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When we first got married, a Christian wives' study instructed us to make lists of the things our husbands did wrong or where they could grow in the Lord to pray against those things. We were told to place it under our mattresses. My husband and I were flipping the mattress one day, and my husband found the list. He got really angry and told his family that I was keeping track of his failures (to hold them against him). I was so shocked by his response that I didn't tell him why I created the list. Ever since then, he's been very different to me. He's done to horrible things, but I keep trying to make things work. I know that I read about "leaving things in the past alone". But, I believe that if I explain what I was doing all those years ago, he would understand that I was not trying to sabotage him. I do not want to be disobedient to God and mention this issue from the past, if I am not supposed to. I have been searching for related Scripture to determine if I should bring up the incident, because, though this happened in the past, it's a current issue. TIA.
1 Corinthians 13:5 - the end of this verse about love (charity) basically means love keeps no record of wrongs. This is all we need to know to discern that keeping lists is wrong: both mental and physical lists.
Hebrews 8:12 - shows that God does this for us, he remembers our sin no more.
Ephesians 4:32, Ephesians 5:22 - we're to forgive others as God has forgiven us, and support husbands.
What you described seems contrary to scripture and I would feel so deeply hurt if someone did that to me. It would feel like an enormous betrayal of trust. It sounds like you followed bad advice and badly hurt your husband and that it has never been resolved. It's the elephant in the room day after day, but you haven't even discussed it since? If you don't want to talk to your own husband about the #1 thing in your life, how will you ever even handle any other problems in life? In a way I would feel like some of the wedding vows would have been violated by this, if it were me.
That's great that you're seeking scripture and input from others as clearly this is weighing on your heart and you already know what is the right thing to do to try to save your marriage.
Thank you, Adam, for such a kind response. We have been married for over 20 years with many issues. I kept praying and trying to figure out where things went South with/for us, and I have been watching different Pastors' videos about men and women/wives and husbands, which prompted me to remember the incident. It wasn't as if I were thinking about this incident our entire marriage. There was no opportunity to discuss it then, as he was so angry, and didn't want to talk with me about it. He only talked with his family about it. I was shocked at his response to the list, and I was not raised to argue, so I did not know what to say or when to say it. At that point, he wouldn't have listened anyway. Plus, he's been one of those people who, if you apologize for something, he gets angry all over again. I think that if the situation were reversed, since the list was hidden, I would not feel like my husband was betraying me. I would ask him why he had the list. I would not have yelled, shut him out, or told my family. When we have faced issues, I have talked with him about them. He used to get explosively angry, tell his family and coworkers, deny, deny, deny, but things have improved, except that he still tells his family about our issues.
Hello, thanks for sharing your additional info. It sounds like you believe you didn't do anything wrong. I saw your other comments defending it, but just take notice of the comments that all of them think what you did was wrong. We are 100% unbiased as we don't know you, but know enough to know that keeping such lists is wrong. Maybe that's not the kind of response you were expecting and for me, no additional information will change my opinion.
It's really unfortunate that you are too afraid to communicate with your husband, but if you this incident damaged your relationship and if you are unwilling to talk with him about it, how else would you expect anything to change?
I'm not a counselor, just offering an opinion, but I see a potential big upside to communicating with him, and a huge downside to not. If I was too afraid of miscommunicating then at minimum I would write a letter, expressing exactly what you feel, then read it to him. If you don't feel any regret whatsoever about what you did, then I don't think this step will help or that anything else will improve, however. It sounds like you blame your husband for things and aren't admitting any wrongdoing. I think a genuine apology is in order- only if genuine, then you can clarify what was intended by it, and then why you chose not to talk to him about it. But perhaps even more important would be marital counseling. That's interesting that you say you'd be ok with your husband keeping a list of wrongdoing you've done and hide it from you, but I don't believe that's true. As you can see with the feedback, 100% think its wrong in addition to scripture and all feel it would be hurtful to them. Of course continue praying and reading the scripture, not to just defend your existing views but to learn and grow. I share this in Christian love. God bless.
Giannis had a good point about how thoughts can be placed in one's mind to cause damage. I will pray that God delivers me from blindness if the prayer list was truly a bad thing.
That's praying against the things that he's doing that are harmful to him, his Walk, and our family.
