I've been reading in Romans and having read up to chapter 9 I would be interested in what others can tell me about verses 22-24 where it says:
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only but also of the Gentiles?"
Particularly, I am wondering what is meant by "vessels of wrath" God prepared versus "vessels of mercy" God prepared.
Thank you in advance for your input. I've been thinking on this since last night. So, I guess it is good for me to share my query on here.
Loving Father, I just want to thank You for the wonderful way that You have kept me in such good health for so many years, and protected me from so many troublesome diseases.
You have lifted me up when I have been down, supported me through times of weakness, and You have also healed me when I have succumbed to a bed of sickness.
Keep me, I pray, in good health and strength. Let me run and not grow weary, and may I be used as a comfort and support to those that are not so fortunate as I. In Jesus' name,
Amen.
May we be strong like Abraham and Moses so we may do the work You have blessed us with. Help me to practice patience with myself. I ask for angels to undergird my movements lest I dash my foot against all hindrances before me.
The emphasis is on Gods mercy, not His wrath. No one can call God to account for what He does. But He does not exercise His freedom of choice arbitrarily, and He shows great patience even towards the objects of His wrath. The purpose of such patience is to bring about repentance. The main point is the sovereign freedom of God in dealing with man. God bless!
The tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil (opposites).
The word Of God is BUILT AROUND PARABLES, tree, or trees, is signified (represents something other than what it is in the physical).
Christ is a Lamb, TREE OF LIFE ETC.
The New Testament parables teach that we are the garden of God (Eden). Isaiah 5:7Ezekiel 31:8
The TREE of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil exist in the midst of the garden (CHRIST is this tree, as he is also the tree of Life) In the midst of the garden.
Colossians 1:27 ..this mystery ...CHRIST IN YOU ..
We have only knowledge of evil, until Christ (the Holy Ghost) releases, or causes, us to have the mind of Christ (then we sprout and eventually become a tree, also. Isaiah 6:13Ezekiel 47:7Revelation 22:1-2
There is ONLY ONE SPIRIT, but the KNOWLEDGE of that ONE SPIRIT contains both good and evil.
Genesis 3:22 ....the man has BECOME LIKE ONE OF US (the man has become like God) to know good and evil....
Before man ate (the words of God), which is the TREE of KNOWLEDGE (Christ), he was the Child of SATAN (no knowledge).
You are BORN AGAIN by THE WORD'S OF GOD.
1 Peter 1:23 BEING BORN AGAIN ....by the WORD'S OF GOD ...
Now Satan (DARKNESS)(lies, deception, falsehoods) has been DESTROYED and LIGHT SHINES FORTH.
Isaiah 45:7 I FORM THE LIGHT, AND CAUSE DARKNESS: I make peace, and create evil ..
Isaiah 9:2 The people that waked in DARKNESS, have seen a GREAT LIGHT ...
WHO IS SATAN?
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are PERFECT (born of truth), yet not the WISDOM OF THIS WORLD, nor of THE PRINCES OF THIS WORLD (children of Satan living in lies, deception and falsehoods, children of death and the grave).
1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the PRINCES of this world knew, for had they known it, they would not have crucified the LORD OF GLORY.
Matthew 12:38 But if I (our God is a consuming FIRE) cast out devils (lies, deception, falsehoods) ...then the KINGDOM IS COME
Hey; hows your surgery doing? Anyhoo; I'm back for another one of my scripture interpretations. It is clear that since judgment doesn't come at once; man persists in his sin. This roughly is the translation of Ecclesiastes 8:11. Clearly; God has no joy in the death of the wicked; and toward His elect He waits as long as decreed through foreknowledge until the prompting of the Spirit draws them in. God demonstrates fairness by allowing men to heap up sins ( Hosea 14:1 and many other scriptures); and the desperately wicked heart becomes systematically harder as Pharoah. This pattern is evident with todays rebellion as 2 Timothy 3:1 and following verses state; and in Revelation sin will progress to people hiding from Christ and He who is seated on the Thone ( Rev. 6:16) to where they will actively fight Christ at His return ( Rev. 19:19-20; Psalm 2; etal).
