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Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 187544
There's a new birth at conversion for those who trust in Christ. This is defined in baptism.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Hebrews 9:27.
There is in scripture what is called the 2nd death. This has been taken care of for those who trust Christ.
John 11:25-26. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
AND WHOSOEVER LIVETH AND BELIEVETH IN ME SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?
One of many verses on the 2nd death.
Revelation 20:13-14. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
What you're teaching here seems to be Universalism which is considered heretical teaching by any reputable Christian. Everyone certainly does not go to heaven. The Bible is crystal clear about this subject. God is absolutely forgiving (you're right about that- in a way); but only to those that seek forgiveness and salvation through the blood of Jesus. If everyone were forgiven by God then Jesus' death served no purpose at all. But Jesus took our "rap sheet" of sins and in return we get to take His resum of righteousness before God; ONLY if we repent and trust in Jesus. I hope you'll search the Scriptures and see there isn't a single verse in the Bible that validates Universalism (unless a verse is taken out of context).
Moses murdered an Egyptian guard, of which he never felt remorse for, nor was he arrested by Pharaoh upon his return to free Israel. Is Moses not going to heaven? Then why is Jesus with Moses in the garden? Why would Jesus associate with murderers?
Did Peter spoil his chance to get into heaven by denying Christ? No, Peter was made the head of the church!!! If you read the gospels with an unbiased mind, you might come to the conclusion that Christ's apostles would all be worthy of death. Jesus picked flawed men over perfect men because flawed men provided us with teachable and learning moments.
Did Judas, prior to hanging himself, absolve himself on earth as he wept, and confessed his sins to God? YES.
Why did Christ say to the thief crucified next to him, who spent a lifetime sinning and harming others, that they would be together in paradise!!! Christ read the thieves heart, and immediately accepted him in heaven. How can our salvation be much different?
1 John 3:15 Has two parts to it: 1) if you hate your brother, you are a murder, and 2) no murderer is in heaven. The second part, there are no murderers in heaven because everyone is RESURRECTED. What seems like a threats are really a future tense, every scripture review reflects that, otherwise, it doesn't make sense. They, in that state of resurrection, can't possibly sin.
At the Great White throne, we all have a chance to confess and make it in. Who will tell God, "no, forget you, I'll go my own way down to hell"? Will God say the demons on earth fooled you, made you to err, now you're gonna pay"? Haven't we paid enough? Does my soul have to pay for never ever asking to be born into this satanically driven world? I don't want to be here, living in sin, but that's what I'm programmed to do. Everyone is worthy of eternal death, but the love of God, and Jesus' sacrifice saves us. Heavens gate to Jesus is narrow, but miles wide for us.
Also, I should mention I do not believe in eternal conscious torment. I believe in Conditional Immortality. The Bible teaches Conditional Immortality very thoroughly. The Bible teaches both that we are MORTAL, and that the ONLY way to live forever is by trusting in Jesus.
Plenty of verses describe Annihilationism (Conditionalism). Malachi Chapter 4 sums it up best. It says those that will die in their sins will be burnt up and "left neither root nor branch". It goes on to say they will be "ashes under the soles of your feet".
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not PERISH, but have everlasting life."
You're using Moses and the thief on the cross as an example that everyone will go to God's Kingdom?? The thief went to be with Jesus because He both witnessed and believed in Jesus. He literally called Jesus Lord. Moses is with the Lord because God made him His servant and he went on to be an excellent servant.
My friend, I'm sorry but Universalism is just extremely ignorant and it's not just a heresy, but a damnable heresy.
If everyone went to heaven, then Hell (Sheol) wouldn't exist. The Lake of Fire wouldn't exist. The Bible very clearly talks about people going to both Hell, and the Lake of Fire. You really need to get away from false teachers and study your Bible more.
The gospel is for all, but God doesn't give rewards to those who hate and reject Him as you assume. Jesus even predicted this exact scenario of someone assuming they were entitled to deserve heaven. On this contrary this is what Jesus said about that: Matthew 7:21. I believe Jesus's truth over man's falsehoods. The self-entitled who act deserving and like to shortcut and distort God's word may God have mercy on their soul: Revelation 22:19. "...God shall take away his part out of the book of life." This is very serious stuff. God is a fair judge.
