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God has never predestined anybody to be lost. That's where your free will comes in, and you have to determine for yourself what your choice will be. Predestination refers only to those who are saved. What it actually means is that when God starts out with one hundred sheep, He is going to come through with one hundred sheep. "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" ( Rom. 8:28-29). Dr. R. A. Torrey used to say that this is a wonderful pillow for a tired heart. Those who are called according to His purpose are predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son. We're talking now about saved people. Romans goes on to explain how this is done. "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" ( Rom. 8:30). When God starts out with one hundred sheep, He will come through with one hundred sheep. You must admit that that is a good percentage.
So we have Predestination and Mans free will.
I don't know how to reconcile them, but they are both true. The Father gives men to Christ, but men have to come. And the ones that come are the ones, apparently, whom the Father gives to Him.
End J Vernon Mcgee's Quote.
Some believe in what's called limited atonement. "Christ died for ONLY the elect, and they say "the elect" is who's predestinated.
Here's a verse that refutes that.
1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: AND NOT FOR OUR'S ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
Thanks brother S. Spencer for that pertinent discourse by McGee; he clearly & accurately presents the case for election & predestination.
In regards to his word, "So we have Predestination and Mans free will. I don't know how to reconcile them, but they are both true. The Father gives men to Christ, but men have to come. And the ones that come are the ones, apparently, whom the Father gives to Him".
I think of John 6:44, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." By His Spirit, God draws men to Him. The Gospel goes out to all but some are moved by its message & Work of God continues with that penitent soul. Others, receiving the Gospel remain unmoved, even against it, yet the Spirit continues His Work till that soul sees the Light. These are all part of the elect of God. Those who reject Christ to the end of their lives have by their Will shown that they are not part of God's Elect & nothing would ever move them towards desiring the Salvation of God. In summary, man cannot present any excuse to God in that final day.
God chose Israel in time; He chose the church in eternity. Since God made the choice in eternity, there has not arisen anything unforeseen to Him which has caused Him to revamp His program or change His mind. He knew the end from the beginning (see Acts 15:18).
First of all, we've seen that He chose us-and that's a pretty hard pill for us to swallow. Secondly, the Father predestinated us to the place of sonship. Thirdly, the Father made us accepted in the Beloved.
I cannot repeat often enough that election is God's choosing us in Christ. I emphasize again that men are not lost because they have not been elected. They are lost because they are sinners and that is the way they want it and that is the way they have chosen. The free will of man is never violated because of the election of God. The lost man makes his own choice. Augustine expressed it like this: "If there be not free will grace in God, how can He save the world? And if there be not free will in man, how can the world by God be judged?" Here again is Paul's strong statement, "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid" ( Rom. 9:14). Now if you think that there is some unrighteousness with God, you had better change your mind.
Predestination is never used in reference to unsaved people. God has never predestinated anybody to be lost. If you are lost, it is because you have rejected God's remedy. It is like a dying man to whom the doctor offers curing medicine. "If you take this, it'll heal you." The man looks at the doctor in amazement and says, "I don't believe you." Now the man dies and the doctor's report says he died of a certain disease, and that's accurate. But may I say to you, there was a remedy, and he actually died because he didn't take the remedy. God has provided a remedy.
He told me to preach the gospel to every creature that 'whosoever will may come.'" Jesus says, "and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." So, my friend, you can argue about election all you want to, but you can come. And if you come, He'll not cast you out. Someone may ask, "You mean that if I'm not the elect I can still come?" My friend, if you come you will be the elect.
The late Dr. Harry A. Ironside told this story. A little boy was asked, "Have you found Jesus?" The little fellow answered, "Sir, I didn't know He was lost. But I was lost and He found me." My friend, you don't find Jesus. He finds you. He is the One who went out after the lost sheep, and He is the One who found that sheep. God chose believers in Christ before the foundation of the world, way back in eternity past. That means that you and I didn't do the choosing. He did not choose us because we were good or because we would do some good, but He did choose us so that we could do some good. The entire choice is thrown back upon the sovereignty of the wisdom and goodness of God alone. It was Charles Spurgeon who once said, "God chose me before I came into the world, because if He'd waited until I got here, He never would have chosen me." It is God who has chosen us - we have not chosen Him. The Lord Jesus said to His own in the Upper Room, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you " ( John 15:16). Dr. G. Campbell Morgan commented, "That puts the responsibility on Him. If He did the choosing, then He's responsible." That makes it quite wonderful!
