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Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 186406
Only God determines your time of death. If you kill yourself you have committed a sin for which you cannot be forgiven because you are dead. I have attempted suicide 33 times in my life and every time I really didn't want to die I just wanted the pain to go away. The enemy is saying your life is not worth fighting for and that is wrong. Jesus saved me and I have not had a suicide attempt in 5 years. I may not be spot on with this, but suicide is described in the Bible when Judas Iscariot hung himself after betraying Jesus. Trust in Jesus and you won't need to worry about suicide anymore, because He will take that desire away from you. Hope this helps. God bless.
We could go to the extreme of Samson's death to affirm it isn't the case. The death; however was for the greater purposes of God and for His glory in destruction of His enemies. I know of two individuals (one that I knew much better) who were believers that took their own lives. There is nowhere that states the "unforgiveable sin" is suicide. There are those who have killed their unborn and made peace with God. There are murderers such as Jeffrey Dahmer who appear to have had genuine repentance before the death penalty was enforced as the deserved result of their previous actions. The only unpardonable sin is "blasphemy" of the Holy Ghost: i.e. attributing EVIL to the attributes of the Spirit. Thankfully; there are few that are given to that; but it still is a sobering warning.
I don't buy that one can "lose their salvation." Certainly; there are those who are driven to such actions who are unbelievers; although I am sure there are some who may come to faith in their last moments on earth. The one friend I knew rather well decided to get off her antidepressants being bipolar. This is never wise; but over time things can be tapered off under supervision. The loss of spiritual rewards in heaven certainly results from such actions; however. Without the person on earth (if a believer); others aren't ministered to; and there are things cut short which the person was supposed to do. Ultimately; the Lord knows all these things ahead of time. There is also fear among survivors that murder really had something to do with it; in some situations with unknown answers.
The enemy comes to seek to kill; steal and destroy. May He grant you intercessory prayer for those in your path that currently struggle with such things. I can only hope that isn't something you are struggling with as well. Agape. Rich P
Dear Lynn, I am sorry that things are so hard for you right now. It sounds like you have endured much grief and sorrow. If someone you loved committed suicide, then that is so hard to address. If so, it is important to release that person to God and His perfect judgment. Worrying about someone's eternal place robs us of the comfort and peace of trusting God. I hope you can heal from what has happened and I will pray for you tonight.
Dear heavenly Father, Lynn is so tired and tried by all that has been allowed to happen in her life and in the life of those she loves, She is in need of Your strengthening and peace. Please shower her with these and with the abundance of Your grace and mercy. Fill her heart with good thoughts and emotions that build her up. Your Holy Spirit can do this. We ask You, Holy Spirit to fill Lynn up with Your presence and gracious care. Overflow her heart with joy amidst trials and steadfastness in her faith. Uplift Lynn's soul and bring good into her life at this time. Stop all of the hurtful and negative things from happening in her life. She needs relief that only You can provide. Bring her relief. Surround her with Your protection and power so that the enemy will be thwarted and kept from her. We ask these things in the name of Your Son, Jesus, our wonderful Savior and Lord of all. Amen.
Brother S Spencer, I have been fine, thank you for inquiring.
I believe if you study the prophets long enough and as the Spirit of Christ reveals truth to us, we will find that God isn't calling everyone into the kingdom now, only the firstfruits. Ezekiel 5:1-5
They along with Christ will judge the world after the second resurrection and all will be brought to TRUTH.
The Ten Commandments says you should not commit murder . To me suicide is self murder . I do believe if the person doesn't die instantly and asks for forgiveness they are forgiven.
Lynn, the grave awaits those that commit suicide, they will be brought back to their flesh at the second resurrection, judged, brought to truth, and given their place in the Kingdom of God.
Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the world SHALL REMEMBER and TURN unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship thee.
Acts 17:26 And hath made of ONE BLOOD all nations to DWELL on all the FACE OF THE EARTH, and hath DETERMINED the times before APPOINTED, and the BOUNDS of their habitation.
Christ give us eyes to see the TRUTH in your WORDS.
"the grave awaits those that commit suicide, they will be brought back to their flesh at the second resurrection, judged, brought to truth, and given their place in the Kingdom of God."
The two assumptions I see in this sentence is that dead people (or cremated) will go back to the flesh, and second, that all people will go to the "Kingdom of God." I assume by that term you mean eternal life in heaven.
So, when I read 1 Corinthians 15:42-44 to me that says we will not go back into the same flesh as before, but one that is now "imperishable" as it says, and one that is a spiritual body.
