flood in just 10 generations. Only Noah was walking with God in faith. Yet Adam had lived to about year few hundreds years or so before Noah was born along with Seth living even closer to Adam's time. (if the chronologies/geneologies do not skip generations.) It seems that mankind even welcomed relationships with fallen angels!
( Genesis 6 as some interpret it). Satan had a heyday in this pre-flood time. His work in mankind brough about the a humanity that acted more like Him than creatures made in God's image.
So, in this sense, death was a merciful judgment for our sin because God, in His foreknowledge knew this would happen to humanity if they lived forever like Satan and his fallen angels, and in knowing all things, the plan of the Godhead was to redeem humanity from sins and death to a better existence than that of the original humans created at the beginning (Adam and Eve)
God determined that man, being mortal would receive a salvation from sin that Satan and his fallen angels would never receive. So, in this, His judgment of Satan is more severe than that of death for us. We have the hope of the resurrection to eternal life where there will be no sin. This is the final victory over Satan and sin, which originated with him. God triumphs in and through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ over sin and death, but most markedly, over Satan, despoiling him of power and devices upon all who believe in Jesus.
When we think that Satan was indeed the top angels among all the ones created by God, in the end he will have the lowest place possible of all God's creatures. Thus, God's justice is completed.
I hope you are helped by these replies. But I as wondering if you were actually asking why, of all that God could determine, was it determined that humans should die if we sin (because the fallen angels did not die); and also, then, why was it decided that the way for man to be saved was for God the Son to be incarnated into human flesh and die for our sins.
That is a much deeper question that the Scriptures do not define very thoroughly. I believe that the answer remains in the councils of the Godhead when the plan for creation and salvation was chosen before anything had been made, even before the angels were created. So, any explanation by man is opinion, but we can base our opinion on what we know about God's character revealed in Scripture and nature.
For me, I think that God decided that death would be the result of sin because He is Life and Holiness itself. Therefore, sin not only is disobedience and rebellion towards Him, but it also makes us corrupt and unholy, and unworthy of being in relationship with God or receiving eternal life in heaven with Him, (which is what He purposed for us to receive). Death does not allow us to have any of these wonderful benefits. It permanently separates us from God and His goodness (which is always benevolent to His living creatures). In death, we cannot benefit from the beauty and majesty of creation or the joy of relationships with one another or any other good that God has bestowed on all of creation. Death demonstrates to man that sin is very serious and should not be taken lightly by us. Death reminds us that our sinfulness separates us from God. Death makes us desire salvation.
I also think that God, in His wisdom, decided that the penalty for sin is death because He also knew ahead of time that Satan and his fallen angels (who do not die) would become totally corrupt and evil and irredeemable. He knew that if man did not die, we would be come just like Satan. Death spares us from being like him.
Romans 6:23 states that the wages of sin is death. This is exactly what God told Adam and Eve would happen if they disobeyed His command concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
2Cor. 5:21 says that He (the Father) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we may become the righteousness of God in Him (Jesus). Jesus took the totality of the sins of all humanity upon Himself on the cross to pay the full penalty of sin that we deserved for us. In His suffering and death the Father spent His wrath upon Jesus for our sins, effecting forgiveness for us. Also, He exchanged our sins for his righteousness through His death for us.
Jesus said to the disciples in the Last Supper Discourse that greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. (15:13) Here the Lord is telling of His death as the greatest act of love He can do for them (and us who believe). So, His death is His sacrificial love poured out for our benefit not His. the removal of our sin from us by His death reconciles us to God in such a way that we become friends of God instead of enemies; allows God to look upon us instead of away from us because He cannot look upon sin. We have the righteousness of God in us instead of our sinfulness. Hell is just this, God tuning away from those who remain His enemies due to their unbelief. This is because their unbelief prevents them from accessing the benefits of Christ's atoning death. They will forever be without God, without His mercy, without His grace, without His salvation.
Jesus' death breaks the power of sin in our lives and rescues us from hell and the devil's claim upon us. But even more, His death brings to us a future with God in heaven forever. Salvation is not just for this life, but for the life we will receive at the resurrection of our bodies. This was won for us through the resurrection of Jesus. Jesus said that He is the Resurrection and the Life. Jn. 11:25-26.
I believe others have very well covered the wages of sin is death and Christ as the sacrificial Lamb.
Romans 6:23.
Hebrews 9:22.
1 Peter 1:18-20...ect.
I would like to give attention to the importance of the resurrection.
If you noticed in 1 Peter 1:18-20. it says Christ crucifixion was ordained before the foundation of the world.
If we consider that verse with
1 Corinthians 15:45-50. and particular on 1 Corinthians 15:45. The life giving spirit now dwells in us and could only come by us being baptized in Christ death, "Cruxifying the old man which we had in Adam.
