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In Luke 1 Mary is told she would conceive in her womb.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
That indicated to me that the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ was similar to all births.
The difference was that it happened because the Holy Spirit planted the seed of God into Mary.
The seed of God impregnated the seed of the women producing the Lord Jesus Christ.
His birth was the same as all babies born of women. How each and everyone of us are born.
Jesus is before Abraham ( John 8:58) but is that physically or in Gods mind?
Consider Genesis 3:15 the seed of the women.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
This is the seed of the women. This is a future event. It hasn't happened yet.
This is long before Abraham is even mentioned. Before Abraham was, I am.
The character of Jesus is mention in the time of Adam and Eve. Right at the beginning of the world.
Jesus is before all others in scripture but he wasn't physically formed until his conception and his birth by Mary.
He was in Gods mind right from the creation of the earth in the time of Adam and Eve.
God will and does say things exist even of they don't at this moment.
When God says things will happen then be sure they will.
It does not mean they are physically there now. Rest assured they will happen but in Gods good time.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Isa 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
God with us and God the Son are two totally different things.
God is with us through his son Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus has been elevated to the right hand of God.
Act 2:32-33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Jesus is raised by God and exalted.
If Jesus is God this verse does not make sense.
God exalting God?
How can he be coequal?
You mentioned relating Adam to Christ.
I didn't do that the scriptures did.
Paul's letter to the Corinthians 15:45
Paul is comparing Jesus to Adam
The first is physical the second is spiritual.
If you go back to 1 Cor 15:21
Notice here that Jesus benefitted from his own sacrifice.
All in Adam died. Notice Jesus died.
God raised Jesus from the dead.
Jesus is the first fruits of those of Adams race.
The rest will be raised when Jesus returns to this earth to set up his kingdom on this earth.
1Co 15:21-23 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order: Christ the FIRSTFRUITS; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Jim, like Adam, I think we are at an impasse here. I do not wish to get further involved in this thread. I wish you well, but I definitely do not agree with your interpretation. I believe that Jesus is human, but also the eternal Son of God, equally
god but subordinated Himself to the Father by choice in eternity past when the plan of creation and salvation of mankind was determined within the Godhead of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Your comments are interesting. But I think you are splitting hairs.
Just because it doesn't say son doesn't mean they aren't sons.
Each offspring is of the person mentioned after them.
They are the son of each person mentioned with Adam mentioned as of God.
So yes you could say it doesn't say son but it is implied.
Jesus also calls himself the son of man. Mary is his mother.
God is his Father.
He is the son of man and the son of God.
Son of man is used something like 89 times in the New Testament.
Son of God is used 48 times in the New Testament.
Adam is not God but at Jesus birth he was not God either.
He is a God to us now but only because God has elevated him to that position.
He is at Gods right hand.
These verses show that there is a difference between Jesus and God.
1Co 15:26-28 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
The Son also himself will be subject to his Heavenly Father that God maybe all in all.
Well Jim, you're doing well in keeping up with all the comments to you. And if I may continue as well.
I don't believe any of us have a problem with Jesus being called the Son of God & the Son of Man - for so He is. From your understanding, Jesus began life only at birth, as the Holy Spirit placed the Seed in Mary (of God) & she then gave birth to a Man (of man).
So, the passage you quoted ( 1 Cor 15:26-28) & others signifying Jesus' elevated Position & having all things subject to Him & He being subject to the Father, I would agree to as Jesus was raised from the dead as Man, ascended & at the right Hand of God, receiving worship, & fulfilling His Position in God's Design. The problem does not lie here as we agree to these things. The problem lies whether this Holy One was in an earlier 'Divine State' or not; was He part of the Godhead or only a newly created Being born in Bethlehem?
I noted your understanding, to Adam, on the John 1:1 verse, specifically, "I'm saying that the word of God is instilled in Our Lord Jesus." And John 6:38 as well: "The Holy Spirit of God from heaven produced the manna on earth. The same with Jesus. The Holy Spirit descended on Mary and created the Lord Jesus Christ."