In Psalm 22; we see Christ's sufferings on the cross; but also He is in the "presence of His enemies" in verse 5. There is a day of reckoning; as you know. When God endures so that no one will perish( 2 Peter 3:9); it is only effective for those He has called and chosen; but for a time the tares remain with the wheat so that His purposes can stand and when the last man to be saved comes to pass then judgment is final on the rest. Only He knows that day. The mark of the beast will "seal the deal" as it were. The test coming to the whole world will come; and the sins piled to the sky in Rev. 18 will bring His wrath in full measure to "Babylon the Great." Therefore; nations of the wicked come to full fruition or ripeness for judgment; which was the case with nations in the O.T. past as well. The wicked always are used for God's purposes as is Satan Himself.
Sister GiGi, every Word God has ever spoken WILL COME TO PASS.
This is why it is SO IMPORTANT to understand, and believe, MOSSES and THE PROPHETS.
The Spirit of Christ prophesied that ONLY ONE THIRD (vessels of honour) of creation would be CALLED in this age of GRACE (the DAY OF THE LORD).
Ezekiel 5:1 .....then take three balances and weigh, and DIVIDE the hair ....( Revelation 6:5-6)
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall burn the THIRD PART in the midst of the city ....(you are the new Jerusalem of God)
Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shall also take thereof a FEW IN NUMBER, and bind them in thy skirts ( Psalms 133:2).
Ezekiel 5:4 Then take of them (the few) and cast them into the FIRE ( Malachi 3:2-3), and burn them (the few) in the FIRE; for thereof (the few) shall a FIRE ( Psalms 104:4) COME FORTH unto the House of Israel (you are the TRUE house of Israel).
Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob (Jacob was the shadow; Christ is the TRUE) SHALL BE A FIRE, and the house of Joseph (Joseph was the shadow; Christ is the TRUE) shall be a flame, and the house of ESAU for stubble ..
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon Mount Zion, to judge the mount of ESAU; and the KINGDOM (of GOD)(CHRIST IN YOU) shall be the Lord's.
Zechariah 13:09 And I WILL bring the THIRD PART THROUGH THE FIRE ..
Revelation 8:7 ... and there followed HAIL and FIRE .....
Isaiah 28:2 Behold, the Lord (the Father ) hath a strong and might one (CHRIST), which as a tempest of HAIL and a destroying storm ....
Isaiah 28:17 ..and the HAIL shall sweep away the refuge of lies ..
Revelation 8:8 ...as it were a great mountain BURNING WITH FIRE ...
Daniel 2:35 ...and the stone (CHRIST) that smote THE IMAGE (of the beast)( Revelation 13:15) became a great mountain (Mount Zion) ...
Revelation 9:18 By these three was a THIRD PART of man killed, by the FIRE, and by the SMOKE, and by the BRIMSTONE, WHICH ISSUED of there MOUTH.
The LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE comes out of the MOUTH, THE FIRE AND BRIMSTONE ARE THE WORD'S OF GOD.
What do you understand from the judgement that is described in Matthew 25:31-46
Please pay attention to verses 41 and 46.
"V41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" Cursed, everlasting fire, go to a place prepared for the devil and his angels? I dont think that you believe that the devil and his angels will be saved as well.
"V46. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment (the text says Hell): but the righteous into life eternal.". Everlasting panishment? Don't all those plus many more show that not everybody is going to be saved?
If I misunderstood your posts so far, I am sorry beforehand.
Giannis, I don't know for sure your beliefs, whether man can go to Hell.
People look at scriptures in light of their beliefs, most often what they have been taught from childhood.
Those teaching most often were inspired by man's teachings. These teachings are ingrained and VERY HARD TO OVERCOME.
Mosses and the Prophets is all about the KINGDOM OF GOD.
When you understand Mosses and the Prophets, the New Testament will align with Mosses and the Prophets.
The OLD teaches ALL CREATION, at some point (in the coming ages) will be reconciled to God.
The Old teaches God does things at an appointed time, because the WORDS were spoken before the foundation of the worlds and are being fulfilled in that order.
The Old is a shadow of the NEW, that GOD CHOOSES certain ones as vessels of mercy and certain ones as vessels of dishonour.