And we are also baptized in his resurrection.
We could have never gotten that by Adam.
And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Jn. 12:23-26.
I've seen it quoted like this:
By rising from the dead, Jesus Christ demonstrated that He had cleansed the guilt of our past and is able to help us in our present lives. His resurrection assures us that our future is safe and secure. Without Christ's resurrection we would have no salvation from sin, and no hope for our own future resurrection.
The empty tomb is proof of Christ's deity. End quote.
(Gentiles), which are not of THIS fold (the Jewish believers): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be ONE fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man take it (His Life) from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Jesus had to die because GOD had always required a blood sacrifice as payment for sin. Remember in the garden of Eden when dam and Eve sinned God Killed a lamb or shed innocent blood to make a covering for their bodies, thus providing a covering for sin. That's where it started and if you remember Cain and Able, Cain offered a sacrifice not of blood and GOD rejected it.Now if you're asking why all that when GOD can do anything he could have done it anyway he wanted because he is GOD? Well I' not sure anybody could answer that honestly. There are a lot of people that try to explain GOD. That's like trying to bring GOD down to our level. The word of GOD says HIS way's are much higher than our's. We will never understand all about GOD here on earth that's why we accept GOD's word by faith.
Hiya Forum ppl of God ...Lemme give ya my slant on y Jesus had to die...Its was b/c God Almighty wanted to make a new covenant with humanity. A blood Covenant...But it was woven in the great Promise at the Cross .. Zech 13 : 7 ...Smite the Sheperd and the sheep will be scattered....Then i will turn my hand to the little Ones...That was the great Promise of multiplication...His lil ones...The babes and the sucklings...our new heart and new spirit...Jesus told the Greeks unless a Seed dies it abides alone but if it dies it will bring forth much Fruit...The lil ones...thats y the new birth is so important...Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...Not only did he die but by his blood, but a new covenant was enforced, the multiplication of his seed , Zech 12 : 10...They shall look on me whom they have pierced at the Cross...And mourn for him as an only Son....and be in bitterness as one who is in bitterness for his 1st born..our new innerman is our 1st born which is the Child of Promise the H.G....His multiplication in the spritual realm...Thats y he always refers to himself as the SON OF MAN...Mankind, humanity is gona have a Baby Christ which is the H.G. our 1st born our only son that Child of Promise the H.G..We have been in mourning for 2k yrs for our 1st born,our only son in the spirit which is the H.G. That Son of Promise is the H.G...Thats y Jesus refers to the H.G. AS THE Promise ...The H.G. is the result of his seed his words...Even his breath which is his Words...Because of his death we are gonna birth a 1st born an only son..They shall be in bitterness as one who is in bitterness for his 1st born, his only son...The result of his DEATH is gona be a Baby Christ ,our 1st born our only son...Thats y the Woman in Rev 12 : 5 is giving birth, the Child is her 1st born Her only Son...A kingdom Child...Truly i say unto you unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...the Promise was multiplication.
Hi dear. As concise as possible. To get the whole picture, you can read the Hebrews, in new testament.
Because the whole Word must be fulfilled, Jesus came for us all died on the cross, when He did that He fulfilled the law.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Hebrew 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
When God Speak He who created the whole world and everything around us.
Genesis 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of
He created from what He sees from His thought's. He diddent only created thats who is like nice cats and dogs, but everything that we sees He created. And not only that we can see. We have a creation beyond that, more heavens and evan more earth becouse we have a underworld as well.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
When God speak who is Holy it has too be fulfilled. 1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever.
I guess this is part 3
Death keeps humanity from total destruction of anything good that God has created in us as a whole. think of how corrupt do not mankind had become before the flood in just 10 generations. Only Noah was walking with God in faith. Yet Adam had lived to about year few hundreds years or so before Noah was born along with Seth living even closer to Adam's time. (if the chronologies/geneologies do not skip generations.) It seems that mankind even welcomed relationships with fallen angels!
( Genesis 6 as some interpret it). Satan had a heyday in this pre-flood time. His work in mankind brough about the a humanity that acted more like Him than creatures made in God's image.
So, in this sense, death was a merciful judgment for our sin because God, in His foreknowledge knew this would happen to humanity if they lived forever like Satan and his fallen angels, and in knowing all things, the plan of the Godhead was to redeem humanity from sins and death to a better existence than that of the original humans created at the beginning (Adam and Eve)
God determined that man, being mortal would receive a salvation from sin that Satan and his fallen angels would never receive. So, in this, His judgment of Satan is more severe than that of death for us. We have the hope of the resurrection to eternal life where there will be no sin. This is the final victory over Satan and sin, which originated with him. God triumphs in and through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ over sin and death, but most markedly, over Satan, despoiling him of power and devices upon all who believe in Jesus.