Israel furnishes us an example of this divine choosing. "Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities" ( Amos 3:1-2).
This thirty-seventh verse is a very important verse. There is a theological argument that rages today on election or free will. There are some people who put all their eggs in the basket of election. There are others who put all their eggs in the basket of free will. I'm not proposing to reconcile the two because I have discovered that I cannot. If you had met me the year that I entered seminary, or the year I graduated, I could have reconciled them for you. I never have been as smart as I was my first year and my last year in seminary. I knew it all then. I could reconcile election and free will, and it was a marvelous explanation. Now I've even forgotten what it was. It was pretty silly, if you want to know the truth.
Election and free will are both in this verse. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me" states a truth, and that is election. But wait a minute! and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" is also true, and "him that cometh to me" is free will. I don't know how to reconcile them, but they are both true. The Father gives men to Christ, but men have to come. And the ones that come are the ones, apparently, whom the Father gives to Him. You and I are down here, and we don't see into the machinery of heaven. I don't know how God runs that computer of election, but I know that He has given to you and to me a free will and we have to exercise it.
Because Spurgeon preached a "whosoever will" gospel, someone said to him, "If I believed like you do about election, I wouldn't preach like you do." Spurgeon's answer was something like this, "If the Lord had put a yellow stripe down the backs of the elect, I'd go up and down the street lifting up shirt tails, finding out who had the yellow stripe, and then I'd give them the gospel. But God didn't do it that way.
Part 4.
God has never predestined anybody to be lost. That's where your free will comes in, and you have to determine for yourself what your choice will be. Predestination refers only to those who are saved. What it actually means is that when God starts out with one hundred sheep, He is going to come through with one hundred sheep. "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" ( Rom. 8:28-29). Dr. R. A. Torrey used to say that this is a wonderful pillow for a tired heart. Those who are called according to His purpose are predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son. We're talking now about saved people. Romans goes on to explain how this is done. "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" ( Rom. 8:30). When God starts out with one hundred sheep, He will come through with one hundred sheep. You must admit that that is a good percentage.
So we have Predestination and Mans free will.
I don't know how to reconcile them, but they are both true. The Father gives men to Christ, but men have to come. And the ones that come are the ones, apparently, whom the Father gives to Him.
End J Vernon Mcgee's Quote.
Some believe in what's called limited atonement. "Christ died for ONLY the elect, and they say "the elect" is who's predestinated.
Here's a verse that refutes that.
1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: AND NOT FOR OUR'S ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
In regards to his word, "So we have Predestination and Mans free will. I don't know how to reconcile them, but they are both true. The Father gives men to Christ, but men have to come. And the ones that come are the ones, apparently, whom the Father gives to Him".
I think of John 6:44, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." By His Spirit, God draws men to Him. The Gospel goes out to all but some are moved by its message & Work of God continues with that penitent soul. Others, receiving the Gospel remain unmoved, even against it, yet the Spirit continues His Work till that soul sees the Light. These are all part of the elect of God. Those who reject Christ to the end of their lives have by their Will shown that they are not part of God's Elect & nothing would ever move them towards desiring the Salvation of God. In summary, man cannot present any excuse to God in that final day.
God bless.
Part 3.
God chose Israel in time; He chose the church in eternity. Since God made the choice in eternity, there has not arisen anything unforeseen to Him which has caused Him to revamp His program or change His mind. He knew the end from the beginning (see Acts 15:18).
First of all, we've seen that He chose us-and that's a pretty hard pill for us to swallow. Secondly, the Father predestinated us to the place of sonship. Thirdly, the Father made us accepted in the Beloved.