To John 1:1: there are other hurdles to overcome here, viz verses 3 & 14. Verse 3 speaks of "all things being made by Him" & verse 14, "the Word (i.e. that which was with God & was God - of v1) was made flesh". So here we have Someone creating (also seen in Colossians 1:13-17) & that Word from God being given flesh. I doubt if any could avoid a clear understanding of what is being taught here. And then we have John 8:57,58, John 17:5, etc. If I avoided these verses, I could well agree with you, but Scripture taken in totality simply presents this Jesus as Someone far greater from eternity than a special sinless creation in Bethlehem. It would be interesting to learn your view on these other verses, as many others have failed to come back to me when asked of them.
I'm with Ronald Whittemore on this , thanks Ron for your explanation . To you Vanessa , I think that u were correctly instructed , however , I urge into read the whole Bible for yourself rather than take any of our words for it . The Bible is for every one and the more u read the more u understand , read it all , not just the New . The Old is an excellent illuminator of the New . May God bless your efforts .
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's. Godhead, os theios, meaning godlike, divine, divinity.
We see this same word in 2 Peter 1:3-4 translated divine, referring to an attribute of God, not to God Himself.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Godhead, , theiots meaning divinity, divine nature, theiotes has same meaning as theios.
Colossians 2:8-9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead. bodily. theotes meaning deity.
My understanding, and I'm sure I am in the minority here; it refers to God's and Jesus's divine characteristics and nature. The word Godhead is used in conversation and discussion, referring to the trinity creed that I do not agree with. The divinity of Jesus the only begotten Son of God cannot be questioned. He is the beginning of creation and through Him all that is, Colossians 1:15-1 but there is many scriptures that does not support this creed.
I could post more but I hope you can use this in your study for your own understanding, not mine. Pray and let the Holy Spirit guide you.
Ephesians 3:9 and John 8:58 are two good places to start. These show Christ's part in the Creation along with the Father; and His "I AM" status as God existing before Abraham. If we refer to Him as the "Son of God" then the capital letter "S" indicates acknowledgement of Deity. We also see that the Holy Spirit; which is God and Christ dwelling with us ( John 14:23) is promised to remind us of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8).
There are other verses throughout scripture; starting with the "Elohim" in Genesis where man is said to be made in "our image" ( Genesis 1:26); other verses in Psalms about the presence of the Spirit or Christ ( Proverbs 8) since the beginning further prove this point. 1 Peter 1:2 shows all 3 parts of the Godhead; and that is repeated many other places. Perhaps the greatest proof to many is Isaiah 53 which mentions clearly that "God is with us". It is prophetic of Christ being "King of Kings" along with His sufferings and deity. It is only by divine revelation that Christ is known as being Lord and worshipped as Christ stated to Peter in Matthew 16:17. It is only by the Holy Spirit that Christ can be acknowledged (or fully understood) as coming in the flesh and any other spirit that says he didn't is not from God ( 1 John 4:2).
Truly; the righteousness of God coming in the form of a man was the only thing that could forgive us since the fall. He had to be as the second Adam ( 1 Cor. 15:45). The completion of this is the Rapture and or resurrection where we shall be in a glorified body! What is most sobering is that although He is the first of the Firstfruits risen from the dead; He alone will bear the scars as Psalm 22:16 states that they have "pierced His hands and feet." The hatred of the Pharisees was that He claimed to be God forgiving men's sins ( Luke 5:21). Hopefully this is a good start in your search for an answer to your question.
1 Corinthians 15:45,47: "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."
That is true what you quoted but it does not change the fact that both are called the Son of God. If they are both the Son of God they both had the same Father. If Jesus is God then Adam is also God. The difference is Adam failed.
If Adam isn't God then neither is Jesus.