As for assuming someone who commits suicide will go to heaven, I'm not sure if that's what you mean or not. If so, I'm not sure where that belief comes from because the Bible clearly says most people will go to hell, not to heaven. Matthew 7:13. Salvation is conditional upon people taking action to follow Jesus. The Bible says "if" many times like in Romans 10:9, 1 John 1:9, John 15:10, John 14:15. God bless.
There seems to be a little confusion in your answer, ELB.
It is true, at the last trumpet, we will all be united with our flesh - but those who have rejected Christ and died in sin will NOT be brought to truth on the other side of this earth!
TODAY is the day of salvation! We must repent while on this EARTH, ELB! Listen to the words of Christ in John 5:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Those who have done evil will be damned, for they did not cross from death to life HERE by believing the gospel. And, as I said in a recent thread, no murderers are in heaven, as we clearly see in Revelation 21:18 -
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
I pray these words are a help to you, and Lynn and anyone else reading this thread.
Kay, is Christ saviour of the world or do you believe man has to save himself by not rejecting Christ.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, that is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those that believe.
Philippians 1:29 For UNTO YOU IT IS GIVEN in behalf of Christ. not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.
Not all men are caused to believe, by Christ, in the age we are now in, but will do so after the next age.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of creation WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD,
Romans 8:20 For creation was MADE SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason OF HIM who hath subjected the same IN HOPE,
Romans 8:21 For creation itself shall also BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (the grave) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Paul was rejecting the truth of God's word, but in a flash of light Paul fell to his knees.
God is perfectly capable of saving man.
And all UNBELIEVERS shall be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
I came out of a religious system that had many traditions and actions we had to do in order to be saved. Jesus wonderfully saved me almost 40 years ago, ELB. As I read Ephesians 2:8 I was given the understanding by God's grace that ONLY by grace and the merits of Christ can I be saved.
However, it is through the Word, and the faith given by hearing it, helped me to put my hand of faith on Christ's head - the Lamb of God Who took my sin, laid it on himself, and paid the horrid debt I owed.
The Word will explain itself:
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 2:
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
So - were the apostles promoting works??? THEY to whom the gospel was given to preach command 'repentance' and 'believing'...So...what's going on here? :)
It seems there is confusion between the 'root' and the 'fruit', as James adequately describes. Faith without works is dead faith. We are not saved by works AT ALL but by the FINISHED work of CHRIST; however, real,true, Holy Spirit-birthed, saving faith inwardly will produce the outward act of repentance and belief. The inner divine work is the root; the fruit is the outward change seen in the life of one truly born again.
Kay, is it your faith, or Christ faith: that has been given to you. If it's is his faith then it has to be HIS WORKS also.
Psalms 92:4 For thou Lord, has made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands.
Psalms 92:3 O Lord, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep.
Psalms 92:4 A brutish man knoweth not, nor doeth a fool understand this.
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations.
Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Kay, we died on the cross, the life now in us is Christ.
Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery.... CHRIST IN YOU....
Philippians 2:13 For it is God (CHRIST IN YOU) that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
We are the body of Christ.
Psalms 104:30 Thou (Father) sendeth forth thy Spirit (Christ in you), they are created, thou renewest the face of the earth (with son's of God).
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH for the manifestation of the Sons of God.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Many years ago now, the Lord directed me to 'seek the old paths, where is the right way..." I began to read the old-time preachers; what I have found out is that none of them that I have read so far who commented on the topic of suicide said that whosoever commits suicide goes to heaven.
In the book "Pilgrim's Progress", by John Bunyan, there is an interesting discourse between Christian and Hopeful which took place when they were prisoners of Giant Despair, held captive in a stinking dungeon. The Giant beat them severely, and withheld food and drink to them; their case was miserable. In their misery, the Giant advised them to kill themselves, because there was little hope they'd ever get out of prison.
Christian desponded greatly, and actually considered taking his life. Thanks be to God for a good brother in Hopeful, who said to him: "But let us consider what the Lord of the country to which we are going has to say. He declares, "You shall not
commit murder, no not to another man's person." How much more then are we forbidden to take the Giant's advice and kill
ourselves. Besides, he who kills another can only commit murder upon his body; but for one to kill himself is to kill both body and soul at the same time. And moreover, my brother, you talk about ease in the grave; but have you forgotten the Hell where it is certain that murderers go? For no murderer has eternal life,"
I listened to a video on the "Servus Christi' you tube channel entitled, "Suicide - A Biblical Warning." It is one of the best lessons on this subject I've ever heard.