It sounds like someone thinks you believe 100% of everyone will go to heaven- is that actually what you believe? If so, how did you come to this conclusion and what was your greatest influence in arriving at that conclusion?
In my years of Bible study and I've never come across a verse appearing to supporting that, but have found many supporting the opposite. I try to pray for wisdom and understanding when I read- do you practice that do you feel that God has confirmed anything in your heart about the info you are posting publically here?
I'm not 100% sure that is what you believe, but if it is, I would look closely at scripture for the truth. Scripture doesn't require any creative interpretion, but just to read literally.
Matthew 7:13-14 - says "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Do you believe this verse that "few find it"? To me, "few" doesn't mean "all." What does "few" mean to you?
Matthew 10:28 - this says to "fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
do you agree that we should fear God, or fear that He could destroy our soul and body in hell?
1 John 1:9. This says "If..." which is a conditional statement meaning that if we do something, this will be the result. Do you believe this verse is truth? If not, what part of it do you not believe?
John 15:10 is another conditional statement "If ye keep my commandments..." - do you agree?
Do you think this means, if you don't keep the commandments, that's fine too and won't change the outcome? Do you think it's possible the Bible would say something like that and not mean it?
Thank you for helping explain your religious beliefs.
Your reply didn't really clarify your view or where it originates from, but I noticed you didn't cite any scriptures in your explanation, like Matt 7:13. Maybe you have an ideal or value you hold higher above the Bible that you aspire to and I wonder where it comes from. You called this deeper in the tunnel, but this metaphor to most Christians would mean deeper study of the truth God's Word, not another ideology to satisfy itching ears. 2 Timothy 4:3.
The Bible is black and white that hell exists and there's a threat of most people going there as it says in John 3:16-18. Jesus lovingly died for our sins to pay the debt if we humble ourselves and follow Him, which includes us turning from our evil ways. This is where satan loves to deceive as he will convince some Christians to cherrypick certain scriptures and throw out others, making their own brew that satisfies their desires.
I'm not sure if you believe in satan or not, if he tricks people like it says in 1 Peter 5:8, Matthew 26:41. But when satan convinces people he doesn't exist or that its fine to sin, because everyone is "saved anyway", then that has his signature all over it. Such ideas are bathed in his deceit which usually starts from a little concession, then another one to build on that, on and on, until someone doesn't believe scripture like John 14:15- that maybe they think they don't have to be obedient whatsoever, despite John 3:16-18
Have you prayed and asked God if your "deeper tunnel" is the truth?
Hi Roman thanks for sharing that verse, but this verse doesn't support your belief about hell not existing or no one going there. Do you have any more you feel actually supports your belief?
1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
This says those in Christ shall be made alive. Most people aren't "in Christ" and reject Him. Why would God welcome people who reject and hate Him into heaven a place He prepared only for those who love and follow Him? Hitler for example wasn't a Christ follower and wasn't in Christ. Judas was a follower, but betrayed and rejected Christ so he wasn't in Christ either. Most people aren't, as the Bible says. Do you believe that?
The fact is most of the Bible is warnings about who we will follow: we will follow Christ or will we follow satan (the world)? Parable after parable Jesus talked about warning us repeatedly. The whole gospel is am opportunity to be saved from our sins, which most reject, but don't have to. God gave us freewill to choose.
Did you read the whole chapter of the verse you shared 1 Corinthians 15?
Look at verse 2: another "if..." conditional statement. If you "keep in memory" and have not believed in vain.
verses 12-17 talks about false teachings, how people like to make up stuff which misses the whole purpose of the gospel.
verse 19 "If in this life only we have hope in Christ."