Those CHOSEN in this age will become Ministering spirits: those not CHOSEN, will lay in the grave UNTIL the RESURRECTION OF JUDGEMENT.
When God raises those in the graves back to their flesh, Christ and his ministering spirits will JUDGE THEM and bring them to TRUTH.
Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people (his creation) have gone into captivity, because they have no KNOWLEDGE .....
God is solving this problem of NO KNOWLEDGE by giving his creation the MIND OF CHRIST; but in his appointed time, to fulfil the WORDS SPOKEN.
Isaiah 11:9 ...for the earth SHALL BE FULL OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD .....
Romans 8:20 For creation was MADE SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly .....
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation OF CREATION WAITETH (God's appointed time) for the manifestation of the SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 For CREATION ITSELF shall be delivered from corruption (the grave) INTO THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
1 Timothy 4:10 Therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even those that are saved in the age of judgement), SPECIALLY THOSE WHO (are caused) to BELIEVE.
First I would like to thank Brother Jesse for enhancing my understanding of that verse.
Second I would like to share the way I've heard it taught as well starting from Romans 9:17-20. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
J Vernon Mcgee says God brought out what was already in Pharoahs heart. He was a bad vessel from the start, God used Him to show his power in Egypt.
Here's something I can share with you. In Romans 9:22, that word "fitted" is what is called the Middle Voice in Greek. That is, the vessel itself, made itself a condition of a vessel for destruction. Nowhere in the text does it ever say God makes a good vessel for a vessel of destruction. I'm not sure if that's what you were wondering about?
I'll use Judas Iscariot for an example. Judas didn't become evil and filled with Satan because God said, "I need to put Satan in you because I need somebody to be an evil disciple."
The bible says Judas was evil already. In John Chapter 6, Jesus said, "Haven't I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a demon." Jesus needed somebody who was evil to fulfil the role of an evil disciple. But Judas was already evil.
So a vessel fitted for destruction, and again, the word fitted means that the vessel conditions itself to be fitted for destruction. God doesn't do it. But once it's fitted for destruction, and it is a vessel of destruction, God uses it. He uses both honorable vessels and dishonorable vessels. He'll use them both for His glory and for His honor out of His choice. He used Judas (a dishonorable vessel) to fulfil prophecy.
And by the way, the instructions about the potters are coming from Jeremiah Chapter 18. You might want to put that to the left of Verse 22. Jeremiah Chapter 18 is about the potter. All the Jewish people know about the parable of the potter in Jeremiah 18.
Anyways, that's my two-cents worth. Have a blessed day in Christ!
Yes, that is the right explanation, brother Jesse, although the text says "trained". Trained by whom? By themselves. Spencer's answer is right too. It is what i was also tought.
The greek text says (I am using latin letters since this site does't recognise greek letters)
V 22. - "Ei the thelon o Theos endeixasthai ten orgen kai gnorisasthai to dynaton autu enegen en polle makrothymia skeue orges KATARTISMENA eis apoleian"
English: "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath FITTED to destruction"
The word that is translated in English as FITTED is the word KATARTISMENA. The noun of this word is KATARTISIS. Although there is not a precise respective in English for what it means, in general it means study, spiritual training, aquasition of spiritual supplies, spiritual forming etc. Thus what the verse means is that those vessels of wrath trained/formed themselves to be like that, wanted and worked in their mind to be against God's will.
Often a problem arises from not so successful translations. Even in modern Greek Gospels the word used is PREPARED which leads one to think that God Himself made and prepared some people to become vessels of wrath, which is absolutely wrong. Thit also violates God's rule that people must use their FREE will to accept Him. Your explanation is great.
Yes, I agree with what you wrote. Also, no worries on the lettering. I do own a copy of the Textus Receptus and do read from it when I am looking for help in understanding certain sections of my English bible. English is such a general language where words can have multiple meanings. I think that is why we have so many denominational churches today. It is because people cannot agree on what the English text is saying. However, not so with the Greek which is such an exact language and almost impossible to come away with multiple meanings on what the text is saying. I think the Lord knew what He was doing by choosing Greek as the original language for the doctrinal section of our bibles.