You said, "That's interesting that you say you'd be ok with your husband keeping a list of wrongdoing you've done and hide it from you, but I don't believe that's true. As you can see with the feedback, 100% think its wrong in addition to scripture and all feel it would be hurtful to them". It is absolutely true. I am being authentic about this. He's told me that he prays for me. I think that he should pray for these things until I am healed or cured. How else would he keep track and steadfastly (pray without ceasing) pray against my issues, if he doesn't maintain a list? I would hope that he wouldn't share it with anyone other than one-on-one with a Pastor, but of all the people on the planet, it is he who should keep me and cover me in prayer, and I him.
Now, in honesty, I believe that in all of this I erred when I did not talk with him about why I had the list (based upon the "tell the truth" Scriptures I shared) or how he responded based on Matthew Chapter 18:
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
His response hurt me because he became so angry, he saw not my true intent, but he saw me as someone standing against him with the list, he went outside our marriage with the list. I felt hugely betrayed. My wrong is that I did not discuss the incident 20+ years ago. But me, 20+ years ago would never have spoken up.
Giannis had a good point about how thoughts can be placed in one's mind to
Help me not to blame myself because this happened."
These are from lists of things that wives pray against. These are lists. There are similar lists for husbands. What exactly is the difference? Many online and in-person Churches ask people to provide prayer requests, so that two (or more) can stand in prayer against whatever issue or evil. Prayer requests are lists. Many online or tv Pastors jot down the requests of viewers. What they jot down are lists. I see no difference since there was no malintent. If I had maintained the list to hold over his head, that would be wrong.
I am not afraid to communicate with my husband. Afraid is not the correct word or thought. I was uncertain about discussing it because it's in the past, but present. Like I said in the beginning, I was not certain that I should bring it up because we're to "leave the past alone". I had not found the Scripture about telling the truth or had not been presented the other Scriptures until yesterday, so all that I had as guidance to more forward (or not) was the Scripture that I shared. I have talked with him about some things, and I will discuss the actual issue when the time is right--as directed by God.
I feel no regret in maintaining the prayer list. None whatsoever. My intent was Spiritual and not malicious. I feel regret that I didn't better hide it, that he found it, and that he was hurt by it. I just do not get how (other than the intent of keeping track of or laying in wait-which was not my intent) maintaining a prayer list for my husband is wrong. I understand that for the intent of pointing fingers, and because one is walking in unforgiveness, keeping track of offenses is wrong. If my husband were simultaneously drinking heavily, cutting himself, doing drugs (which he's not), and I prayed against these things, that's not keeping track of his offenses. That's praying against the things that he's doing that are harmful to
I am not offended by your response or expecting that you would respond any way but kindly. Sorry that this answer is so long, but I want to reply to all of your point
I have realized that there are three components of this circumstance:
1 I asked for advice about discussing a 20+ year-old issue. That the issue is with my husband (though, a concern that I recently realized probably still plagues our marriage) was not germane to my query. I wanted to know if it were Spiritually correct to discuss the old concern, particularly since it's still a current issue. I believe that we collectively have reconciled that issue, and I appreciate the feedback.
2 I maintained a prayer list that people believe was wrong (though I had no ill intent). Many of the issues on the prayer list are ongoing today.
3 My error 20+ years ago.
I did not notice that everyone thought my prayer list was wrong, but that is okay. Earlier, I was not defending what I did, but explaining because of someone else's comment/question. However, to be clear, I absolutely do not believe that maintaining his prayer list was wrong.
I am definitely not above reflection, so to understand why anyone would believe what I did was wrong, or why it was wrong for me to maintain a hidden prayer list for my husband, I went to several Christian sites to view other prayer advice and strategies. These were not my husband's issues, but here are some of the advisory prayers:
Prayer Against Gambling Addiction. "Dear Lord, please help (the person's name) to beat his gambling addiction. Please Lord show him the path toward a better life. Help him, please, to rebuild his life and regain the trust of his family. Oh, Lord, please fill him with courage and strength to say no to this destructive habit.
Prayer Against Spouses Porn Addiction. Show my husband that he idolizes sex. Reveal to him the reason he allowed himself to be addicted. Lord, help me to be supportive and not leave him.
I cannot imagine that I myself found a note under the matress with all my foults written on it, I would really go nuts. Wouldn't you?
You ask for advice for something that is obvious to do. Some things are common sense whether a christian or not.