Jesus had a human mother Adam didn't.
Also notice in your quotation from Corinthians they are both called man.
Just to take this further, Jim. I'm assuming that you're referring to Luke 3:38: "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." To remain true to the original language, the phrase "the son" (wherever it appears in the reading), is not shown in Greek. Rather, it would read, "...of Enos, which was of Seth, which was of Adam, which was of God"; as it would similarly read for the others in that passage.
From research, one can learn that in these verses (vv24-38), the Greek word 'tou' (with the genitive) means 'belonging to'; though in Luke 3:22,23, the word 'Son' is definitely used. Why the translators chose to add "the son of" is known only to them, though I suspect that in almost all cases there was a clear line of humanity (of 'begetting') which they carried through to the beginning, that of Adam. And the fact that "the son" is shown in italics, indicates that they understood that it wasn't in the original language.
With that aside, the 1 Corinthians chapter 15 reference by the apostle, was to show that though both Adam & Christ were alike in their 'coming' from God, their origins were totally different. Adam was created from the dust of the earth - Christ created into humanity by the Spirit of God ( Luke 1:35). The first was a product of the earth - the second a product from Heaven. True, Jesus was humanly formed & birthed & that was so, for His Coming was to be understood from the Davidic line, fulfilling the prophecies that went before Him & of course, to lay down His Life as a Sacrifice for all.
Then to assert that "Adam is also God", would be false, as there was nothing about Adam's creation to indicate that another god was produced & then fell. But for Jesus, His Coming was from God's Presence & Being - entitling Him to be called the Son of God & also worshipped.
Hi Jim, just noticed your comment about denying Jesus's divinity. People try to do that from time to time, but in order to do so requires cherry picking one verse, twisting it, then ignoring the mountain of other verses in the Bible. In this case you're conflating God's son with the phrase 'sons of God' which was used in a general sense. The same unsound logic can be applied to twist anything else into what you want it to mean. It's pretty hard to deny verses like John 1:1 that clearly say Jesus is God though. It takes mental gymnastics to escape the truth of such verses. Jesus in Isaiah 7:14 is called Immanuel which literally means "God with us" but its up to each person whether they want to accept Jesus or deny Him. 1 John 2:22-24
Do you consider yourself a Christian? To be a Christian means you follow Jesus Christ and if you don't believe Jesus is Lord then that is similar to what nonbelievers think. Some even admit who Jesus is, but still stubbornly won't accept Him. It's a spiritual battle. Matthew 7:21
John 14:6 - No one comes to the Father (also God) but through Jesus.
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
John 8:19 "if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
Philippians 2:5 - 2:8 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
2 Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
John 1:3 - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 20:28
Pretty hard to disregard all these Biblical truths about Jesus. He became flesh and died for you. Have you tried praying and asking who Jesus is and to reveal that to you?
Those who deny that Jesus is God have to pervert Scripture in ways you noted. Throughout the history of the church there have been those who deny the divinity of Jesus or His humanity. These ideas have been dealt with repeatedly over the centuries and Scripture refutes these claims and the church regards these claims as grave error. And here it emerges once again in this century. You are right to equate denying Jesus divinity with one who does not believe in Him.
This will be the last time I reply to you on this topic.
I took ample time to show numerous verses that clearly say Jesus is God and you deny it. It sounds like your heart is closed based on your response. That is between you and God. No amount of dialog between us will likely change your mind. So, I will wish you well because you are putting your hope and trust that verses like John 1:1 are wrong. It says Jesus (the Word) is God and you believe Jesus is "not" God. It sounds like you are reading it with your own premise, THEN finding and interpreting scripture to fit your premise, rather than starting with reading scripture first with an blank slate THEN praying for understanding. Every one of your points above are answered by just reading the Bible without any filters or bias.
