Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Mark francis - 2 years ago
    Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 refer to religious individuals who professed Christianity for a while but then fell away for one reason or another. These types of superficial but lost Christians are spoken of by the Lord in Matthew 7:

    Matthew 7:23

    And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Jesus did not say He once knew them before they fell away, but He never knew them.
  • RichFairhurst - In Reply - 2 years ago
    To add to what both of you have said, Mt 7:15-21 and Jn 15:1-8 have striking similarities. Both include a statement that fruitlessness ultimately leads to the fruitless being cut off/down and cast into the fire Mt 7:19, Jn 15:2,6. It is important to note that by the time Jesus spoke the words of Jn 15, Judas had already departed/fallen away to betray Jesus before Jesus spoke about Himself as the vine with fruitless branches being cut off and thrown away by the Father as the vinedresser. Judas was the only fruitless branch among the twelve previously, and he had now been cut off.

    Jesus also said in Jn 15 that fruitful branches would be pruned/cleaned by the Father to bear more fruit Jn 15:2. He then called all of the remaining disciples pruned/cleaned by His word spoken to them Jn 15:3. The disciples that remained/abided had not fallen away when Jesus' words were difficult to understand and caused other disciples to stumble Jn 6:61-66, they clung to Jesus by faith Jn 6:67-69, but Judas was already different Jn 6:70-71. They didn't conspire to betray Him to enrich themselves when Jesus defended extravagant value being placed on Himself alone that they couldn't profit by: Mt 26:6-16, Mk 14:3-11, Jn 12:3-8. Judas clearly meant to profit through his deception about caring for the poor since he never cared for them. He only cared for himself as fruitless people do. Mt 7:18 divided the others from Judas.

    The disciples that remained nonetheless did not fully know their own hearts and protested that they would never forsake Jesus, but would rather die with Him. Peter's threefold denials were crushing. But by this point they were clean/pruned and Jesus could entrust them to the Father's care to keep them according to His prayer as He had kept them by His words that cleaned them. Through Christ's intercession they were given grace to repent when they really finally understood what Jesus had been talking about when He said He would rise from the dead. Grace!
  • Jesse - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Mark,

    I agree. The key is that these are "religious individuals," not saved believers because like you say, a saved believer is someone who Jesus knows. Jesus knows all those who belong to Him (Saved individuals). And you are correct in that He will never say to us "Depart from me, I never knew you."

    People today still take those verses in Hebrews, mainly Hebrews 6:4-6, and Hebrews 10:26 to show that salvation can be lost. But that cannot be because Jesus cannot say He knows us now and then later on say depart, I never knew you. Those verses in Hebrews are talking about religious Jews who were turning back to Judaism because of what it would cost them to surrender their life to Christ as their Messiah, not saved people losing their salvation.

    You make a great point. Thanks for sharing!



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