When we think that Satan was indeed the top angels among all the ones created by God, in the end he will have the lowest place possible of all God's creatures. Thus, God's justice is completed.
I hope you are helped by these replies. But I as wondering if you were actually asking why, of all that God could determine, was it determined that humans should die if we sin (because the fallen angels did not die); and also, then, why was it decided that the way for man to be saved was for God the Son to be incarnated into human flesh and die for our sins.
That is a much deeper question that the Scriptures do not define very thoroughly. I believe that the answer remains in the councils of the Godhead when the plan for creation and salvation was chosen before anything had been made, even before the angels were created. So, any explanation by man is opinion, but we can base our opinion on what we know about God's character revealed in Scripture and nature.
For me, I think that God decided that death would be the result of sin because He is Life and Holiness itself. Therefore, sin not only is disobedience and rebellion towards Him, but it also makes us corrupt and unholy, and unworthy of being in relationship with God or receiving eternal life in heaven with Him, (which is what He purposed for us to receive). Death does not allow us to have any of these wonderful benefits. It permanently separates us from God and His goodness (which is always benevolent to His living creatures). In death, we cannot benefit from the beauty and majesty of creation or the joy of relationships with one another or any other good that God has bestowed on all of creation. Death demonstrates to man that sin is very serious and should not be taken lightly by us. Death reminds us that our sinfulness separates us from God. Death makes us desire salvation.
I also think that God, in His wisdom, decided that the penalty for sin is death because He also knew ahead of time that Satan and his fallen angels (who do not die) would become totally corrupt and evil and irredeemable. He knew that if man did not die, we would be come just like Satan. Death spares us from being like him.
Romans 6:23 states that the wages of sin is death. This is exactly what God told Adam and Eve would happen if they disobeyed His command concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
2Cor. 5:21 says that He (the Father) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we may become the righteousness of God in Him (Jesus). Jesus took the totality of the sins of all humanity upon Himself on the cross to pay the full penalty of sin that we deserved for us. In His suffering and death the Father spent His wrath upon Jesus for our sins, effecting forgiveness for us. Also, He exchanged our sins for his righteousness through His death for us.
Jesus said to the disciples in the Last Supper Discourse that greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. (15:13) Here the Lord is telling of His death as the greatest act of love He can do for them (and us who believe). So, His death is His sacrificial love poured out for our benefit not His. the removal of our sin from us by His death reconciles us to God in such a way that we become friends of God instead of enemies; allows God to look upon us instead of away from us because He cannot look upon sin. We have the righteousness of God in us instead of our sinfulness. Hell is just this, God tuning away from those who remain His enemies due to their unbelief. This is because their unbelief prevents them from accessing the benefits of Christ's atoning death. They will forever be without God, without His mercy, without His grace, without His salvation.
Jesus' death breaks the power of sin in our lives and rescues us from hell and the devil's claim upon us. But even more, His death brings to us a future with God in heaven forever. Salvation is not just for this life, but for the life we will receive at the resurrection of our bodies. This was won for us through the resurrection of Jesus. Jesus said that He is the Resurrection and the Life. Jn. 11:25-26.
I believe others have very well covered the wages of sin is death and Christ as the sacrificial Lamb.
Romans 6:23.
Hebrews 9:22.
1 Peter 1:18-20...ect.
I would like to give attention to the importance of the resurrection.
If you noticed in 1 Peter 1:18-20. it says Christ crucifixion was ordained before the foundation of the world.
If we consider that verse with
1 Corinthians 15:45-50. and particular on 1 Corinthians 15:45. The life giving spirit now dwells in us and could only come by us being baptized in Christ death, "Cruxifying the old man which we had in Adam.
And we are also baptized in his resurrection.
We could have never gotten that by Adam.
And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Jn. 12:23-26.
I've seen it quoted like this:
By rising from the dead, Jesus Christ demonstrated that He had cleansed the guilt of our past and is able to help us in our present lives. His resurrection assures us that our future is safe and secure. Without Christ's resurrection we would have no salvation from sin, and no hope for our own future resurrection.
The empty tomb is proof of Christ's deity. End quote.
God bless.
John Chapter 10
16 And other sheep I have
(Gentiles), which are not of THIS fold (the Jewish believers): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be ONE fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man take it (His Life) from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Why? John 3:16
Because the whole Word must be fulfilled, Jesus came for us all died on the cross, when He did that He fulfilled the law.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Hebrew 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
When God Speak He who created the whole world and everything around us.
Genesis 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of
He created from what He sees from His thought's. He diddent only created thats who is like nice cats and dogs, but everything that we sees He created. And not only that we can see. We have a creation beyond that, more heavens and evan more earth becouse we have a underworld as well.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
When God speak who is Holy it has too be fulfilled. 1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever.
Ephesians 3:10 God bless u in Jesus Name.
Amen.
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