While I appreciate respectul dialog up to this point, what I don't appreciate is a disingenious comment such as this "you totally ignored it." This is false. I didn't ignore anything. To try to figure out what you accused me of "ignoring" I now scrolled up to a higher comment where you posted a verse to someone else. Of course your same assumption of "ignoring" could be said about you, because you didn't respond to each of the verses like John 1:1 that I actually replied to you, not to someone else like you did.
You also didn't respond to my question to you if you've prayed about this? Have you prayed to know the truth about Jesus and have you felt any confirmation or anything in your heart as a response? I won't characterize you as intentionally ignoring as you did to me, but it's noteworthy that you haven't responded to this important point. God bless.
You're right I didn't respond to John 1:1. I could not respond to everything at on time.
Two many things at one time is sometimes over whelming.
We need to look at one or two passages at a time.
You said I didn't believe John 1:1
That is not true.
I did not believe your interpretation of John 1:1.
That is a big difference.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
You said that these verses say that Jesus is God.
I'm saying that the word of God is instilled in Our Lord Jesus God.
Jesus had his own will but he refused his own will and followed after his Fathers will perfectly.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
In John 6:38 Jesus said he came down from Heaven. What does he mean with that?
The chapter is dealing with the manna which came down from heaven.
The Holy Spirit of God from heaven produced the manna on earth.
The same with Jesus. The Holy Spirit descended on Mary and created the Lord Jesus Christ.
It was the seed of God with the seed of Mary.
You also need to remember Jesus spoke in parables.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
To comment on this word of ignoring which you used first.
You said I was cherry picking and then said I was ignoring the mountain of other verses.
We have limited amount of space.
I'm sorry but I can't deal with everything at one time.
As I said before we only have limited amount of space.
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Thanks. I believe all scripture comes from God.
Everyone believes their way is correct.
That's why we have scripture.
We should be using it to better understand God's way more perfectly.
It is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
For instruction in righteousness.
Thanks again
Jim
In Luke 1 Mary is told she would conceive in her womb.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
That indicated to me that the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ was similar to all births.
The difference was that it happened because the Holy Spirit planted the seed of God into Mary.
The seed of God impregnated the seed of the women producing the Lord Jesus Christ.
His birth was the same as all babies born of women. How each and everyone of us are born.
Jesus is before Abraham ( John 8:58) but is that physically or in Gods mind?
Consider Genesis 3:15 the seed of the women.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
This is the seed of the women. This is a future event. It hasn't happened yet.
This is long before Abraham is even mentioned. Before Abraham was, I am.
The character of Jesus is mention in the time of Adam and Eve. Right at the beginning of the world.
Jesus is before all others in scripture but he wasn't physically formed until his conception and his birth by Mary.
He was in Gods mind right from the creation of the earth in the time of Adam and Eve.
God will and does say things exist even of they don't at this moment.
When God says things will happen then be sure they will.
It does not mean they are physically there now. Rest assured they will happen but in Gods good time.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Isa 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
I'm out of space.
Thanks
[Comment Removed]
I don't mind the discussion.
As was mentioned before.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
As long as we are using Gods word it should be beneficial.
Thanks for your time
Jim
God with us and God the Son are two totally different things.
God is with us through his son Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus has been elevated to the right hand of God.
Act 2:32-33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Jesus is raised by God and exalted.
If Jesus is God this verse does not make sense.
God exalting God?
How can he be coequal?
You mentioned relating Adam to Christ.
I didn't do that the scriptures did.
Paul's letter to the Corinthians 15:45
Paul is comparing Jesus to Adam
The first is physical the second is spiritual.
If you go back to 1 Cor 15:21
Notice here that Jesus benefitted from his own sacrifice.
All in Adam died. Notice Jesus died.
God raised Jesus from the dead.
Jesus is the first fruits of those of Adams race.
The rest will be raised when Jesus returns to this earth to set up his kingdom on this earth.