Since you ask what the Scripture says read Matthew 5:23-25
v23 - Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
v24 - Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
v25 - Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
And the above is for our husbands/wives too. As soon as you found out that your husband had something against you then the first thing you had to do is to go and explain to your husband what happened. Told him that your purpose was good, didn't aim to hurt him. Discuss. Whether your husband is a christian or not it's not right to have secrets from him, at least not serious ones. Dont forget God made us one with our mates. Ephesians 5:30-31.
So what I'd do in your shoes? I would spent a day or two fasting and praying ( Esther 4:16) and then go and talk to my huaband and explain him what happened using the words of wisdom that God gives me. Great advices are also given in the other posts below .
And some more advice. Aren't you in a church? Don't you have a pastror, priest ... that you know, who knows you and your life, and can talk to him about your problems and seek help? It not wise to go around the internet and seek advice since you don't know who is to whom you are talking to.
No. I would not go nuts, if I found a list hidden because I would not feel betrayed because it was hidden. I would ask why he was keeping the list, and I would attempt to fix those things he documented. This is not a matter of common sense or lack thereof. I am not a nonsensical person. (Wow. That stung. I did not post my concern to be insulted). Seeing Scripture about "leaving the past alone" and "looking forward" made me wonder what exactly to do ( Isaiah 43:18 - Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Isaiah 43:18-19 - Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Philippians 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before. Philippians 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, etc.). Like I said to Adam, 20+ years ago, I was completely shocked by his response, he didn't want to talk with me about it, and he used to get very angry if I apologized to him about anything. Plus, I didn't remember or pinpoint the incident until recently. There is no Pastor or Priest that I can talk with right now. The reason I am using this online venue is because users provide Biblical responses that I can research.
Sorry i offended you, it was not my aim to do so. Because you think in a certain way that doesn't mean that everybody else is reacting the same way. People are different with one another. Don't forget that satan uses any chance he can get to put his thoughts in one's mind and cause a damage.
I agree with Suze on this. Who ever told you to practice such a thing was way off. As you can see, result of this was harmful. I do suggest that you come clean on this with your husband and admit that you were given wrong advice on this. Apologize and admit that you should not have done this in the first place.
Perhaps this can be turned around for good if you both talk about things you wrote and how you prayed about these things (f you really did) and listen to his "list" about you and both consider what each of you need to address with God to seek changes.
I pray every, single day of my life. I pray for my family, friends, associates, nations, leaders. Yes, I have prayed about this newly remembered incident. Thank you for responding.
I was not judging him, and I pray about the things that I know I need to overcome or where I need to grow. Here's an example, if you know your spouse eats too much candy, drinks too much alcohol, doesn't brush their teeth, aren't you going to pray against that? That's not judgement. It's health concerns. Thank you for responding.
This is just my opinion so ...honesty , it's the key to any relationship . When I first read your comment I was horrified that some one , a Christian , told you to do that . In all honesty that sounds like some kind of witch craft to me . You don't say if your husband is a Christian or how long ago his happened . I think that you two definately need to talk about this , so far you haven't done so and things are not getting better so try the other option of telling him all about it and apologising , don't forget to listen to what he has to say . This , I think , needs to be sorted and you will have to make the first move . Timing is everything so pick your moment carefully . May God bless you both and keep you both close to each other and to Him .
Thank you so much. It was over 20 years ago, but I just pinpointed recently where our marriage issues appeared to begin. Like Adam, who answered earlier, I appreciate your kindness. I truly do.
Thank you so very much for providing Scripture. I found these, as well:
Zechariah 8:16 - These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
Ephesians 4:15 - But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Ephesians 4:25 - Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
I will continue to pray that God gives me the right words, the right time, the right way, the right space to talk with him about it.
Who knows. Maybe this is not what has been bothering him all these years, but I pray that it will be reconciled in His Name.
1 Corinthians 13:5 - the end of this verse about love (charity) basically means love keeps no record of wrongs. This is all we need to know to discern that keeping lists is wrong: both mental and physical lists.
Hebrews 8:12 - shows that God does this for us, he remembers our sin no more.
Ephesians 4:32, Ephesians 5:22 - we're to forgive others as God has forgiven us, and support husbands.
What you described seems contrary to scripture and I would feel so deeply hurt if someone did that to me. It would feel like an enormous betrayal of trust. It sounds like you followed bad advice and badly hurt your husband and that it has never been resolved. It's the elephant in the room day after day, but you haven't even discussed it since? If you don't want to talk to your own husband about the #1 thing in your life, how will you ever even handle any other problems in life? In a way I would feel like some of the wedding vows would have been violated by this, if it were me.