Keyword "hope". We have hope in Him, and hope for eternal life. We haven't been judged yet. This is why Christ gives us hope. Most do not have hope and will go to hell. This should deeply concern people. Jesus warned us over and over about this. So many verses, so many parables.
verse 25- all enemies will be under his feet. If someone only cherry picks the one verse 22 and ignores this one may be tempted to draw the false conclusion that all are in Christ, but this verse only 3 verses later makes it clear that no, not 100% of everyone is "in Christ" but enemies
What's the difference, you'll believe what you want to believe. I gave you enough facts to reverse your stance, you are free to think and defend whatever your heart desires. Whatever I say you will disagree with; your mind is made up, the nuance of your tone says it all. I don't buy your take on God destroying His creations, void the 3 evil spirits. God is a loving God that isn't like men; His ways are not our ways. Maybe God will do you like that for thinking you can dictate who is worthy of heaven, and who is not. You didn't catch the scriptures that threaten salvation after the fact, which is not possible, like water being dry. That is the point.
Read at face value, the salvation threats from God make absolutely no sense. You don't think God uses His own propaganda to frighten souls using the premise that the wages of sin are death? 1 John 3:15, and others the like, states that no murderers are in heaven because it is impossible for those in heaven to commit murder by virtue of resurrection. It sounds like you don't want to open the prisons, like the gift is all yours, and that of the chosen (we are all chosen), because you say so, because they are your lessors. Discounting the ability of Christ to blanket humanity with the promise of everlasting life is not yours to propagate. I have offered you a grand vision, you've given me more of this world.
It seems you made a few false assumptions, which I can cite as a specific example, but otherwise, I didn't understand what you wrote.
You: "for thinking you can dictate who is worthy of heaven"
Truth: God is the judge and chooses who goes to heaven or hell. I read what the Bible says and choose to believe God's word. Why would you assume "I" dictate who is worthy of heaven? It seems like quite a stretch to paint me as a bad guy for simply believing God's Word if that is your intent.
Maybe you feel upset that a good God has rules of right and wrong and that people who violate God's rules are "wrong" and subject to punishment. God loves people enough to give them all freewill and a fair and equal opportunity to follow Him. Those who reject Him and follow satan will not spend eternity with God. Some people reject God in the most hateful, vile, satanic way and it sounds like you think you'll be hanging out with them in heaven. That's not what the Bible says.
"I have offered you a grand vision" - that doesn't sound like your belief comes from the Bible, but some other ideology or religion which most don't believe. I don't believe it, because the Bible is clear what it says like Matthew 10:28 and it's not a joke. You aren't entitled to salvation. We all are deserving of the opposite. We aren't "good", we are sinful beings deserving death. Sin is like slapping God in the face. It's a big deal. Thanks to Jesus dying for our sins we have the opportunity to follow Him and for eternal life in heaven. God bless.
Look deeper in the tunnel. There are many layers of meaning to dissect, as above. What you believe in is the literal division of souls, anti-love, caretaker view, which is limited to the traits God gave you. So, I will correct the record. You want to enforce strict rules you've personally kept for a long time, like virgin oil. Then, who needs Jesus when Jesus forgot about the lost sheep, the spiritually downtrodden? God died for All of us, saint and sinner.
The Bible teachings are geared to groom a solid, moral citizen; benefiting mankind. This is not a race of the less sinless to the finish line because some are born in a Christian nation, and not a mud hut in Zimbabwe. Christianity proves an unfair advantage for the white man.
I don't murder people because of my loving belief in God, but because it is against the law and not my nature. I was just lucky not to be born a felon, a high degree thief, or a Vietnam Vet with no arms or legs, picketing outside Heavens Gate, drinking coolaid.
Your ledger forgets about God's great compassion for us. I want a reformed Stalin, Hitler, Putin, Bush, Cheny, Rumsfeld, Kissenger, Obama, Clinton, in heaven. I want the insane, the high functioning criminals, the incarcerated and lost souls to enter heaven. Without these people, prophesy could never be fulfilled.
If God destroyed His creations, He is also destroying the potential.
If someone was about to be rejected by God, and that person could reverse the decision by asking God questions, they would be: Who made who? Secondary questions: You regretted making man, which is on par with making a mistake. I see you have David in heaven, did you know what he did to Uriah? Why were you on anti-Christ's side, furbishing the sword you put in his hand, and delighted in his devices of indignation, only to turn on him? Why did you blame anti-christ for doing your will, destroying Babylon? God says: Welcome my son, welcome to heaven.
