Here we have those who wanted the Gentiles to be circumcised. A seal "Binding them to the law."
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Acts 15:7-11.
Did you catch what Peter said? He says we "Jews" shall be saved even as they "Gentiles" you would think it should be the other way around!! reminds you of Romans 11:25-26. Then James put it in sequence here in vs 16.
After this I WILL RETURN, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
This is all future.
Concerning Judas.
John 18:9.
That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
Judas had done already betrayed Jesus, but yet Jesus I have lost none!
Judas was never chosen to sit on the twelve thrones, Every time he was mentioned we were reminded that he was going to betray Jesus. Jesus called him a devil and a their BEFORE he betrayed him. He was never saved.
I will not go through verses again since it seems me and you interpret them in a different way. OK we agree that the Israeletes will be saved sometime in the future. If I understood right you take prophesies from the OT about a kingdom of Israel with king Jesus as literal ( I believe this Israel is the spiritual Israel, the church). Assume this is right. So sometime later on, Jesus will arrive back and rule on earth with His people, the Israeletes. When is this going to happen? Is it before antichrist comes and rules on earth? In that case antichrist and his people that will come will beat (?) Jesus and His people?.If Jesus'arrival is after antichrist then we talk about the fight of Armageddon? But in Revelation John tell us that those beheaded by antichrist will sit on thrones and rule with Jesus, not Israel? Question. When is it that Israel with Jesus rule on earth?
About Judas now. Was he saved? I understand some christians in the US think he wasn't saved. OK lets make a research. Was he baptised? Was any of the apostles baptised? The Scriptures don't mention that but we read that apostles baptised in water other people. See John 4:2. Question. Can somebody baptise people without him been buptised? No. Can somebody been baptized and not be born again? The answer is still no. Next, Judas was sent with the other apostles to preach repentance and salvation to people and perform miracles. Preach salvation without him being saved? Does it make sense? So Judas was born again, got baptised in water, send by Jesus to preach repentance and salvation and perform miracles. I think any objection about Judas been a good apostle is not accepted. So what happened to him? The same that Paul feared he may happen to him if he was not careful how he walked. 2 Timothy 4:6-9. Same that happened to Demas too.
So my question still remains the same. When is Jesus with Israel going to rule on earth?
Anyway nice talking about scriptures, although disagree with each other.
Again I'm sorry I takes so long to respond sometimes on weekdays.
Just to do a brief recap because we can easily switch emphasis and loose one another.
We began this topic with REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY and yes we will have to lean over into eschatology.
But I don't want to loose focus on the danger of what that belief system presents Today!!
Our eschatology will test our hermeneutics, and also a test of our understanding of the Bible.
It will tie the whole counsel of God.
What we are discussing is rooted in these questions.
Is there a literal Millennium where the Lord will rule here on earth?
Or are we in the Millennium and the Lord Jesus is going to rule in our heart only.
Some say we have been in the Millennium for 2000 years. MILLENNIUM MEANS 1000 YEARS.
Satan is certainly not chained, look around you.
Figure that one out!!
The old Testament gives us a view of what is to come during this period. We have already discussed that.
By way of recap, The basis of the promises that we were discussing is does God make good on his promises to Abraham concerning a nation and kingdom here on earth where the Lord Jesus will sit on David's Throne and rule with a rod of Iron. or was those promises to the Church.
Now to be clear in our understanding, You stated I believe
Jesus will arrive back and rule on earth WITH HIS PEOPLE, THE ISRAELITES.
No. I didn't say that. We haven't got that far. I believe that's the CHURCH.
I believe the Nation of Israel will be driven to Christ during the tribulation!!
Then the Armageddon.
Then they will say Matthew 23:39.
They won't behold their Messiah "as a Nation" Until they say blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord.
Then the chain of Satan, "1000 Years". The Millennium period.
Sorry but I don't want to drag this on into eschatology just yet.
All the while I was Just trying to be clear and emphasize that we "The Church" is not Israel.
First I don't really know what the replacement theology stands for. We don't use this term over here.
Second, the millennium is to start after the fight of Armageddon as you stated. This is very clear in my mind. The kingdom of God starts in our hearts but there will be a literal kingdom during the millennium. As far as the rest you mentioned in your last post I think we are in complete agreement.. So what are we talking about? I think I've lost you. GBU
I had the feeling early on we had more we agree on than what we disagree on.
It's difficult to nail down replacement theology these days because they seem to keep evolving. Some say Israel rejected their Messiah so they blew it. One would say well what about the promises to restore Israel during and after the tribulation on into the Millennium. While noting many verses like Ezekiel 36:32-33.
In order to harmonize their theology they spiritualize everything they can't explain.
Some has went off the charts saying there is no hell, there is no Millennium, Everyone is going to be refined by fire and go to paradise.
You and I are going to be impregnated and have a little baby Jesus.
I use these absurd examples of what is literally recently being said to warn of the danger of using poor hermeneutics. It renders Gods promises and the work on the cross as worthless. The sacrifice of Christ was meaningless if there's nothing to be saved from. This deception is demonic!
Here's a precise article:
Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are spiritualized or allegorized into promises of God's blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2,000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1,900 years?
