Bible Discussion Thread

What "Law" is this passage talking about and what everybody is talking about? And who gave me this "Law" that I was under or since my birth. Only law I know about is laws in America? Do I still have to keep the laws in America cause Christ died?

Paul writes Romans 13 to say basically two things: First, just because the Roman Empire, and most governments are corrupt, doesn't mean that all government in principle is bad. And secondly, he infers that while people should hold the Roman Empire in contempt, and resist it, they should not do so by breaking the law.

Yes! But at the same time the law of God is supreme in that all laws comes from the Bible anyway. It's just that some of our laws today has been modified or are being redefine.

Thanks Chris for your perspective, but you said: From here on, Paul teaches what the Galatians should be embracing, i.e. Justification by Faith alone & nothing else. Could you explain the "Faith alone and nothing else" perhaps? I ask cause other scriptures go against that - James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I can have faith - faith in the unseen, such as Christ or God, and faith that my sins will be forgiven through Christ as he is the advocate, but I should still adhere to the commandments (works) such as worshipping other gods before God, not killing, not stealing, not bearing false witness, and I thought keeping the sabbath as in going to church on Sunday?

What makes me a "Gentile" by the way? If I am a Gentile and not under a law and just have faith, I should be able to go out here and kill and rob and commit fornication thus all manner of wickedness with no problem......but I do have faith though. Perhaps Paul is talking about distinctions in the over law itself cause doing none of any law, man or Gods, just does not seem accurate.

Lastly, You use the word Jewish a few times but when I put this word in the search on this website, I only find it one time: Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. A fable is a make believe thing. I'm not saying a Jew is make believe as I have found "Jew" is short for Judah and Judah is the head tribe of the lost tribes of Israel. It's confusing, cause you say "Jewish convert" and to be Jewish is a race of people as said in the media but how can I convert to be Jewish? By changing my race? I'm just curious on all of this and the new testament and will continue to study.

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If the Spirit speaks to one to keep Sabbath as a rest day, then to that person they should abide - but to another, the Sabbath was not given to Gentiles & any day can be for rest & also for worship ( Romans 14:5,6 & the whole chapter).

Gentile? If you have no Jewish heritage, then you fall under the Gentile category. If the Gentile has not received the Law, he is a law unto himself ( Romans 2:14,15). Of course, all peoples are under governmental law, unless they're hidden away from society. But for both the Jewish Christian & Gentile Christian, the old Law has no more application or binding, for we are now subject to the Law of the Spirit. I don't believe that anyone with the Holy Spirit within them would ever be led to murder, commit fornication, & other sins. If a believer does sin, then he's going against the Spirit's ministry & appealing to his flesh (& this is why Paul spoke of crucifying the flesh ( Galatians 5:24,25)).

Jew? When I wrote, 'Jewish convert', I meant that such a person still retains his Jewish heritage/bloodline, but has relinquished all that kept him bound to his faith (Judaism), finding forgiveness of sins, new life & liberty through the promised Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Jews today still await the Messiah, but Jesus came, but they refused Him & crucified Him ( John 1:10-14). But the day will come when they will acknowledge Jesus ( Zechariah 12:10,11; Revelation 1:7,8). People have in the past become Jewish proselytes, embracing Judaism, its Laws & Practises ( Exodus 12:48,49; Acts 2:10; Acts 6:5; Acts 13:43). I hope that I've covered all your questions; if you have other questions feel free to start a new thread. Blessings.

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(One believes in something that cannot be seen or produced - the other is working at something that is tangible - they cannot be mixed together). The Apostle Paul also wrote of this in Romans 11:6 (speaking of the "election of grace"): "if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." God's Grace if freely given as a Gift, as is Faith to believe ( Ephesians 2:8,9). If works are added then it's no longer Grace (& Faith), but all of works. So James is saying that true Faith produces good works - NOT Faith plus Good Works produces true Faith.

You write of obeying the commandments. This is another long subject, but I'll be brief. If a believer is relying of Christ's Sacrifice & obedience to the Law to attain salvation, then again, the Sacrifice is made of no effect. Galatians 5:3,4, "For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Here we have those who were "entangling themselves with the yoke of bondage" by wanting the liberty that Christ obtained for them & also placing themselves under the Law (which brought bondage & death). It's one thing to consider the Law (the 10 Commandments) in noting God's Rules to Israel for their relationship to God & to others, but if we determine that we must obey them, to be saved or acceptable to God, then we've "fallen from grace". So Sabbath for example, which is a Day of Rest to Israel, not a worship day per se, becomes critical to some Christians to observe, if not, then we would need to take a long look at this matter of Law & Grace. But God has given us His Spirit, whereby we obey all Christ's Commandments from the heart & not by the letter; see Romans 8:1-4. (cont'd)

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Thanks for your questions, Curious-L. You quoted James 2:17,24,26 about Faith & Works. This chapter has been at the core of disputes between some Churches, where one (particularly the RC Church) maintains that James says that Faith plus Works is necessary for salvation, & the other, that only Faith is necessary. I realize that it may not appear clear in the reading of James but if we take it from James 2:14, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?", we can learn what James is saying.