Ben: Does Christ blood COVER only SOME or does it COVER ALL.
Psalms 22:27 And all the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
There are going to remember when they are resurrected back to their flesh and judged by Christ and his ELECT.
Isaiah 26:9 ....for when thy judgements are in the earth; the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Christ judgements are not yet in the earth:
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature (creation) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of GOD.
Romans 8:21 For the creature (creation) ITSELF also SHALL BE DELIVERED into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS until the end, to him will I give power over the nation:
Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessel of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when ALL THINGS SHALL BE SUBDUED UNTO HIM (at judgement), then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD (SPIRIT, LIFE, TRUTH) may be ALL IN ALL.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we believe in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even those saved at judgement), especially those that believe (during the age of grace).
People commonly like to say that everyone goes to heaven. But the Bible indicates something different to me. It says all will face judgment. It also says when Jesus returns the dead will rise and all will be caught up in the air- which I believe happens before judgment. Given the order the Bible says, I believe after death we will be in a state of rest awaiting Jesus's return. The Bible even describes this as "sleep" in a few verses.
Regarding children, we have verses saying to be childlike, but verses also say all have a sinful nature and all have sinned. We all will die, we just don't know the timing and God is a fair judge. He will also judge those who assume they were 'saved' but lived a life following the world rather than Jesus.
What Happens To the Body and Spirit at Death - In Reply - 2 years ago
I wrote this yesterday. S
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a LIVING SOUL.
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21
I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?
Job 12:7-10 But ask the beasts, and they will teach you; the birds of the heavens, and they will tell you; or the bushes of the earth, and they will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this?
***In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of ALL mankind.***
Ecclesiastes 12:7
And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Everything returns to dust upon death. The spirits return to God. (Immediately)
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All flesh is appointed to die.
Every soul that sin shall die the 2nd death.
There's a new birth at conversion for those who trust in Christ. This is defined in baptism.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Hebrews 9:27.
There is in scripture what is called the 2nd death. This has been taken care of for those who trust Christ.
John 11:25-26. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
AND WHOSOEVER LIVETH AND BELIEVETH IN ME SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?
One of many verses on the 2nd death.
Revelation 20:13-14. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
God bless.
Every soul returns to God in heaven, Ezekiel 18:4
That is the last stop.
Even King Manasseh, even Judas, even the scribes and Pharisees, because God always taught love and forgiveness.
What you're teaching here seems to be Universalism which is considered heretical teaching by any reputable Christian. Everyone certainly does not go to heaven. The Bible is crystal clear about this subject. God is absolutely forgiving (you're right about that- in a way); but only to those that seek forgiveness and salvation through the blood of Jesus. If everyone were forgiven by God then Jesus' death served no purpose at all. But Jesus took our "rap sheet" of sins and in return we get to take His resum of righteousness before God; ONLY if we repent and trust in Jesus. I hope you'll search the Scriptures and see there isn't a single verse in the Bible that validates Universalism (unless a verse is taken out of context).
Are you sure about that?
Moses murdered an Egyptian guard, of which he never felt remorse for, nor was he arrested by Pharaoh upon his return to free Israel. Is Moses not going to heaven? Then why is Jesus with Moses in the garden? Why would Jesus associate with murderers?
Did Peter spoil his chance to get into heaven by denying Christ? No, Peter was made the head of the church!!! If you read the gospels with an unbiased mind, you might come to the conclusion that Christ's apostles would all be worthy of death. Jesus picked flawed men over perfect men because flawed men provided us with teachable and learning moments.
Did Judas, prior to hanging himself, absolve himself on earth as he wept, and confessed his sins to God? YES.
Why did Christ say to the thief crucified next to him, who spent a lifetime sinning and harming others, that they would be together in paradise!!! Christ read the thieves heart, and immediately accepted him in heaven. How can our salvation be much different?
1 John 3:15 Has two parts to it: 1) if you hate your brother, you are a murder, and 2) no murderer is in heaven. The second part, there are no murderers in heaven because everyone is RESURRECTED. What seems like a threats are really a future tense, every scripture review reflects that, otherwise, it doesn't make sense. They, in that state of resurrection, can't possibly sin.