That's great that you're seeking scripture and input from others as clearly this is weighing on your heart and you already know what is the right thing to do to try to save your marriage.
God bless...
It's really unfortunate that you are too afraid to communicate with your husband, but if you this incident damaged your relationship and if you are unwilling to talk with him about it, how else would you expect anything to change?
I'm not a counselor, just offering an opinion, but I see a potential big upside to communicating with him, and a huge downside to not. If I was too afraid of miscommunicating then at minimum I would write a letter, expressing exactly what you feel, then read it to him. If you don't feel any regret whatsoever about what you did, then I don't think this step will help or that anything else will improve, however. It sounds like you blame your husband for things and aren't admitting any wrongdoing. I think a genuine apology is in order- only if genuine, then you can clarify what was intended by it, and then why you chose not to talk to him about it. But perhaps even more important would be marital counseling. That's interesting that you say you'd be ok with your husband keeping a list of wrongdoing you've done and hide it from you, but I don't believe that's true. As you can see with the feedback, 100% think its wrong in addition to scripture and all feel it would be hurtful to them. Of course continue praying and reading the scripture, not to just defend your existing views but to learn and grow. I share this in Christian love. God bless.
Giannis had a good point about how thoughts can be placed in one's mind to cause damage. I will pray that God delivers me from blindness if the prayer list was truly a bad thing.
Thank you all.
That's praying against the things that he's doing that are harmful to him, his Walk, and our family.
You said, "That's interesting that you say you'd be ok with your husband keeping a list of wrongdoing you've done and hide it from you, but I don't believe that's true. As you can see with the feedback, 100% think its wrong in addition to scripture and all feel it would be hurtful to them". It is absolutely true. I am being authentic about this. He's told me that he prays for me. I think that he should pray for these things until I am healed or cured. How else would he keep track and steadfastly (pray without ceasing) pray against my issues, if he doesn't maintain a list? I would hope that he wouldn't share it with anyone other than one-on-one with a Pastor, but of all the people on the planet, it is he who should keep me and cover me in prayer, and I him.
Now, in honesty, I believe that in all of this I erred when I did not talk with him about why I had the list (based upon the "tell the truth" Scriptures I shared) or how he responded based on Matthew Chapter 18:
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
His response hurt me because he became so angry, he saw not my true intent, but he saw me as someone standing against him with the list, he went outside our marriage with the list. I felt hugely betrayed. My wrong is that I did not discuss the incident 20+ years ago. But me, 20+ years ago would never have spoken up.
Giannis had a good point about how thoughts can be placed in one's mind to
Help me not to blame myself because this happened."
These are from lists of things that wives pray against. These are lists. There are similar lists for husbands. What exactly is the difference? Many online and in-person Churches ask people to provide prayer requests, so that two (or more) can stand in prayer against whatever issue or evil. Prayer requests are lists. Many online or tv Pastors jot down the requests of viewers. What they jot down are lists. I see no difference since there was no malintent. If I had maintained the list to hold over his head, that would be wrong.
I am not afraid to communicate with my husband. Afraid is not the correct word or thought. I was uncertain about discussing it because it's in the past, but present. Like I said in the beginning, I was not certain that I should bring it up because we're to "leave the past alone". I had not found the Scripture about telling the truth or had not been presented the other Scriptures until yesterday, so all that I had as guidance to more forward (or not) was the Scripture that I shared. I have talked with him about some things, and I will discuss the actual issue when the time is right--as directed by God.
I feel no regret in maintaining the prayer list. None whatsoever. My intent was Spiritual and not malicious. I feel regret that I didn't better hide it, that he found it, and that he was hurt by it. I just do not get how (other than the intent of keeping track of or laying in wait-which was not my intent) maintaining a prayer list for my husband is wrong. I understand that for the intent of pointing fingers, and because one is walking in unforgiveness, keeping track of offenses is wrong. If my husband were simultaneously drinking heavily, cutting himself, doing drugs (which he's not), and I prayed against these things, that's not keeping track of his offenses. That's praying against the things that he's doing that are harmful to
I am not offended by your response or expecting that you would respond any way but kindly. Sorry that this answer is so long, but I want to reply to all of your point
I have realized that there are three components of this circumstance:
1 I asked for advice about discussing a 20+ year-old issue. That the issue is with my husband (though, a concern that I recently realized probably still plagues our marriage) was not germane to my query. I wanted to know if it were Spiritually correct to discuss the old concern, particularly since it's still a current issue. I believe that we collectively have reconciled that issue, and I appreciate the feedback.