Thank you George , I was taught as a child that suicides go to hell and that it's a sin . The story of Samson seems to refute this theory and I can't find any evidence in the Bible to back it up . The world we live in is often a horrible place , full of injustice and cruelty and serious suffering for many people . As Christians we have enormous comfort and a well of strength and precious promises to look forward to and to get us through the trials of this life . However , I remember what my life was like before I knew the truth . We need to always be kind to none Christians and patient with their weaknesses , remembering that they are in this world with no idea what's coming and therefore they are in the world without hope or consolation or comfort in the way that we have .
I had forgotten to mention in my first post on this topic, that I've read others' comments on Samson, which make sense. Samson didn't commit suicide, but what he did was an act of war to take down (literally!) the bitter enemies of Israel. That's an interesting differentiation.
If Samson was suicidal - he could have done himself in before that - but it's obvious from the Biblical account, he saw an opportunity to fight his peoples' enemies, and laid down his life to do it.
Kay, I was thinking the same thing about Samson when he was mentioned on this thread. His actions were an act of war in which he knew he would die as a result. But, he did this to fight against the enemies of Israel that were a real threat.
I don't buy that one can "lose their salvation." Certainly; there are those who are driven to such actions who are unbelievers; although I am sure there are some who may come to faith in their last moments on earth. The one friend I knew rather well decided to get off her antidepressants being bipolar. This is never wise; but over time things can be tapered off under supervision. The loss of spiritual rewards in heaven certainly results from such actions; however. Without the person on earth (if a believer); others aren't ministered to; and there are things cut short which the person was supposed to do. Ultimately; the Lord knows all these things ahead of time. There is also fear among survivors that murder really had something to do with it; in some situations with unknown answers.
The enemy comes to seek to kill; steal and destroy. May He grant you intercessory prayer for those in your path that currently struggle with such things. I can only hope that isn't something you are struggling with as well. Agape. Rich P
Dear heavenly Father, Lynn is so tired and tried by all that has been allowed to happen in her life and in the life of those she loves, She is in need of Your strengthening and peace. Please shower her with these and with the abundance of Your grace and mercy. Fill her heart with good thoughts and emotions that build her up. Your Holy Spirit can do this. We ask You, Holy Spirit to fill Lynn up with Your presence and gracious care. Overflow her heart with joy amidst trials and steadfastness in her faith. Uplift Lynn's soul and bring good into her life at this time. Stop all of the hurtful and negative things from happening in her life. She needs relief that only You can provide. Bring her relief. Surround her with Your protection and power so that the enemy will be thwarted and kept from her. We ask these things in the name of Your Son, Jesus, our wonderful Savior and Lord of all. Amen.
I believe if you study the prophets long enough and as the Spirit of Christ reveals truth to us, we will find that God isn't calling everyone into the kingdom now, only the firstfruits. Ezekiel 5:1-5
They along with Christ will judge the world after the second resurrection and all will be brought to TRUTH.
God bless us as we fulfil his will.
I know we don't hold the same views on a few things but It's great that you are doing fine and well!
That's wonderful!
God bless.
Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the world SHALL REMEMBER and TURN unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship thee.
Acts 17:26 And hath made of ONE BLOOD all nations to DWELL on all the FACE OF THE EARTH, and hath DETERMINED the times before APPOINTED, and the BOUNDS of their habitation.
Christ give us eyes to see the TRUTH in your WORDS.
I'd like to comment on your comment:
"the grave awaits those that commit suicide, they will be brought back to their flesh at the second resurrection, judged, brought to truth, and given their place in the Kingdom of God."
The two assumptions I see in this sentence is that dead people (or cremated) will go back to the flesh, and second, that all people will go to the "Kingdom of God." I assume by that term you mean eternal life in heaven.
So, when I read 1 Corinthians 15:42-44 to me that says we will not go back into the same flesh as before, but one that is now "imperishable" as it says, and one that is a spiritual body.
As for assuming someone who commits suicide will go to heaven, I'm not sure if that's what you mean or not. If so, I'm not sure where that belief comes from because the Bible clearly says most people will go to hell, not to heaven. Matthew 7:13. Salvation is conditional upon people taking action to follow Jesus. The Bible says "if" many times like in Romans 10:9, 1 John 1:9, John 15:10, John 14:15. God bless.
It is true, at the last trumpet, we will all be united with our flesh - but those who have rejected Christ and died in sin will NOT be brought to truth on the other side of this earth!
TODAY is the day of salvation! We must repent while on this EARTH, ELB! Listen to the words of Christ in John 5:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Those who have done evil will be damned, for they did not cross from death to life HERE by believing the gospel. And, as I said in a recent thread, no murderers are in heaven, as we clearly see in Revelation 21:18 -
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
I pray these words are a help to you, and Lynn and anyone else reading this thread.