He is writing about what real Faith is. He gives an example in vv 15-17 of a Christian, with this Faith, yet only gives a destitute brother or sister only some nice words of comfort, instead of doing something to relieve their poverty. James is saying that this is not genuine faith - it's an academic faith (i.e. in the head, theoretical), & not evident in practise. Can this be the Faith of the Bible? James goes on to write in verse 16, that he would 'shew (or, prove) his faith by his works'. So, we see James saying that when real Faith is being exercised, it shows itself in practical ways - if Faith fails to do that, then it's a false faith.

Back to the Churches which hold to 'Salvation is by Faith & Works'. Here, it is believed that Salvation is given when both Faith in Christ's Work at the Cross & the performance of good works, will guarantee salvation. If this were the case, then it means that Jesus' Sacrifice was insufficient to give the sinner salvation, but our good works (i.e. our efforts) are also needed to ensure our salvation. So here is a situation of: is Christ's Sacrifice really sufficient? Do we need to assist in His salvation with our contributions? Should we even speak of having Faith if Works are added, since the essential meanings of Faith & Works oppose each other? (cont'd)

Dear curious in simple words the story goes like this:

God gave His Law to Moeses who gave that law to Israeletes to obey it. That law which is the one that is mentioned in Paul's letter to Galatians is what we call the Old Testament.

Jesus Chist when came to earth cancelled that law which had provisions of animal sacrifices in Solomon's temple and many other things.

Instead Jesus established what we call the New testament. Now if you want to find out what the Old and New Testaments are about you have to study those things, they can't be explained in a few lines of words.

Soon the ancient church faced a problem. Jews that believed to Jesus tried to mix the old traditions and practises of the Old Testament with the new teachings that Jesus Christ tought. So the church of Galatia faced a problem of that kind when some gentile christians drifted towards those false teachings by some Jews who traveled there and Paul wrote a letter to solve the problem that was creared there.

That letter, epistle, is a good example of the differences between the two Testaments but you have to do a lot of other reading to understand it.

Welcome to Jesus Christ.

Hello. Ty for the condensed sum up as it thoroughly helps. You said: Jesus Christ, when came to earth, cancelled that law which had provisions of animal sacrifices in Solomon's temple and many other things. Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Guess you can't get no newer "New Testament" than Revelations. Thanks for the clarity. :)

Dear curious as i wrore to you before it is impossible to write about all those things in a post. I would suggest that you join a Christian segregation to get them taught, preferably

reborn Christians.Finally about your question about commandments you should know that there are commandments in the New Testament as well. Example given Love your enemy, Don't judge your brother, Do not separate your wife/husband, Do not lie, and generally speaking do not sin, and what is considered a sin by God is described in the Gospel.

You could start reading the Gospel from the begining, the Gospel of Matthew and progress trying to solve your questions but still i think you will need help from people that have some knowledge. May God show you the way. God bless you.

Dear Curious,

Those in the States have a huge blessing of having the right to vote for those who represent them. So, as Mishael says, do not

leave it to the other guys who vote. Learn for yourself what is happening and discover the policies and stands

of those running for offices hold to, not just what they say they stand for. Find out about their records to see if these and what

they say agree. In my 47 years of voting, I have never seen as fast of a deterioration of our economy, social stability,

criminal behavior in our streets and by those in powerful positions as I have seen in the past 2 years. It is very concerning. We

should care! We should pray! We should exercise the precious freedoms and rights we have as citizens as long as we have

them. It is a shame not to!



God could have easily had any of us be born in another country than here.

But those of us born in here are here because God chose that for us and expects us to make full use of the rights, privileges,

and liberty this county affords its citizens. By making use of these things we have power to turn the tide of our nation, to be a

restrainer of evil in our country and communities, contribute to the good of our country which in turn has historically provided so

much good to other countries and their peoples, much more so than ANY other country in the world for generations.

Even if the Jesus should come back sooner than later, we should not cower or remove ourselves from the responsibilities of

citizenship in this country waiting for Him. God has given such citizens a unique opportunity to self-rule that most of the world

does not have.

Other systems are not the answer for us. These are the systems that will usher in the antichrist and his one world

government. So I pray that a multitude of us in these States to be wise in how they hold their citizenship.

Hebrews 13:17

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Comment: if you watch election results, it's obvious that half the population is voting for the half that did not vote. Rain or shine, we need to give voting more of our priority.

Make a "cheat sheet", so we don't vote for the other party. It happens. Last one I voted in, the "vote party" option was gone. It's necessary to have the names of the person representing your party of choice, on the issues.

Don't leave it at home on Election Day. :D put in your wallet.

