Bible Discussion Thread

The "crap hits the fan" so to speak. The end of chapter six shows how his wife and whoever the "wise men" were (unless they were one and the same as his friends mentioned the previous day) changing their tune. His own downfall was now predicted just 24 hours later; if it was indeed of the Jews that had started to prevail.

Esther lets out all the stops here in this clever setup. There was no way of knowing that the king would just happen to read about Mordecai's unsung hero status in catching the two conspirators some time ago written in the records after he spent a sleepless night. Esther stated point blank what Haman had decreed against Mordecai and it should be noted that she stated if it was just "bondmen and bondwomen" that was determined for her people she would have held her tongue. Then when asked who had done such a thing it was stated that this "adversary and enemy is this wicked Haman".

The king probably had forgotten at least the logic of how he signed the edict; due to the seeming righteous indignation of Haman justifying such a document because of Mordecai's disrespect. Emotions got the best of the king once again and God's purposes were to come to pass; when Haman was to be hung on the gallows he prepared for Mordecai. More divine justice was to soon follow in the rest of the book.

As to Esther; this deck of cards dealt to her was MASTERFULLY played; in accordance with prudence and wisdom. And the name of God isn't mentioned anywhere in the book! Quite remarkable.

Hi Richard , I have always thought that Vashti represents the old covenant and Esther the new , Esther Ch 1 V 9-22 and Ch 4 V 10-17 . Vashti broke the law of her culture and wasn't forgiven , in the same way that there was no forgiveness in the law given to Moses and Esther broke the law but was forgiven as we are forgiven in Christ . A bit like how Saul represents the law of Moses (no forgiveness) and David represents the new covenant of forgiveness in Christ . I hope I explained that ok .

In addition; I would say that only the covenant of grace through the blood atonement of Christ was able to supercede that of the old laws and statutes. As far as any other covenants; i.e. marriage and national promises it is clear that they are for a lifetime; or eternal based on what God ordained; but also coming at the voluntary response of the people such as at Mt. Sinai and whenever the Lord spoke through kings and prophets. There are some covenants involving other nations that Israel made (such as the Gibeonites) that were to be maintained. This principal as far as I read scripture also applies for other vows made by man as well invoking the name of God.

In general; I am trying to read what a passage says; connect it to other scriptures; then study how it ties into God's character with covenants; etc. We can see many evidences of grace even in the O.T.; and Christ is the fulfillment of the law; etc. I don't want to ignore the fact that we are under grace now; and not under the law; but also don't want to myopically apply the principles in Romans beyond where it was originally intended.

Hope that helps..Rich P (Agape)

I was just pointing out what it actually says in the Bible . If you read the verses I quoted , Vashti broke the law and was not forgiven and banished from her husband's presence , Esther broke the law , was forgiven and saved her people , sounds familiar ?

I am not sure how you say Esther "broke the law" unless you are referring to her walking into the inner court. This was a necessary sacrifice of her life if necessary to save her people.

As to Vashti; I am not sure what to say as to your concept. I am looking as I have in much of scripture to the covenant of marriage; and its sanctity; which crosses over dispensations and was instituted by God in the garden. So I was looking at a societal attitude not focusing on law and grace. I can't say how much emphasis should be placed on finding evidences of the old law and grace; hopefully it is not at the expense of the coherency of the whole word of God. On one hand; Christ did say that not "one jot nor tittle" shall be changed as long as heaven and earth exist as to God's law ( Matthew 5:17-20). Of course no one is saved by the law and we all have fallen short. Sometimes though; I think there is too much emphasis on that; and not enough of our obedience to general admonitions which we CAN follow; but only when we are led by the Spirit; or in O.T. times truly saved. In other words; general apostasy causes our minds to darken; and for our souls to desensitize to the promptings of the Spirit. We are led astray; then increase in sin because we don't fear God; nor trust His words about our sin NATURE; how we as sheep are prone to stray. Just ranting a bit here...

My other point; as stated previously is that God isn't mentioned nor does it have to be in order to get the idea of the "noble woman" (as illustrated in Proverbs 31; for instance). Sometimes; I think people tend to have a "religious" mindset at the expense of knowing God (i.e. they know a lot of His doctrines but not His ways). I am drilling home the everlasting principle of His covenants in scripture; as it took me only until recently to discover how much is in the Word related to that.