I cannot repeat often enough that election is God's choosing us in Christ. I emphasize again that men are not lost because they have not been elected. They are lost because they are sinners and that is the way they want it and that is the way they have chosen. The free will of man is never violated because of the election of God. The lost man makes his own choice. Augustine expressed it like this: "If there be not free will grace in God, how can He save the world? And if there be not free will in man, how can the world by God be judged?" Here again is Paul's strong statement, "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid" ( Rom. 9:14). Now if you think that there is some unrighteousness with God, you had better change your mind.
Predestination is never used in reference to unsaved people. God has never predestinated anybody to be lost. If you are lost, it is because you have rejected God's remedy. It is like a dying man to whom the doctor offers curing medicine. "If you take this, it'll heal you." The man looks at the doctor in amazement and says, "I don't believe you." Now the man dies and the doctor's report says he died of a certain disease, and that's accurate. But may I say to you, there was a remedy, and he actually died because he didn't take the remedy. God has provided a remedy.
See part 4.
Part 2.
He told me to preach the gospel to every creature that 'whosoever will may come.'" Jesus says, "and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." So, my friend, you can argue about election all you want to, but you can come. And if you come, He'll not cast you out. Someone may ask, "You mean that if I'm not the elect I can still come?" My friend, if you come you will be the elect.
The late Dr. Harry A. Ironside told this story. A little boy was asked, "Have you found Jesus?" The little fellow answered, "Sir, I didn't know He was lost. But I was lost and He found me." My friend, you don't find Jesus. He finds you. He is the One who went out after the lost sheep, and He is the One who found that sheep. God chose believers in Christ before the foundation of the world, way back in eternity past. That means that you and I didn't do the choosing. He did not choose us because we were good or because we would do some good, but He did choose us so that we could do some good. The entire choice is thrown back upon the sovereignty of the wisdom and goodness of God alone. It was Charles Spurgeon who once said, "God chose me before I came into the world, because if He'd waited until I got here, He never would have chosen me." It is God who has chosen us - we have not chosen Him. The Lord Jesus said to His own in the Upper Room, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you " ( John 15:16). Dr. G. Campbell Morgan commented, "That puts the responsibility on Him. If He did the choosing, then He's responsible." That makes it quite wonderful!
Israel furnishes us an example of this divine choosing. "Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities" ( Amos 3:1-2).
See Part 3.
Here's a writing from J Vernon Mcgee.
Part 1 of ?
John 6:37.
This thirty-seventh verse is a very important verse. There is a theological argument that rages today on election or free will. There are some people who put all their eggs in the basket of election. There are others who put all their eggs in the basket of free will. I'm not proposing to reconcile the two because I have discovered that I cannot. If you had met me the year that I entered seminary, or the year I graduated, I could have reconciled them for you. I never have been as smart as I was my first year and my last year in seminary. I knew it all then. I could reconcile election and free will, and it was a marvelous explanation. Now I've even forgotten what it was. It was pretty silly, if you want to know the truth.
Election and free will are both in this verse. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me" states a truth, and that is election. But wait a minute! and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" is also true, and "him that cometh to me" is free will. I don't know how to reconcile them, but they are both true. The Father gives men to Christ, but men have to come. And the ones that come are the ones, apparently, whom the Father gives to Him. You and I are down here, and we don't see into the machinery of heaven. I don't know how God runs that computer of election, but I know that He has given to you and to me a free will and we have to exercise it.
Because Spurgeon preached a "whosoever will" gospel, someone said to him, "If I believed like you do about election, I wouldn't preach like you do." Spurgeon's answer was something like this, "If the Lord had put a yellow stripe down the backs of the elect, I'd go up and down the street lifting up shirt tails, finding out who had the yellow stripe, and then I'd give them the gospel. But God didn't do it that way.
See Part 2.
Mark 4, Matthew 22, Matthew 25:31-46, Mark 14:21, John 17,
Hopefully these help you in your understanding
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