2 I maintained a prayer list that people believe was wrong (though I had no ill intent). Many of the issues on the prayer list are ongoing today.
3 My error 20+ years ago.
I did not notice that everyone thought my prayer list was wrong, but that is okay. Earlier, I was not defending what I did, but explaining because of someone else's comment/question. However, to be clear, I absolutely do not believe that maintaining his prayer list was wrong.
I am definitely not above reflection, so to understand why anyone would believe what I did was wrong, or why it was wrong for me to maintain a hidden prayer list for my husband, I went to several Christian sites to view other prayer advice and strategies. These were not my husband's issues, but here are some of the advisory prayers:
Prayer Against Gambling Addiction. "Dear Lord, please help (the person's name) to beat his gambling addiction. Please Lord show him the path toward a better life. Help him, please, to rebuild his life and regain the trust of his family. Oh, Lord, please fill him with courage and strength to say no to this destructive habit.
Prayer Against Spouses Porn Addiction. Show my husband that he idolizes sex. Reveal to him the reason he allowed himself to be addicted. Lord, help me to be supportive and not leave him.
I cannot imagine that I myself found a note under the matress with all my foults written on it, I would really go nuts. Wouldn't you?
You ask for advice for something that is obvious to do. Some things are common sense whether a christian or not.
Since you ask what the Scripture says read Matthew 5:23-25
v23 - Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
v24 - Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
v25 - Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
And the above is for our husbands/wives too. As soon as you found out that your husband had something against you then the first thing you had to do is to go and explain to your husband what happened. Told him that your purpose was good, didn't aim to hurt him. Discuss. Whether your husband is a christian or not it's not right to have secrets from him, at least not serious ones. Dont forget God made us one with our mates. Ephesians 5:30-31.
So what I'd do in your shoes? I would spent a day or two fasting and praying ( Esther 4:16) and then go and talk to my huaband and explain him what happened using the words of wisdom that God gives me. Great advices are also given in the other posts below .
And some more advice. Aren't you in a church? Don't you have a pastror, priest ... that you know, who knows you and your life, and can talk to him about your problems and seek help? It not wise to go around the internet and seek advice since you don't know who is to whom you are talking to.
May God help you out. God Bless you.
No. I would not go nuts, if I found a list hidden because I would not feel betrayed because it was hidden. I would ask why he was keeping the list, and I would attempt to fix those things he documented. This is not a matter of common sense or lack thereof. I am not a nonsensical person. (Wow. That stung. I did not post my concern to be insulted). Seeing Scripture about "leaving the past alone" and "looking forward" made me wonder what exactly to do ( Isaiah 43:18 - Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Isaiah 43:18-19 - Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Philippians 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before. Philippians 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, etc.). Like I said to Adam, 20+ years ago, I was completely shocked by his response, he didn't want to talk with me about it, and he used to get very angry if I apologized to him about anything. Plus, I didn't remember or pinpoint the incident until recently. There is no Pastor or Priest that I can talk with right now. The reason I am using this online venue is because users provide Biblical responses that I can research.
Again sorry.
I agree with Suze on this. Who ever told you to practice such a thing was way off. As you can see, result of this was harmful. I do suggest that you come clean on this with your husband and admit that you were given wrong advice on this. Apologize and admit that you should not have done this in the first place.
Perhaps this can be turned around for good if you both talk about things you wrote and how you prayed about these things (f you really did) and listen to his "list" about you and both consider what each of you need to address with God to seek changes.
I pray every, single day of my life. I pray for my family, friends, associates, nations, leaders. Yes, I have prayed about this newly remembered incident. Thank you for responding.
Thank you so much. It was over 20 years ago, but I just pinpointed recently where our marriage issues appeared to begin. Like Adam, who answered earlier, I appreciate your kindness. I truly do.
James 1:5,
Hopefully these are helpful
Thank you so very much for providing Scripture. I found these, as well:
Zechariah 8:16 - These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
Ephesians 4:15 - But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Ephesians 4:25 - Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
I will continue to pray that God gives me the right words, the right time, the right way, the right space to talk with him about it.
Who knows. Maybe this is not what has been bothering him all these years, but I pray that it will be reconciled in His Name.
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