At the Great White throne, we all have a chance to confess and make it in. Who will tell God, "no, forget you, I'll go my own way down to hell"? Will God say the demons on earth fooled you, made you to err, now you're gonna pay"? Haven't we paid enough? Does my soul have to pay for never ever asking to be born into this satanically driven world? I don't want to be here, living in sin, but that's what I'm programmed to do. Everyone is worthy of eternal death, but the love of God, and Jesus' sacrifice saves us. Heavens gate to Jesus is narrow, but miles wide for us.
Plenty of verses describe Annihilationism (Conditionalism). Malachi Chapter 4 sums it up best. It says those that will die in their sins will be burnt up and "left neither root nor branch". It goes on to say they will be "ashes under the soles of your feet".
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not PERISH, but have everlasting life."
That verse sums it up best.
My friend, I'm sorry but Universalism is just extremely ignorant and it's not just a heresy, but a damnable heresy.
If everyone went to heaven, then Hell (Sheol) wouldn't exist. The Lake of Fire wouldn't exist. The Bible very clearly talks about people going to both Hell, and the Lake of Fire. You really need to get away from false teachers and study your Bible more.
Are the 800,000 Muslim's headed for hell because they don't confess Jesus as their savior? Or do they have a place?
Scripturally, you don't know where one sentence begins, or where it ends, because you consume it as one.
God's promise is an all inclusive hierarchy, not a cream of the crop race to the top.
It sounds like someone thinks you believe 100% of everyone will go to heaven- is that actually what you believe? If so, how did you come to this conclusion and what was your greatest influence in arriving at that conclusion?
In my years of Bible study and I've never come across a verse appearing to supporting that, but have found many supporting the opposite. I try to pray for wisdom and understanding when I read- do you practice that do you feel that God has confirmed anything in your heart about the info you are posting publically here?
I'm not 100% sure that is what you believe, but if it is, I would look closely at scripture for the truth. Scripture doesn't require any creative interpretion, but just to read literally.
Matthew 7:13-14 - says "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Do you believe this verse that "few find it"? To me, "few" doesn't mean "all." What does "few" mean to you?
Matthew 10:28 - this says to "fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
do you agree that we should fear God, or fear that He could destroy our soul and body in hell?
1 John 1:9. This says "If..." which is a conditional statement meaning that if we do something, this will be the result. Do you believe this verse is truth? If not, what part of it do you not believe?
John 15:10 is another conditional statement "If ye keep my commandments..." - do you agree?
Do you think this means, if you don't keep the commandments, that's fine too and won't change the outcome? Do you think it's possible the Bible would say something like that and not mean it?
Thank you for helping explain your religious beliefs.
Your reply didn't really clarify your view or where it originates from, but I noticed you didn't cite any scriptures in your explanation, like Matt 7:13. Maybe you have an ideal or value you hold higher above the Bible that you aspire to and I wonder where it comes from. You called this deeper in the tunnel, but this metaphor to most Christians would mean deeper study of the truth God's Word, not another ideology to satisfy itching ears. 2 Timothy 4:3.
The Bible is black and white that hell exists and there's a threat of most people going there as it says in John 3:16-18. Jesus lovingly died for our sins to pay the debt if we humble ourselves and follow Him, which includes us turning from our evil ways. This is where satan loves to deceive as he will convince some Christians to cherrypick certain scriptures and throw out others, making their own brew that satisfies their desires.
I'm not sure if you believe in satan or not, if he tricks people like it says in 1 Peter 5:8, Matthew 26:41. But when satan convinces people he doesn't exist or that its fine to sin, because everyone is "saved anyway", then that has his signature all over it. Such ideas are bathed in his deceit which usually starts from a little concession, then another one to build on that, on and on, until someone doesn't believe scripture like John 14:15- that maybe they think they don't have to be obedient whatsoever, despite John 3:16-18
Have you prayed and asked God if your "deeper tunnel" is the truth?
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Most problem is they think man has to be saved in this age of grace, when scripture teaches most will be saved in the age of judgement.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth (in the grave) for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Romans 8:21 For the creature itself SHALL BE DELIVERED into the glorious liberty of the CHILDREN OF GOD.