God bless!
God bless.
that He encouraged you by His Word!
Blessings!
God bless!
John 3:13 And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery....CHRIST IN YOU.....
Revelation 21:1 and I say a NEW HEAVEN.....CHRIST IN YOU.... for the FIRST HEAVEN had passed away....
Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God then the kingdom of God (CHRIST IN YOU) has come unto you.
Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven (in you): Michael and his angels fought against the dragon ....(deception, lies falsehoods)
Revelation 12:8 And (lies, falsehoods and deception) prevailed not; neither was THEIR PLACE found anymore in HEAVEN (in you).
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying IN HEAVEN (in you), Now is come SALVATION ....
Revelation 12:12 Therefore now rejoice, YE HEAVENS .......
Ezekiel 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord God, doth not he speak in parables.
Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing SEE NOT, and hearing they HEAR NOT, neither do they UNDERSTAND.
Christ came to heal the blind and deaf and cause the lame to walk.
GBU
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, that is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those that believe.
Philippians 1:29 For UNTO YOU IT IS GIVEN in behalf of Christ. not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.
Not all men are caused to believe, by Christ, in the age we are now in, but will do so after the next age.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of creation WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD,
Romans 8:20 For creation was MADE SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason OF HIM who hath subjected the same IN HOPE,
Romans 8:21 For creation itself shall also BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (the grave) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Paul was rejecting the truth of God's word, but in a flash of light Paul fell to his knees.
God is perfectly capable of saving man.
And all UNBELIEVERS shall be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
GBU
You quoted.
""Not all men are caused to believe, by Christ, in the age we are now in, but will do so after the next age.""?
You have a familiar doctrine,
Similar to a recent friend.
I'm not saying I hold those views but they sound familiar.
You wouldn't be Earl Bowman would you? If so how have you been?
However, it is through the Word, and the faith given by hearing it, helped me to put my hand of faith on Christ's head - the Lamb of God Who took my sin, laid it on himself, and paid the horrid debt I owed.
The Word will explain itself:
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 2:
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
So - were the apostles promoting works??? THEY to whom the gospel was given to preach command 'repentance' and 'believing'...So...what's going on here? :)
It seems there is confusion between the 'root' and the 'fruit', as James adequately describes. Faith without works is dead faith. We are not saved by works AT ALL but by the FINISHED work of CHRIST; however, real,true, Holy Spirit-birthed, saving faith inwardly will produce the outward act of repentance and belief. The inner divine work is the root; the fruit is the outward change seen in the life of one truly born again.
Grace and blessing!
Psalms 92:4 For thou Lord, has made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands.
Psalms 92:3 O Lord, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep.
Psalms 92:4 A brutish man knoweth not, nor doeth a fool understand this.
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations.
Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Kay, we died on the cross, the life now in us is Christ.
Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery.... CHRIST IN YOU....
Philippians 2:13 For it is God (CHRIST IN YOU) that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
We are the body of Christ.
Psalms 104:30 Thou (Father) sendeth forth thy Spirit (Christ in you), they are created, thou renewest the face of the earth (with son's of God).
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH for the manifestation of the Sons of God.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
God bless you.
In the book "Pilgrim's Progress", by John Bunyan, there is an interesting discourse between Christian and Hopeful which took place when they were prisoners of Giant Despair, held captive in a stinking dungeon. The Giant beat them severely, and withheld food and drink to them; their case was miserable. In their misery, the Giant advised them to kill themselves, because there was little hope they'd ever get out of prison.
Christian desponded greatly, and actually considered taking his life. Thanks be to God for a good brother in Hopeful, who said to him: "But let us consider what the Lord of the country to which we are going has to say. He declares, "You shall not
commit murder, no not to another man's person." How much more then are we forbidden to take the Giant's advice and kill
ourselves. Besides, he who kills another can only commit murder upon his body; but for one to kill himself is to kill both body and soul at the same time. And moreover, my brother, you talk about ease in the grave; but have you forgotten the Hell where it is certain that murderers go? For no murderer has eternal life,"
I listened to a video on the "Servus Christi' you tube channel entitled, "Suicide - A Biblical Warning." It is one of the best lessons on this subject I've ever heard.
Blessings!
I had forgotten to mention in my first post on this topic, that I've read others' comments on Samson, which make sense. Samson didn't commit suicide, but what he did was an act of war to take down (literally!) the bitter enemies of Israel. That's an interesting differentiation.
If Samson was suicidal - he could have done himself in before that - but it's obvious from the Biblical account, he saw an opportunity to fight his peoples' enemies, and laid down his life to do it.
Blessings!
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