Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Stephen R Senff - 2 years ago
    why did the LORD want people to eat unleavened bread ?
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    There is no mention in the Bible by name of a "mustard tree." Here are the names of trees that are specifically mentioned in the Bible:

    algum, almond, almug, apple, ash, box, cedar, cinnamon, cypress, fig, fir, frankincense, fruit, green bay, hazel and chestnut, juniper, mulberry, myrtle, oak, oil, olive, pine, pomegranate, sycamore, and teil, but no giant mustard tree.
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Reply to ELB

    The parable of the mustard seed in Mark 4

    30 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?

    31 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:

    32 But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

    The parable of the sower in Mark 4

    11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

    17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

    We see two fake things in these parables. One is a giant mustard tree and the other is a flowering plant with nom root.
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Response to ELB

    There are more than one kind of seed and some seeds in the Bible are evil.

    Genesis 3:15

    And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    The mustard seed is very small but the mustard plant is a weed without branches, not a towering tree.

    Birds can be clean or unclean and birds in the branches of a tree are not generally a depiction of some sort of ecumenicism approved of God. I already mentioned Pharaoh and his great tree the Lord cut down because of his pride. This is Nebuchadnezzar's tree full of birds that the Lord also cut down because of his pride ( Daniel 4):

    20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;

    21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:

    22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.

    23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;

    24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:

    25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    In answer to ELB

    Matthew 13

    King James Version

    32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

    33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

    The parable of the mustard seed follows the parable of the tares.

    24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

    25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

    26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

    27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

    28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

    30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

    The leaven and the tares are speaking of corruption sown in the lives of Christians and the Church. These are elements of evil and speak of false professions of faith. The mustard seed is small but it does not grow large except, as in this parable, it falsely presents itself as a giant in the faith with broadly spreading towering branches with room for the fouls of heaven to lodge in. Here is what the mustard tree really is:

    Understand the Weed Issue

    It may be and seems largely accepted that the black mustard was the tree referenced in the Bible, but before planting it in your yard, you need to understand the weed issue. Black mustard is a winter annual weed in the mustard family.
  • ELB - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Marke:

    Matthew 13:31 The kingdom of heaven IS LIKE (not actual) a grain of mustard SEED ...

    Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The SEED is the WORD OF GOD (CHRIST).

    ..... which a man took (the man Jesus Christ), and sowed in his field.

    Matthew 13:38 The field is the world.

    Matthew 13:32 Which (the SEED) indeed is the least of all SEEDS: but when it (the SEED) is grown, it (the SEED) is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a TREE (of LIFE)....

    The kingdom of God is THIS TREE (of LIFE).

    ..... so that the birds (fowls) of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

    John 15:5 Ye are the branches ....

    Luke 13:9 ....and the fowls of the air (the devil) lodged in the branches of it (the tree).

    Luke 8:5 and some fell by the way side.... and the fowls of the air devoured it (the SEED)......

    Luke 8:12 Those by the way side, are those that hear, then cometh the DEVIL (fowls of the air), and taketh away THE WORD (the SEED)....

    Psalms 104:12 By them (the springs of water, living water) shall the fowls of heaven have their habitation, which sing among the branches.

    Ezekiel 17:23 In the mountain the height of Israel will I plant it (the SEED), and it (the SEED) shall bring forth boughs (branches), and bear fruit (SEED), and be a goodly cedar (tree), and UNDER IT (the tree) shall dwell every fowl of ever wing, in the shadow of the branches thereof shall they dwell.

    The devil WILL BE SHAKEN out of the branches of the kingdom of God (the TREE OF LIFE).

    Matthew 12:28 If I CAST OUT devils by the Spirit of God (LIFE and TRUTH) then the kingdom of GOD is come unto you.

    God Bless You!
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Reply to ELB

    I agree with you that most references to the birds of the air or the fowls of heaven are references to evil spirits or the devil.

    Jeremiah 5:27

    As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.
  • ELB - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Marke:

    Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he (Christ) unto them; the Kingdom of Heaven IS LIKE LEAVEN

    Would this leaven, in this parable, be GOOD or would it be BAD, since it is like the kingdom of heaven.

    Leaven is itself a PARABLE.

    The truth is, if you leaven the lump with the kingdom of heaven, then it leavens the whole lump (good).

    If you leaven the lump with the leaven of the Pharisees, then it leavens the whole lump (bad).

    The point is to be aware of the leavening you are using.

    God Bless You!
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Reply to ELB

    31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

    32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

    If we assume the picture here is one of good growth with all men or all men of all nations in the end dwelling in or under the branches of the full-grown body we must identify certain aspects of the narrative. For example, this picture cannot be one in which the kingdom of Israel blossoms in continual growth from the days of Abraham until the millennial kingdom of the Lord, so we must assume the picture here is one of steady growth of the church until at the end all nations become Christians or people from all nations become Christians.

    But that scenario conflicts with what Jesus said of the decline of the Church towards the end in which it will be asked again, shall He find faith on earth in the end?

    Luke 18:8

    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

    Christianity will not be blossoming greatly in the end just before Jesus returns, but evil will be all but out of control instead.

    Matthew 24:22

    And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Stephen.

    Leaven in scripture is known as sin and/or false doctrine.

    Matthew 16:8-12.

    Notice here in Leviticus 23:16-17

    Israel is commanded to eat leaven on a particular day.

    "Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

    Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD."

    This day is called Shavuot or feast of Pentecost. "Some recognize as the birth of the Church.

    The leaven here seems to suggest in a prophetic way the false doctrine that is to enter the Church.