This happens when Christ has gathered his elect in this age of grace and returns, in the age of judgement, to judge the world.
Isaiah 26:9 ....when thy judgements are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
GBU
1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
This says those in Christ shall be made alive. Most people aren't "in Christ" and reject Him. Why would God welcome people who reject and hate Him into heaven a place He prepared only for those who love and follow Him? Hitler for example wasn't a Christ follower and wasn't in Christ. Judas was a follower, but betrayed and rejected Christ so he wasn't in Christ either. Most people aren't, as the Bible says. Do you believe that?
The fact is most of the Bible is warnings about who we will follow: we will follow Christ or will we follow satan (the world)? Parable after parable Jesus talked about warning us repeatedly. The whole gospel is am opportunity to be saved from our sins, which most reject, but don't have to. God gave us freewill to choose.
Did you read the whole chapter of the verse you shared 1 Corinthians 15?
Look at verse 2: another "if..." conditional statement. If you "keep in memory" and have not believed in vain.
verses 12-17 talks about false teachings, how people like to make up stuff which misses the whole purpose of the gospel.
verse 19 "If in this life only we have hope in Christ."
Keyword "hope". We have hope in Him, and hope for eternal life. We haven't been judged yet. This is why Christ gives us hope. Most do not have hope and will go to hell. This should deeply concern people. Jesus warned us over and over about this. So many verses, so many parables.
verse 25- all enemies will be under his feet. If someone only cherry picks the one verse 22 and ignores this one may be tempted to draw the false conclusion that all are in Christ, but this verse only 3 verses later makes it clear that no, not 100% of everyone is "in Christ" but enemies
What's the difference, you'll believe what you want to believe. I gave you enough facts to reverse your stance, you are free to think and defend whatever your heart desires. Whatever I say you will disagree with; your mind is made up, the nuance of your tone says it all. I don't buy your take on God destroying His creations, void the 3 evil spirits. God is a loving God that isn't like men; His ways are not our ways. Maybe God will do you like that for thinking you can dictate who is worthy of heaven, and who is not. You didn't catch the scriptures that threaten salvation after the fact, which is not possible, like water being dry. That is the point.
Read at face value, the salvation threats from God make absolutely no sense. You don't think God uses His own propaganda to frighten souls using the premise that the wages of sin are death? 1 John 3:15, and others the like, states that no murderers are in heaven because it is impossible for those in heaven to commit murder by virtue of resurrection. It sounds like you don't want to open the prisons, like the gift is all yours, and that of the chosen (we are all chosen), because you say so, because they are your lessors. Discounting the ability of Christ to blanket humanity with the promise of everlasting life is not yours to propagate. I have offered you a grand vision, you've given me more of this world.
It seems you made a few false assumptions, which I can cite as a specific example, but otherwise, I didn't understand what you wrote.
You: "for thinking you can dictate who is worthy of heaven"
Truth: God is the judge and chooses who goes to heaven or hell. I read what the Bible says and choose to believe God's word. Why would you assume "I" dictate who is worthy of heaven? It seems like quite a stretch to paint me as a bad guy for simply believing God's Word if that is your intent.
Maybe you feel upset that a good God has rules of right and wrong and that people who violate God's rules are "wrong" and subject to punishment. God loves people enough to give them all freewill and a fair and equal opportunity to follow Him. Those who reject Him and follow satan will not spend eternity with God. Some people reject God in the most hateful, vile, satanic way and it sounds like you think you'll be hanging out with them in heaven. That's not what the Bible says.
"I have offered you a grand vision" - that doesn't sound like your belief comes from the Bible, but some other ideology or religion which most don't believe. I don't believe it, because the Bible is clear what it says like Matthew 10:28 and it's not a joke. You aren't entitled to salvation. We all are deserving of the opposite. We aren't "good", we are sinful beings deserving death. Sin is like slapping God in the face. It's a big deal. Thanks to Jesus dying for our sins we have the opportunity to follow Him and for eternal life in heaven. God bless.
Again.... damnable heresy!!
Your interpretation is flawed, based on what you think you read, and in your own capacity. There's more to it.