Well, you two have learned a very valuable language! I never learned another language other than English. If I could choose one now, I'd choose Greek. I do think it would take me many years to learn it fluently. So you two are valuable to us on this site.
I've been reading in Romans and having read up to chapter 9 I would be interested in what others can tell me about verses 22-24 where it says:
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only but also of the Gentiles?"
Particularly, I am wondering what is meant by "vessels of wrath" God prepared versus "vessels of mercy" God prepared.
Thank you in advance for your input. I've been thinking on this since last night. So, I guess it is good for me to share my query on here.
Loving Father, I just want to thank You for the wonderful way that You have kept me in such good health for so many years, and protected me from so many troublesome diseases.
You have lifted me up when I have been down, supported me through times of weakness, and You have also healed me when I have succumbed to a bed of sickness.
Keep me, I pray, in good health and strength. Let me run and not grow weary, and may I be used as a comfort and support to those that are not so fortunate as I. In Jesus' name,
Amen.
May we be strong like Abraham and Moses so we may do the work You have blessed us with. Help me to practice patience with myself. I ask for angels to undergird my movements lest I dash my foot against all hindrances before me.
likewise: the vessels of god's mercy = both jews and gentiles
the tribulation (is not) god's wrath.
god's mercy & god's wrath (are revealed) in matt.25-46 where jesus says:
come ye blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you.
ye blessed = vessels of mercy = both jews and gentiles
ye blessed = god's angels = all those who walk along the strait & narrow.
then shall jesus say: depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil (and for his angels).
ye cursed = the devils angels = all those who walk along the broad way.
the devils angels = both jews and gentiles
Everything has an OPPOSITE.
The tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil (opposites).
The word Of God is BUILT AROUND PARABLES, tree, or trees, is signified (represents something other than what it is in the physical).
Christ is a Lamb, TREE OF LIFE ETC.
The New Testament parables teach that we are the garden of God (Eden). Isaiah 5:7 Ezekiel 31:8
The TREE of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil exist in the midst of the garden (CHRIST is this tree, as he is also the tree of Life) In the midst of the garden.
Colossians 1:27 ..this mystery ...CHRIST IN YOU ..
We have only knowledge of evil, until Christ (the Holy Ghost) releases, or causes, us to have the mind of Christ (then we sprout and eventually become a tree, also. Isaiah 6:13 Ezekiel 47:7 Revelation 22:1-2
There is ONLY ONE SPIRIT, but the KNOWLEDGE of that ONE SPIRIT contains both good and evil.
Genesis 3:22 ....the man has BECOME LIKE ONE OF US (the man has become like God) to know good and evil....
Before man ate (the words of God), which is the TREE of KNOWLEDGE (Christ), he was the Child of SATAN (no knowledge).
You are BORN AGAIN by THE WORD'S OF GOD.
1 Peter 1:23 BEING BORN AGAIN ....by the WORD'S OF GOD ...
Now Satan (DARKNESS)(lies, deception, falsehoods) has been DESTROYED and LIGHT SHINES FORTH.
Isaiah 45:7 I FORM THE LIGHT, AND CAUSE DARKNESS: I make peace, and create evil ..
Isaiah 9:2 The people that waked in DARKNESS, have seen a GREAT LIGHT ...
WHO IS SATAN?
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are PERFECT (born of truth), yet not the WISDOM OF THIS WORLD, nor of THE PRINCES OF THIS WORLD (children of Satan living in lies, deception and falsehoods, children of death and the grave).
1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the PRINCES of this world knew, for had they known it, they would not have crucified the LORD OF GLORY.
Matthew 12:38 But if I (our God is a consuming FIRE) cast out devils (lies, deception, falsehoods) ...then the KINGDOM IS COME
In Psalm 22; we see Christ's sufferings on the cross; but also He is in the "presence of His enemies" in verse 5. There is a day of reckoning; as you know. When God endures so that no one will perish( 2 Peter 3:9); it is only effective for those He has called and chosen; but for a time the tares remain with the wheat so that His purposes can stand and when the last man to be saved comes to pass then judgment is final on the rest. Only He knows that day. The mark of the beast will "seal the deal" as it were. The test coming to the whole world will come; and the sins piled to the sky in Rev. 18 will bring His wrath in full measure to "Babylon the Great." Therefore; nations of the wicked come to full fruition or ripeness for judgment; which was the case with nations in the O.T. past as well. The wicked always are used for God's purposes as is Satan Himself.