1Co 15:21-23 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order: Christ the FIRSTFRUITS; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
god but subordinated Himself to the Father by choice in eternity past when the plan of creation and salvation of mankind was determined within the Godhead of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Your comments are interesting. But I think you are splitting hairs.
Just because it doesn't say son doesn't mean they aren't sons.
Each offspring is of the person mentioned after them.
They are the son of each person mentioned with Adam mentioned as of God.
So yes you could say it doesn't say son but it is implied.
Jesus also calls himself the son of man. Mary is his mother.
God is his Father.
He is the son of man and the son of God.
Son of man is used something like 89 times in the New Testament.
Son of God is used 48 times in the New Testament.
Adam is not God but at Jesus birth he was not God either.
He is a God to us now but only because God has elevated him to that position.
He is at Gods right hand.
These verses show that there is a difference between Jesus and God.
1Co 15:26-28 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
The Son also himself will be subject to his Heavenly Father that God maybe all in all.
I don't believe any of us have a problem with Jesus being called the Son of God & the Son of Man - for so He is. From your understanding, Jesus began life only at birth, as the Holy Spirit placed the Seed in Mary (of God) & she then gave birth to a Man (of man).
So, the passage you quoted ( 1 Cor 15:26-28) & others signifying Jesus' elevated Position & having all things subject to Him & He being subject to the Father, I would agree to as Jesus was raised from the dead as Man, ascended & at the right Hand of God, receiving worship, & fulfilling His Position in God's Design. The problem does not lie here as we agree to these things. The problem lies whether this Holy One was in an earlier 'Divine State' or not; was He part of the Godhead or only a newly created Being born in Bethlehem?
I noted your understanding, to Adam, on the John 1:1 verse, specifically, "I'm saying that the word of God is instilled in Our Lord Jesus." And John 6:38 as well: "The Holy Spirit of God from heaven produced the manna on earth. The same with Jesus. The Holy Spirit descended on Mary and created the Lord Jesus Christ."
To John 1:1: there are other hurdles to overcome here, viz verses 3 & 14. Verse 3 speaks of "all things being made by Him" & verse 14, "the Word (i.e. that which was with God & was God - of v1) was made flesh". So here we have Someone creating (also seen in Colossians 1:13-17) & that Word from God being given flesh. I doubt if any could avoid a clear understanding of what is being taught here. And then we have John 8:57,58, John 17:5, etc. If I avoided these verses, I could well agree with you, but Scripture taken in totality simply presents this Jesus as Someone far greater from eternity than a special sinless creation in Bethlehem. It would be interesting to learn your view on these other verses, as many others have failed to come back to me when asked of them.
The word Godhead is in the KJV three times.
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's. Godhead, os theios, meaning godlike, divine, divinity.
We see this same word in 2 Peter 1:3-4 translated divine, referring to an attribute of God, not to God Himself.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Godhead, , theiots meaning divinity, divine nature, theiotes has same meaning as theios.
Colossians 2:8-9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead. bodily. theotes meaning deity.
My understanding, and I'm sure I am in the minority here; it refers to God's and Jesus's divine characteristics and nature. The word Godhead is used in conversation and discussion, referring to the trinity creed that I do not agree with. The divinity of Jesus the only begotten Son of God cannot be questioned. He is the beginning of creation and through Him all that is, Colossians 1:15-1 but there is many scriptures that does not support this creed.
I could post more but I hope you can use this in your study for your own understanding, not mine. Pray and let the Holy Spirit guide you.
God bless,
RLW
There are other verses throughout scripture; starting with the "Elohim" in Genesis where man is said to be made in "our image" ( Genesis 1:26); other verses in Psalms about the presence of the Spirit or Christ ( Proverbs 8) since the beginning further prove this point. 1 Peter 1:2 shows all 3 parts of the Godhead; and that is repeated many other places. Perhaps the greatest proof to many is Isaiah 53 which mentions clearly that "God is with us". It is prophetic of Christ being "King of Kings" along with His sufferings and deity. It is only by divine revelation that Christ is known as being Lord and worshipped as Christ stated to Peter in Matthew 16:17. It is only by the Holy Spirit that Christ can be acknowledged (or fully understood) as coming in the flesh and any other spirit that says he didn't is not from God ( 1 John 4:2).
