Bible Discussion Thread

John the Baptists, was a cousin of Jesus Christ, according to scriptures. John was it who Baptized Jesus in Jordan. John was sent to be the forerunner of Jesus the Christ.

John said that Jesus is the incarnated Word of God, bringing "grace and truth," replacing the law given by Moses, and making God known in the world.

Howbeit, when John was imprisoned, he send his disciples to ask Jesus; if he was the one (Messiah)? The one who it is to: "Save Israel from their sins, and bringing them to God."

Question is: "What prompted John, to inquire if Jesus, was the one? Wasn't John filled with the Spirit to discern Jesus was the sent Messiah? Does Spirit filled prophet of God, know not the operation of the spirit?

First, John the Baptist may not have had any correspondence withno knowledge of Jesus after he baptized Jesus, although he was the forerunner of Jesus. A forerunner is a messenger sent before to give notice of the approach of others. John the Baptist was the messenger announcing Jesus' coming. He would not have to have contact with Jesus.

If John did not have any contact with Jesus, it would have been through the Holy Spirit that John knew ( John 1:29,36). Later on, John told Herod his marriage to his sister-in-law was not lawful ( Mark 6:17-18). That got him put in prison.

What few people realize when studying the Bible is that John the Baptist did not witness any of Jesus' miracles. The Jews expected a messiah that would set them free from the control of the Romans. This was not what Jesus came to do.

John had plenty of time to think while he was in prison. He probably had many doubts. He may have wondered why Christ did not come and deliver him. That's when he finally sent two of his disciples to ask Jesus some questions ( Matthew 11:1-3). Jesus told them to tell John what theyhearand see. "... The blind, lame and deafarehealed,the dead are raised, and the poor hear the good news of God's Kingdom. Happy is he who has no doubts about me." ( Matthew 11:4-6).

I meant to say Jeremiah 51 not Isaiah 51....Need some coffee

Hi Tom but what happened to John the bap. is just prophetic of what is gonna happen to anybody that followes Jesus with ALL their hearts and minds like John ... Rev. 2 : 10...Fear none of the thing you will suffer for behold the devil will cast some of you in PRISON be faithfull unto DEATH and i will give you a Crown of life.

.... Rev. 20 : 4 ...I saw the souls of them that had been BEHEADED for the witness of Christ Jesus and for the WORD of God...And they lived and reigned with Christ for 1000 YRS....

....Precious in the eyes of the lord are the death of his saints...

.....Most all the disciples were killed for the testimony of Christ Jesus..Paul says he was a Prisoner for Christ Jesus...

.....Having the Mind of Christ is a type of BEHEADING in the Spirit.

....We are gonna be BEHEADED to the things of this world... Isaiah 51 : 20 You are my battle ax...with you will i destroy kingdoms and nations...The horse and his rider, the young man and the maid...The farmer and his yoke of oxen...Our minds are gonna be changed , we are gonna put on incorruption and immortality....We are gonna have the very mind of Christ Jesus...They will cast some of you in Prison Fear none the things you will suffer be faithful unto death and i will give you a Crown of life....The things JOHN SUFFERED in his flesh we will also suffer in the Spirit.....Lord be merciful to me a Sinner....Alex

Thanks Alex, for your input. God bless!

Thank you Alex, you said this well. Have a good day.

Hi Tom,

I would like to share my perspective on this. I does seem sort of odd that John the Baptist would send his disciples to Jesus to ask Him those questions. Perhaps John should have known the answer. Was there any doubt there in John's mind? There may have been but we don't know for sure.

I tend to believe there was some doubt in John's mind which caused him to send his disciples to Jesus to ask Him if He was the coming Messiah, or should they expect someone else. Here's why I believe this. I think it had to do with the situation John was in (Imprisoned for preaching the gospel), and his concept of who the Messiah was supposed to be.

The Jews believe two things. First of all, they believe that when Messiah came, He would exercise judgment on the enemies of Israel. And John was out preaching judgment and the coming of Christ and he was put in prison for that. So now John's in prison for telling the truth and preaching the Gospel, and the Roman government still has the Jewish people captive. So John sees no movement there.

Secondly, they also expected that after He freed the Jewish people from the Roman government, that He would establish His kingdom here on the earth. However, John is in prison and the Jews are still suffering under the Roman government. In their mind, the Messiah was supposed to change all that and set up His kingdom now. So I can sort of see and understand the perplexity of John and why he would ask these questions.

Hi Jesse,

Thanks for your input and God bless.

Before I take off, Just want to leave you with this. The word of God declares in Revelation 2:10

King James Version

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

John was cast into prison and we are not told in the word what the conditions and situation in prison were. Howbeit, we later read and understood that "John the Baptists" was beheaded through the instrumentality of Herodias.

Nevertheless, the scripture again tell us in the same Book of Revelation 20:4

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Whatever the case concerning John the Baptists, I reckon he was Spirit filled, and endowed with the knowledge of the Word of God. HIs dilemma could not have been any pressure from the Prince of darkness (Satan) the Devil that he succumbed to.