Agape. Rich P.
Awesome chapter .
This is why it is SO IMPORTANT to understand, and believe, MOSSES and THE PROPHETS.
The Spirit of Christ prophesied that ONLY ONE THIRD (vessels of honour) of creation would be CALLED in this age of GRACE (the DAY OF THE LORD).
Ezekiel 5:1 .....then take three balances and weigh, and DIVIDE the hair ....( Revelation 6:5-6)
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall burn the THIRD PART in the midst of the city ....(you are the new Jerusalem of God)
Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shall also take thereof a FEW IN NUMBER, and bind them in thy skirts ( Psalms 133:2).
Ezekiel 5:4 Then take of them (the few) and cast them into the FIRE ( Malachi 3:2-3), and burn them (the few) in the FIRE; for thereof (the few) shall a FIRE ( Psalms 104:4) COME FORTH unto the House of Israel (you are the TRUE house of Israel).
Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob (Jacob was the shadow; Christ is the TRUE) SHALL BE A FIRE, and the house of Joseph (Joseph was the shadow; Christ is the TRUE) shall be a flame, and the house of ESAU for stubble ..
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon Mount Zion, to judge the mount of ESAU; and the KINGDOM (of GOD)(CHRIST IN YOU) shall be the Lord's.
Zechariah 13:09 And I WILL bring the THIRD PART THROUGH THE FIRE ..
Revelation 8:7 ... and there followed HAIL and FIRE .....
Isaiah 28:2 Behold, the Lord (the Father ) hath a strong and might one (CHRIST), which as a tempest of HAIL and a destroying storm ....
Isaiah 28:17 ..and the HAIL shall sweep away the refuge of lies ..
Revelation 8:8 ...as it were a great mountain BURNING WITH FIRE ...
Daniel 2:35 ...and the stone (CHRIST) that smote THE IMAGE (of the beast)( Revelation 13:15) became a great mountain (Mount Zion) ...
Revelation 9:18 By these three was a THIRD PART of man killed, by the FIRE, and by the SMOKE, and by the BRIMSTONE, WHICH ISSUED of there MOUTH.
The LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE comes out of the MOUTH, THE FIRE AND BRIMSTONE ARE THE WORD'S OF GOD.
What do you understand from the judgement that is described in Matthew 25:31-46
Please pay attention to verses 41 and 46.
"V41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" Cursed, everlasting fire, go to a place prepared for the devil and his angels? I dont think that you believe that the devil and his angels will be saved as well.
"V46. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment (the text says Hell): but the righteous into life eternal.". Everlasting panishment? Don't all those plus many more show that not everybody is going to be saved?
If I misunderstood your posts so far, I am sorry beforehand.
GBU
People look at scriptures in light of their beliefs, most often what they have been taught from childhood.
Those teaching most often were inspired by man's teachings. These teachings are ingrained and VERY HARD TO OVERCOME.
Mosses and the Prophets is all about the KINGDOM OF GOD.
When you understand Mosses and the Prophets, the New Testament will align with Mosses and the Prophets.
The OLD teaches ALL CREATION, at some point (in the coming ages) will be reconciled to God.
The Old teaches God does things at an appointed time, because the WORDS were spoken before the foundation of the worlds and are being fulfilled in that order.
The Old is a shadow of the NEW, that GOD CHOOSES certain ones as vessels of mercy and certain ones as vessels of dishonour.
Those CHOSEN in this age will become Ministering spirits: those not CHOSEN, will lay in the grave UNTIL the RESURRECTION OF JUDGEMENT.
When God raises those in the graves back to their flesh, Christ and his ministering spirits will JUDGE THEM and bring them to TRUTH.
Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people (his creation) have gone into captivity, because they have no KNOWLEDGE .....