    I hope this helps.

    God bless.
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    The OT is full of types and shadows depicting truths that are revealed in the NT. The Greek word for "type" is translated "ensamples" in 1 Cor. 10:11. The unleavened bread of the OT was a type of the body of Jesus Christ, as alluded to in 1 Cor. 11:24.

    1 Corinthians 11:24

    And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

    Leaven in bread would represent corruption in Jesus body and we know there was no corruption in Jesus' body - hence unleavened bread has no leaven. We know leaven causes decay. This is how one rabbit described it:

    "The imagery of leavening makes all the more sense when you know how leavening was done in ancient times, before the little "Red Star" packets came along. Whenever grain or flour is allowed to get moist, within a few days it will acquire a sour taste and start to ferment because of microbes in the air that cause the grain to decay."

    The Bible refers to leaven as an agent of decay in 1 Cor 5:

    6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

    7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
  • ELB - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Marke you said: The bible refers to leaven as an agent of decay in 1 Corinthians 5:6-7

    Matthew 13:33 Another PARABLE spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven (CHRIST IN YOU) is LIKE LEAVEN, which a woman (Christ wife) took, and HID in THREE measures of meal (creation), till the whole (creation) was LEAVENED (CHRIST IN YOU).

    The leaven is Christ, not available until Pentecost. The first Israel were unleavened.

    1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying (in self) is not good, Know ye not that a little leaving (CHRIST IN YOU) leaveneth the WHOLE LUMP (Christ in all men).

    1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the OLD LEAVEN (laws in tablets of stone), that ye may be a new lump,as you are unleavened (not holding the LAW OF SPIRIT, CHRIST IN YOU), for even Christ our passover (death passed over; Christ is eternal life) is sacrificed for us.

    God Bless You!
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Reply to ELB

    The Bible does not portray the Church as steadily growing from infancy like a tree that eventually covers the whole earth with Christ. According to the prophecy of Revelation 3 we see churches declining with time and some even dying. The last church mentioned, representing the condition of the church just before Christ returns, is the church of Laodecia where we see Christ standing on the outside seeking to make contact with some on the inside. That is not a good picture like a giant tree full of branches with the world resting in Christ.
  • ELB - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Marke, the Church is not made of brick and mortar.

    The Church is EVERY MAN.

    God's kingdom is increasing not decreasing.

    The kingdom increases every time someone comes to the truth of the gospel.

    The Church (Christ in You) has been increasing since pentecost.

    Christ is the root of THE TREE, we are the branches of THE TREE; but ALL ARE OF THE SAME TREE.

    The TREE is going to cover the whole earth.

    God Bless You!
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    The Bible may portray Jesus as a growing tree but it definitely portrays unsaved political leaders of other selected nations as growing trees destined to be cut down for pride.

    Daniel 4

    10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.

    11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:

    12 The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the fowls of the heaven dwelt in the boughs thereof, and all flesh was fed of it.

    13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;

    14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Reply to ELB

    The picture of the fowls in the heavens dwelling in the 'majestic branches' of the mustard weed corresponds to the picture of Egypt in Ezekiel 31 exalting herself like a green bay tree, spreading her branches over all nations as she exalted itself among men.

    2 Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness?

    3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

    4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

    5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

    6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

    7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

    8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

    9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

    10 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;

    11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.
  • Marke - In Reply - 2 years ago
    I don't believe the Bible ever speaks of leaven as a good thing. Leaven speaks of evil and corruption, which is why the unleavened bread refers to Jesus and Christians.

    Evil persuasion is like leaven: Gal. 5:

    8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

    9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

    Leaven is compared to malice and wickedness. Unleavened is compared to sincerity and truth.

    1 Corinthians 5:8

    Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    Christians are not old leaven in sin but unleavened in righteousness.

    1 Corinthians 5:7

    Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

    Leaven is compared to evil doctrines and evil dogmas.

    Mark 8:15

    And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

    Leaven is corruption and God forbid the Jews from offering corruption in their Sabbath observences.

    Exodus 12:19

    Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.
  • Dorothy Healy - In Reply - 2 years ago
    The Bible tells us that the Israelites were to eat only unleavened bread every year during Passover as a commemoration of the Exodus from Egyptian bondage. Since the children of Israel left Egypt hastily, they did not have time for the bread to rise. Deuteronomy 16:3: "Do not eat it with bread made with yeast, but for seven days eat unleavened bread, the bread of affliction, because you left Egypt in haste-so that all the days of your life you may remember the time of your departure from Egypt".

    In the Bible, leaven is symbolic of sin. The NT makes this very clear. ( Luke 12:1; 1 Cor. 5:6-7; Gal. 5:9) Like leaven that permeates the whole lump of dough, sin will spread in a person, a church, or a nation, eventually overwhelming and bringing its participants into its bondage. The bread that Jesus and broke would have been unleavened bread, which Christians are told to take and eat also.
  • WHY UNLEAVENED BREAD - In Reply - 2 years ago
    God picked Israel to be His peculiar people and shower His love on them. We don't know why now, but someday we will know. He asks us to pray for them and we do. We don't know why. He is the Creator. He doesn't load us up with a huge DO LIST every day. Just small requests. We need you to make contributions of your knowledge of what God is showing you, too.

    Genesis 19:3

    And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

    Exodus 12:8

    And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

    Exodus 12:17

    And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

    Exodus 12:20

    Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.

    [note: LEAVEN is flour with yeast in it. The kind we like most]. There are 50 scriptures on unleavened bread.

    Mishael



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