Tell me one person God destroys; you can't because that doesn't happen.
Look deeper in the tunnel. There are many layers of meaning to dissect, as above. What you believe in is the literal division of souls, anti-love, caretaker view, which is limited to the traits God gave you. So, I will correct the record. You want to enforce strict rules you've personally kept for a long time, like virgin oil. Then, who needs Jesus when Jesus forgot about the lost sheep, the spiritually downtrodden? God died for All of us, saint and sinner.
The Bible teachings are geared to groom a solid, moral citizen; benefiting mankind. This is not a race of the less sinless to the finish line because some are born in a Christian nation, and not a mud hut in Zimbabwe. Christianity proves an unfair advantage for the white man.
I don't murder people because of my loving belief in God, but because it is against the law and not my nature. I was just lucky not to be born a felon, a high degree thief, or a Vietnam Vet with no arms or legs, picketing outside Heavens Gate, drinking coolaid.
Your ledger forgets about God's great compassion for us. I want a reformed Stalin, Hitler, Putin, Bush, Cheny, Rumsfeld, Kissenger, Obama, Clinton, in heaven. I want the insane, the high functioning criminals, the incarcerated and lost souls to enter heaven. Without these people, prophesy could never be fulfilled.
If God destroyed His creations, He is also destroying the potential.
If someone was about to be rejected by God, and that person could reverse the decision by asking God questions, they would be: Who made who? Secondary questions: You regretted making man, which is on par with making a mistake. I see you have David in heaven, did you know what he did to Uriah? Why were you on anti-Christ's side, furbishing the sword you put in his hand, and delighted in his devices of indignation, only to turn on him? Why did you blame anti-christ for doing your will, destroying Babylon? God says: Welcome my son, welcome to heaven.
Psalms 22:27 And all the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
There are going to remember when they are resurrected back to their flesh and judged by Christ and his ELECT.
Isaiah 26:9 ....for when thy judgements are in the earth; the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Christ judgements are not yet in the earth:
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature (creation) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of GOD.
Romans 8:21 For the creature (creation) ITSELF also SHALL BE DELIVERED into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS until the end, to him will I give power over the nation:
Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessel of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when ALL THINGS SHALL BE SUBDUED UNTO HIM (at judgement), then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD (SPIRIT, LIFE, TRUTH) may be ALL IN ALL.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we believe in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even those saved at judgement), especially those that believe (during the age of grace).
GBU as we come to the TRUTH of God's words.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Yes I believe the little children and some mentally challenged people will go to heaven.
Here's why, There seems to be an age of accountability.
Deuteronomy 1:39. Here Joshua reminds Israel of the decree given by God in Numbers 14:21-33. Here the age of accountability is 20 years old.
James 4:17. I don't see a one year old knowing he's in need of a savior.
Romans 14:12. This is something a child can't do.
King David seems to think at least babies go to heaven in 2 Samuel 12:19-23.
Today this may have more to do with maturity which differs from one kid to another.
Perhaps at an early age one may know good from evil but lack full knowledge and understanding of the gospel, and need of a savior. I hope this helps.
God bless.
Read Matthew19:13-15 and Matthew 18:3-5.
So according to what i understand from these verses yes they go to Heaven.
God bless you.
People commonly like to say that everyone goes to heaven. But the Bible indicates something different to me. It says all will face judgment. It also says when Jesus returns the dead will rise and all will be caught up in the air- which I believe happens before judgment. Given the order the Bible says, I believe after death we will be in a state of rest awaiting Jesus's return. The Bible even describes this as "sleep" in a few verses.
Regarding children, we have verses saying to be childlike, but verses also say all have a sinful nature and all have sinned. We all will die, we just don't know the timing and God is a fair judge. He will also judge those who assume they were 'saved' but lived a life following the world rather than Jesus.
Philippians 2:15
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a LIVING SOUL.
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21
I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?
Job 12:7-10 But ask the beasts, and they will teach you; the birds of the heavens, and they will tell you; or the bushes of the earth, and they will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this?
***In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of ALL mankind.***
Ecclesiastes 12:7
And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Everything returns to dust upon death. The spirits return to God. (Immediately)
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