God is solving this problem of NO KNOWLEDGE by giving his creation the MIND OF CHRIST; but in his appointed time, to fulfil the WORDS SPOKEN.
Isaiah 11:9 ...for the earth SHALL BE FULL OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD .....
Romans 8:20 For creation was MADE SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly .....
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation OF CREATION WAITETH (God's appointed time) for the manifestation of the SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 For CREATION ITSELF shall be delivered from corruption (the grave) INTO THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
1 Timothy 4:10 Therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even those that are saved in the age of judgement), SPECIALLY THOSE WHO (are caused) to BELIEVE.
First I would like to thank Brother Jesse for enhancing my understanding of that verse.
Second I would like to share the way I've heard it taught as well starting from Romans 9:17-20. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
J Vernon Mcgee says God brought out what was already in Pharoahs heart. He was a bad vessel from the start, God used Him to show his power in Egypt.
God bless.
We are the workmanship of God not ourselves .
God knows the end from the beginning.
God is sovereign.
No counsel is against the Lord .
God is faithful.
No one can search God out or know his ways totally .
Seek and you will find ask and it shall be given .
Those that are harden like pharaoh of old , wanted not the truth but their own .
God is final judge who can question that ?
Here's something I can share with you. In Romans 9:22, that word "fitted" is what is called the Middle Voice in Greek. That is, the vessel itself, made itself a condition of a vessel for destruction. Nowhere in the text does it ever say God makes a good vessel for a vessel of destruction. I'm not sure if that's what you were wondering about?
I'll use Judas Iscariot for an example. Judas didn't become evil and filled with Satan because God said, "I need to put Satan in you because I need somebody to be an evil disciple."
The bible says Judas was evil already. In John Chapter 6, Jesus said, "Haven't I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a demon." Jesus needed somebody who was evil to fulfil the role of an evil disciple. But Judas was already evil.
So a vessel fitted for destruction, and again, the word fitted means that the vessel conditions itself to be fitted for destruction. God doesn't do it. But once it's fitted for destruction, and it is a vessel of destruction, God uses it. He uses both honorable vessels and dishonorable vessels. He'll use them both for His glory and for His honor out of His choice. He used Judas (a dishonorable vessel) to fulfil prophecy.
And by the way, the instructions about the potters are coming from Jeremiah Chapter 18. You might want to put that to the left of Verse 22. Jeremiah Chapter 18 is about the potter. All the Jewish people know about the parable of the potter in Jeremiah 18.
Anyways, that's my two-cents worth. Have a blessed day in Christ!
GBU
If I might ask, which text are you referring to that uses the word trained? I'm not following!
I am reffering to the Greek text. If you wish we can see the verse we are interested in.
GBU
Yes, please share the verse and I'll check it out. Thank you!
The greek text says (I am using latin letters since this site does't recognise greek letters)
V 22. - "Ei the thelon o Theos endeixasthai ten orgen kai gnorisasthai to dynaton autu enegen en polle makrothymia skeue orges KATARTISMENA eis apoleian"
English: "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath FITTED to destruction"
The word that is translated in English as FITTED is the word KATARTISMENA. The noun of this word is KATARTISIS. Although there is not a precise respective in English for what it means, in general it means study, spiritual training, aquasition of spiritual supplies, spiritual forming etc. Thus what the verse means is that those vessels of wrath trained/formed themselves to be like that, wanted and worked in their mind to be against God's will.
Often a problem arises from not so successful translations. Even in modern Greek Gospels the word used is PREPARED which leads one to think that God Himself made and prepared some people to become vessels of wrath, which is absolutely wrong. Thit also violates God's rule that people must use their FREE will to accept Him. Your explanation is great.
Yes, I agree with what you wrote. Also, no worries on the lettering. I do own a copy of the Textus Receptus and do read from it when I am looking for help in understanding certain sections of my English bible. English is such a general language where words can have multiple meanings. I think that is why we have so many denominational churches today. It is because people cannot agree on what the English text is saying. However, not so with the Greek which is such an exact language and almost impossible to come away with multiple meanings on what the text is saying. I think the Lord knew what He was doing by choosing Greek as the original language for the doctrinal section of our bibles.
Thank you for sharing this!
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