Truly; the righteousness of God coming in the form of a man was the only thing that could forgive us since the fall. He had to be as the second Adam ( 1 Cor. 15:45). The completion of this is the Rapture and or resurrection where we shall be in a glorified body! What is most sobering is that although He is the first of the Firstfruits risen from the dead; He alone will bear the scars as Psalm 22:16 states that they have "pierced His hands and feet." The hatred of the Pharisees was that He claimed to be God forgiving men's sins ( Luke 5:21). Hopefully this is a good start in your search for an answer to your question.
You mentioned Christ as the second Adam.( 1 Cor 15:45) If Jesus is the second Adam and is also God then the first Adam also had to be God.
They are both called the son of God. One was successful the other wasn't.
of God not to eat of one tree when he had many tress he could eat of, is offensive. One who is truly God cannot sin. Only Jesus
never sinned. Only Jesus is the One and Only Divine Son of God. He is unique and solitary, being both fully God and fully Man.
Adam was not both human and God. He is called a son of God, because He was directly created by God, without the cooperation
of humans to conceive a child. But Adam was only a created human being. To say that either Adam and Jesus are both God or
both only human is faulty logic. It takes faith, however, to believe Scripture that teaches that Jesus is "God with us".
If Adam isn't God then neither is Jesus.
Jesus had a human mother Adam didn't.
Also notice in your quotation from Corinthians they are both called man.
From research, one can learn that in these verses (vv24-38), the Greek word 'tou' (with the genitive) means 'belonging to'; though in Luke 3:22,23, the word 'Son' is definitely used. Why the translators chose to add "the son of" is known only to them, though I suspect that in almost all cases there was a clear line of humanity (of 'begetting') which they carried through to the beginning, that of Adam. And the fact that "the son" is shown in italics, indicates that they understood that it wasn't in the original language.
With that aside, the 1 Corinthians chapter 15 reference by the apostle, was to show that though both Adam & Christ were alike in their 'coming' from God, their origins were totally different. Adam was created from the dust of the earth - Christ created into humanity by the Spirit of God ( Luke 1:35). The first was a product of the earth - the second a product from Heaven. True, Jesus was humanly formed & birthed & that was so, for His Coming was to be understood from the Davidic line, fulfilling the prophecies that went before Him & of course, to lay down His Life as a Sacrifice for all.
Then to assert that "Adam is also God", would be false, as there was nothing about Adam's creation to indicate that another god was produced & then fell. But for Jesus, His Coming was from God's Presence & Being - entitling Him to be called the Son of God & also worshipped.
Do you consider yourself a Christian? To be a Christian means you follow Jesus Christ and if you don't believe Jesus is Lord then that is similar to what nonbelievers think. Some even admit who Jesus is, but still stubbornly won't accept Him. It's a spiritual battle. Matthew 7:21
John 14:6 - No one comes to the Father (also God) but through Jesus.
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
John 8:19 "if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
Philippians 2:5 - 2:8 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
2 Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
John 1:3 - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 20:28
Pretty hard to disregard all these Biblical truths about Jesus. He became flesh and died for you. Have you tried praying and asking who Jesus is and to reveal that to you?
Those who deny that Jesus is God have to pervert Scripture in ways you noted. Throughout the history of the church there have been those who deny the divinity of Jesus or His humanity. These ideas have been dealt with repeatedly over the centuries and Scripture refutes these claims and the church regards these claims as grave error. And here it emerges once again in this century. You are right to equate denying Jesus divinity with one who does not believe in Him.
Your opening comments are very interesting.
The things you say of me are exactly what you are doing.