Let me leave you with this verse from the Book of Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy 29:29

King James Version

29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

God knows why and what John the Baptists, was going through. When we meet him, we will get to know because he'll revealed everything to us. (His children).

Hi Tom.

That is a great question and as several may have said, the scripture doesn't reveal why.

Here's what I find interesting,

We know John was the forerunner preparing the way for the Lord.

He was to bring in what was prophesied by the Prophets.

When he required of Jesus the Lord reminded him a passage from Isaiah, which he also stated when he begin his ministry in

Luke 4:17-21.

I believe the Holyspirit was on John his entire life to fulfill his ministry which was to prepare the way for the Lord.

It's also interesting John was never given a visual description of Jesus to identify him. Just that he would see the spirit descending and remaining on him.

John 1:31-34. And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

And I knew him not: BUT HE THAT SENT ME TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER, THE SAME SAID UNTO ME, UPON WHOM THOU SHALT SEE THE SPIRIT DESCENDING, AND REMAINING ON HIM, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John ministry was unique and was to bring to Israel what was prophesied. And when that was done he said this.

"He must increase, but I must decrease.

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. John 3:30-34."

John was mighty in bringing in our Lord, afterwards he decreased.

Jesus is the only one given the spirit without measure.

Just a thought.

God bless.

Thanks brother Spencer. Wonderful thoughts and scripture references. "He must increase, but I must decrease." Pretty interesting. God richly bless you for your thoughts and input.

Modern Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit but neither modern Christians nor John the Baptist were sinlessly perfect or knew all there was or is to know. We do not know everything and we do go through trials we cannot understand but that does not mean we cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit while enduring the trials and confusions of life.

1 John 2:27

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

The scripture does state the anointing of God, teaches us all things. We can know all things if we abide in the "Anointing." John the Baptists," was an anointed prophet of God, and Spirit filled. He wasn't sinless or perfect, yet he didn't live a life of sin and imperfection. He operated on a different level, and on the level and Spirit of Elijah.

The Anointing teaches us of all things," that's the key and what we as Christians need always remember.

Marke.

Well said. Thank you

All my brothers and sisters in Christ replies were powerful and coming from the Holy Spirit!

[Comment Removed]

Thanks T. Levis

John the Baptist was the 'forerunner". So, he knew far less than the apostles or Paul did after Jesus' death and resurrection. And less than all of the martyrs that came after him. And less than us and Christian believers through the centuries.

Perhaps he thought he was going to be part of Jesus' group of disciples that walked through their lives with Him. John had a difficult calling from the start of his public ministry. He lived in the wilderness, fending for himself with what the wilderness provided as far as food and shelter. Certainly, his parents did not live in the wilderness with him. So, my best guess is that the Holy Spirit led John into the wilderness (just as He did Jesus).

Was John tempted by Satan, too, in that place? Did he resist the temptations like Jesus did? Did he have companionship in the wilderness? How long did he live in the wilderness? What did God tell him in the wilderness as he began the ministry he was called to do? How well did he know Jesus growing up and as an adult? Did he have a copy of the Scriptures with him in the wilderness to study since he was from the priestly lineage? Did he have any knowledge from God about how he would die while in the wilderness?

John was like a flame/torch. He was on fire for the LORD God. He also pursued his calling with hot vigor and without hesitancy. he was willing to spend and be spent for the LORD. His ministry was short lived, but it burned hot the whole time, He spoke to the religious leaders in a fiery way, denouncing their hypocrisy. He spoke strongly to those who came to the river to see what he was all about, urging them to repent o their sins and be baptized, for the kingdom was at hand. (It is said that the place where John was baptizing was the same place in the Jordan where the Israelites crossed, by miracle, into the land of promise after the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness). John had a sense of urgency and definitely knew his purpose.

Are we on fire?

Awesome perspective & questions "Gigi"

The HOLY Spirit just encouraged me tremendously & in multiple ways, reading your response!!!

Thank You LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!

Hello Tom,

Like others who have responded, I think that John was in a state of doubt. Perhaps he was depressed which led to doubt and a sense of hopelessness, knowing he faced death by being beheaded. He may have wondered if he had "gotten it right" concerning Jesus. he needed encouragement. Being a prophet, he was satisfied with Jesus' reply because Jesus replied with prophecy. "the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are healed, the dead are raised up and, the poor have the gospel preached to them. Blessed is he who is not offended because of me." (Is.29:18, Ps 22:26, Is. 66:1) are referenced for this reply from Jesus. John knew OT Scripture and he knew what Jesus was referring to. This report strengthened Joh in faith and in fortitude to face his beheading.

As stated, Elijah had a similar experience of doubt, as did the apostles (see Thomas).