Under Law (Mosaic, Levitical, etc) we lived by works. Salvation could only be obtained by works. This was only a temporary solution until Christ Jesus came to die for our sins so that we're freed from law by Salvation; nei, we are saved by Grace through Faith in Christ's finished work at Calvary. Therefore, Spiritual law is nothing more but written on the hearts of those born again.

What was the situational context of Galatians 3 (most of Paul's letter to Galatia)?

Galatia heard the Gospel of Grace (not works of the Law) by either Paul or another early witness that was in Paul's fellowship. Judaizers (which aren't much different from modern Messianics) came to Galatia and told them that the Grace of God wasn't enough. They tried to pervert the Galatian church's understanding of Grace and asked they go back under the law (works of physical circumcision, feast days, sabbatical law, etc). Everything Judaizers or Messianics teach is in contrary to the victory Christ Jesus gave us by shedding His Blood so that we may have Grace freely without works.

None of the context has to do with secular laws by civilization. Obviously, we live in this world and cannot rebel against civil laws of the land. This chapter has nothing to do with that. Reach Galatians back from chapter 1 for better understanding.

Hmmm, a bit more confused as took some of your advise to go to Galatians 1, but came back in this chapter to find this verse 3:23 But before faith came (faith is Christ from my understanding), we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Hello Curious-L. Brother Daniel has correctly shared with you what was going on amongst the Churches in Galatia (in North & South Galatia): that Judaizers had infiltrated the Churches ( Galatians 1:6-9). And these Judaizers, as he has explained, were corrupting the true Gospel of Jesus by demanding observance of the old Laws & its practises.

Then from Galatians 1:11 to 2:21, Paul writes on aspects of his authority to share what he did over & above what these false teachers were claiming: Paul's authority given by Revelation, by the Jerusalem Church's approval, & by his rebuking of Peter.

And from chapter 3, I think is where your confusion arises. From here on, Paul teaches what the Galatians should be embracing, i.e. Justification by Faith alone & nothing else. In the Church, there would have been both converted Jews & Gentiles worshipping together. Since both were being taught by these Judaizers about adherence to the Law as well as Faith, to the Jewish convert these words in chapters 3 & 4, would have much meaning & they would be in need of more correcting.

So how does this apply to you & me? Paul is not stating that the Gentiles (including you & me) were ever under the Law, as the new Jewish believers once were, but was emphasizing that since those who were under the Law (i.e. these new Jewish believers) and those Gentiles who were being taught to also embrace the Law, are affected by the false teachers, all should be warned that they don't syncretize the two (i.e. uniting or mixing together Law & free Grace through Faith) - they cannot be mixed together - they're like oil & water. So, Curious-L, you & I were never under the Law, but we're to be careful not to adhere to the Law as well to gain salvation, to which Faith speaks against. The Law was given only to show the Jew their sin & incapability to keep it perfectly & be righteous before God - it was given to ultimately "bring them to Christ, that we (all - Jew & Gentile) might be justified by Faith."

Wwll stated brother Chris!

God bless you.

Amen brother Chris & neighbor Curious!

Legalism too is something that borders into this area that Paul addresses as a whole in the books of Galatians. Legalism was hard to shake from the Jews during that time. The "jew-christians (early messianics/Judaizers)," Pharisees, Sadducees and so on all lived under the bondage of the laws. They put others under the bondage of faith by works the same which never saved anyone after Christ shed His Blood for our sins to have Grace by means of Salvation.

To encourage you all neighbors, I lived in this bondage growing up. I was raised roman catholic and was very involved until I was 19-years old. I was even told by a cardinal back then that our lives in service to God are only of good deeds (which he referred moreso of works). They would twist the book of James to no end. James mentions works but the works that James speaks of is the fruit of the Spirit of the born again; not works by means of Salvation. Anyway, I left the catholic church after a divide toward atheism. Long story short, I nearly died when I was 22-years old and the only person willing to help me in the hospital that time was a born again Christian. They shared with me the verses in the Bible (which I'd never read back then) how to be saved. It took a lot of resistance but God broke through in October 3rd, 2010. My encouragement to you all is that we ought to praise Christ Jesus for dying for our sins, giving up His free Grace, washing us from our sins, His mercy, His Holy Spirit, His Holy Word (KJV in English in my case) and the great promises He gives to the elect including Eternal Life after this. Amen!

God bless you both and I'll see you someday when I lay my burdens down. Amen!

Hi , Curious . If your nature is as your name , then you should read the Old Testament as well as the New . All your questions will be answered if you read the Old as well as the New . Enjoy and God bless your efforts .

Hello, well, I'm always told the Old Testament is old and it is done away with cause we in the new and we under a new way. I guess that is not right, but they say this in church I started going too is why. This why I skipped to the New Testament, plus my pastor only teaches from the new anyway, I guess that is not right as well.....Shhh, smh.

The Old Testament is what Jesus was brought up on and believed in , he quotes is so many times and he is there , figuratively , in every single book of the Old Testament . A decent understanding of the Old sheds enormous light on the New . Give it a go , I promise you will love it .