You also didn't address the passage in 1 Cor 15:45, you totally ignored it.
Luke 3:38 Adam is called the son of God. Jesus is compared to him.
He is also the son of God. The two Adams. The first one failed the second one didn't.
Jesus is now at the right hand of God and Jesus has been given all power from God.
Jesus will reign until the last enemy is destroyed and that enemy is death.
Then Jesus gives everything back to God and is subject to him. 1 Cor 15:28
You say I denied Jesus divinity. What do you mean by that? Jesus is at Gods right hand.
He is Gods son. He is in a very divine position.
But is he God? No, he is the son of God. No ware in the scriptures is he called God the Son.
Lets look at some of the scriptures you sent me.
John 14:6 Consider John 5:30, 6:38, 7:16, 14:24,31
His words were his Fathers not his own. The doctrine he spoke wasn't his. He didn't do his own will but his Fathers.
This is why Jesus said I and my Father are one. John 10:30
The Jews accused Jesus of saying he was God. Where did he direct them? Psalm 82:6-7
The scripture called men gods. They were the rulers of Israel. They were Gods representatives.
1 John 5:7 This verse is very interesting. It is not included in a number of other versions.
These are American Standard Version, Bible in Basic English, Easy to Read Version, English Standard Version, Good News Bible,
International Standard Version, Revised Version and World English Version. Why is it not included in these versions?
Jesus was sent and the one sending is greater then the one being sent. John 13:16
Jesus was in the beginning with God in that God new what man was about. Man would need a saviour.
Geneses 3:15 The seed of the woman. Before Abraham was, I Am.
This will be the last time I reply to you on this topic.
I took ample time to show numerous verses that clearly say Jesus is God and you deny it. It sounds like your heart is closed based on your response. That is between you and God. No amount of dialog between us will likely change your mind. So, I will wish you well because you are putting your hope and trust that verses like John 1:1 are wrong. It says Jesus (the Word) is God and you believe Jesus is "not" God. It sounds like you are reading it with your own premise, THEN finding and interpreting scripture to fit your premise, rather than starting with reading scripture first with an blank slate THEN praying for understanding. Every one of your points above are answered by just reading the Bible without any filters or bias.
While I appreciate respectul dialog up to this point, what I don't appreciate is a disingenious comment such as this "you totally ignored it." This is false. I didn't ignore anything. To try to figure out what you accused me of "ignoring" I now scrolled up to a higher comment where you posted a verse to someone else. Of course your same assumption of "ignoring" could be said about you, because you didn't respond to each of the verses like John 1:1 that I actually replied to you, not to someone else like you did.
You also didn't respond to my question to you if you've prayed about this? Have you prayed to know the truth about Jesus and have you felt any confirmation or anything in your heart as a response? I won't characterize you as intentionally ignoring as you did to me, but it's noteworthy that you haven't responded to this important point. God bless.
You're right I didn't respond to John 1:1. I could not respond to everything at on time.
Two many things at one time is sometimes over whelming.
We need to look at one or two passages at a time.
You said I didn't believe John 1:1
That is not true.
I did not believe your interpretation of John 1:1.
That is a big difference.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
You said that these verses say that Jesus is God.
I'm saying that the word of God is instilled in Our Lord Jesus God.
Jesus had his own will but he refused his own will and followed after his Fathers will perfectly.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
In John 6:38 Jesus said he came down from Heaven. What does he mean with that?
The chapter is dealing with the manna which came down from heaven.
The Holy Spirit of God from heaven produced the manna on earth.
The same with Jesus. The Holy Spirit descended on Mary and created the Lord Jesus Christ.
It was the seed of God with the seed of Mary.
You also need to remember Jesus spoke in parables.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
To comment on this word of ignoring which you used first.
You said I was cherry picking and then said I was ignoring the mountain of other verses.
We have limited amount of space.
I'm sorry but I can't deal with everything at one time.
As I said before we only have limited amount of space.
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