This account causes me to know that, should I face a similar time of doubt and/or persecution, the Holy Spirit will bring to mind Scripture to build up my faith and strengthen me, whether in my mind, or by reading the Word, or by the words brought to me by a fellow believer. Jesus does not abandon us when we doubt. He does not leave us unprotected, though he may allow doubt. He is near the brokenhearted. He is our sure help in times of trouble. He is the Resurrection and the Life. So, whether we live or die, we live to Him, our Savior. "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." ( John 6:68-69)

Thanks for your response and input. God richly bless you!

Hey Tom,

This is my understanding; All Israel was looking for the Messiah when He first came to deliver Israel from all oppressors and lead them into a new golden age. We see this as the question the disciples asked Jesus in Matthew 24:3. Jesus' purpose of His first coming was hidden from them, even the Apostles and John, Luke 18:31-34. They even asked Jesus right before He ascended, if He was going to set up the kingdom then, Acts 1:6.

We see how distraught all were when Jesus was crucified and they did not even believe Mary when she told them He had resurrected, Mark 16:10-14. They were confused and had doubts because they were looking for Him to set up the kingdom then. John probably had these same thoughts when he saw what Jesus was doing because it didn't look like Jesus was moving to deliver the people from the Roman rule and set up the kingdom.

No one could know, because Satan could not know this part of God's plan, it was still a mystery.

Just my understanding

God bless,

RLW

Maybe John knew but he sent his disciples to Jesus because he wanted them to know , there is a theory that some of John's disciples became followers of Jesus and that maybe even some of Jesus apostles started out as John's disciples . John wanted his disciples to follow Jesus after his death , I'm sure he already knew he was to be executed , so he sent his disciples to Jesus .

Hi Tom. This is a very short account in Matthew 11:1-6 which has brought up different views of what had taken place in the prison. I feel that more information would have given more light on the matter to be able to make a proper judgement.

One view is that it was John's disciples that were in doubt of Jesus, why Jesus had more disciples than John, or maybe doing a work inconsistent with that of the expected Messiah. So John wanted them to go out for themselves & learn & be convinced.

However, in my reading of the passage, I can't help but think that it was actually John himself who began having doubts, given his miserable position & condition in prison. Why wouldn't Jesus come to him, perform a miracle to secure his release, rather than spending so much time with the people, could be a question on his mind. Or, maybe over such a long period, John was being persuaded while in prison to entertain unnatural questions in his mind - sometimes a lengthy period of confinement, with various depravations & abuse, might cause one to have doubts & fears. We just don't have enough information to know exactly what John was thinking or feeling & how the evil one might have been having his way with him.

As to the prophets, they spoke as the Spirit of the Lord directed them, but as you wrote, that John was "filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb". Can such an one entertain doubts & fears? Maybe for a man under harsh conditions, there would have been a spiritual conflict going on & he needed a confirmation from witnesses to strengthen his spirit & his resolve. To all this I can't be certain and I hope you can get other views on this difficult passage.

Thanks a bunch Chris.

I understand the prison conditions among other things could have triggered some doubts in John's mind, as was the case of Prophet Elijah.

Elijah, was fleeing the wrath of the evil King & Queen, who sought his life for humiliating and killing those false prophets of baal. He claimed he was the only one who feared God; but God revealed otherwise.

I believe God, could have minister to John, through words of wisdom; words of knowledge, words of revelation, an angel or even through a vision while he John was imprisoned.

This would have been consistent with the Holy Spirit fullness, removing every doubt about who Jesus was and what his mission was all about.

I reckon the secret things does belong to God, and that he revealed otherwise to us is ours as declared in the book of Deuteronomy.

Someday we will know. Thanks again brother Chris. Always enjoy your take. God bless.

Indeed brother; your's was a great example from Elijah's mental turmoil. As brother Fred has shared as well, as strong as we might feel in spirit, the weakness of our flesh is ever ready to surface. How we deal with that will either be our victory or perpetual grief & defeat.

Fred, Chris & Tom,

While reading your comments, I'm reminded of Saul. 1Samuel 10:1-12, 1Samuel 10:26, 1Samuel 11:6, even 1Samuel 19:19-24,

1Samuel 18:12

I guess that's where "we work out our own Salvation with fear & trembling" comes in. Philippians 2:2, Paul writing these also while in bonds Philippians 1, Philippians 4:23,

Even, Solomon 1Kings 11:9,

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. How often I am reminded of this condition within myself. These moments in the trials that we must all face at one time or another. Again, reminded of Christ in the garden sweating droplets of blood. The power that has been given to you who believe, is the same power that will get us through to the end! While Jesus experiences the pressures in the flesh, we see Him go unto a desert place, upon hearing Johns death. Once again reminded that even though Jesus is God, He is in the flesh suffering and feeling the same trials as us. This moment the same as when Lazarus died! Sharing our griefs, understanding all our pains, failures, this is why Jesus came! There is none like Him. None! Jesus the savior of the world.