Thank you brother S. Spencer. That is the general understanding of Replacement Teaching, even as GiGi has stated. One might force Scriptures into twists & turns to prove that Israel is no more in the Mind of God & rejected of Him for their unbelief & condemnation of Jesus, but how are they going to convince the Apostle Paul in what he vehemently declared in Romans chapter 11? In fact in verse 1 alone, I can hear the echo of today's Replacement teachers: "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid...". Paul said, No, Israel has not been utterly cast off. Some others then & today say, Yes they were totally rejected (for such this chapter was written). Who should we believe? God's Word is Truth.
For pointing out the far-fetched hoops people begin to jump through to spiritualize erroneous scriptural ideas that are filled with false teachings and barely intelligible thought lines. Such make it difficult to have a truly Scriptural based conversation with such people. But we continue to pray for one another to come to the knowledge of God's truth in His Word.
And thanks for speaking about Replacement Theology as I was not familiar with it prior to coming to this site. So, now I can read up on it and become informed in order to speak to it on this forum. Being here has introduced me to so many theological ideas and doctrines I have not been exposed to. So I am researching these more and finding what the Scriptures mean concerning these so I can determine whether what is said is true to Scriptures or not.
Many of these doctrines have arose within the past century or so and reflect age old heresies refuted by the early church and others are just plain new ideas.
Others are doctrines that have been discussed among different camps for centuries since the Reformation.
I am learning so much here. I guess I have lived a fairly "sheltered" life among believers that hold to what is considered more orthodox beliefs (which I am thankful for), so when I read such diverse ideas I will then read up on these to learn more in order to participate well in a discussion.
You have been very helpful to me over my short time here. Thank You.
I read your reply to MI google search "Replacement Theology".
In a nutshell: Replacement theology holds that the Israel has been cut off from God completely as His chosen people due to their rejection of Jesus and the nation of Israel has been replaced by the Christian church for all time. This teaches that Israel is irredeemable and therefore, the covenants, promises, and prophecies given to Israel are now only for the Church.
Sorry if i made a confusion with Judas It was unintentional. When i said Judas was saved I meant in the beginning, after the betrayal he lost his salvation since he didn't repent.
Here we have those who wanted the Gentiles to be circumcised. A seal "Binding them to the law."
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Acts 15:7-11.
Did you catch what Peter said? He says we "Jews" shall be saved even as they "Gentiles" you would think it should be the other way around!! reminds you of Romans 11:25-26. Then James put it in sequence here in vs 16.
After this I WILL RETURN, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
This is all future.
Concerning Judas.
John 18:9.
That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
Judas had done already betrayed Jesus, but yet Jesus I have lost none!
Judas was never chosen to sit on the twelve thrones, Every time he was mentioned we were reminded that he was going to betray Jesus. Jesus called him a devil and a their BEFORE he betrayed him. He was never saved.
God bless you Giannis
I will be talking to you tomorrow.
I will not go through verses again since it seems me and you interpret them in a different way. OK we agree that the Israeletes will be saved sometime in the future. If I understood right you take prophesies from the OT about a kingdom of Israel with king Jesus as literal ( I believe this Israel is the spiritual Israel, the church). Assume this is right. So sometime later on, Jesus will arrive back and rule on earth with His people, the Israeletes. When is this going to happen? Is it before antichrist comes and rules on earth? In that case antichrist and his people that will come will beat (?) Jesus and His people?.If Jesus'arrival is after antichrist then we talk about the fight of Armageddon? But in Revelation John tell us that those beheaded by antichrist will sit on thrones and rule with Jesus, not Israel? Question. When is it that Israel with Jesus rule on earth?
About Judas now. Was he saved? I understand some christians in the US think he wasn't saved. OK lets make a research. Was he baptised? Was any of the apostles baptised? The Scriptures don't mention that but we read that apostles baptised in water other people. See John 4:2. Question. Can somebody baptise people without him been buptised? No. Can somebody been baptized and not be born again? The answer is still no. Next, Judas was sent with the other apostles to preach repentance and salvation to people and perform miracles. Preach salvation without him being saved? Does it make sense? So Judas was born again, got baptised in water, send by Jesus to preach repentance and salvation and perform miracles. I think any objection about Judas been a good apostle is not accepted. So what happened to him? The same that Paul feared he may happen to him if he was not careful how he walked. 2 Timothy 4:6-9. Same that happened to Demas too.
So my question still remains the same. When is Jesus with Israel going to rule on earth?
Anyway nice talking about scriptures, although disagree with each other.
GB
Again I'm sorry I takes so long to respond sometimes on weekdays.
Just to do a brief recap because we can easily switch emphasis and loose one another.
We began this topic with REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY and yes we will have to lean over into eschatology.
But I don't want to loose focus on the danger of what that belief system presents Today!!
Our eschatology will test our hermeneutics, and also a test of our understanding of the Bible.
It will tie the whole counsel of God.
What we are discussing is rooted in these questions.
Is there a literal Millennium where the Lord will rule here on earth?
Or are we in the Millennium and the Lord Jesus is going to rule in our heart only.
Some say we have been in the Millennium for 2000 years. MILLENNIUM MEANS 1000 YEARS.
Satan is certainly not chained, look around you.
Figure that one out!!
The old Testament gives us a view of what is to come during this period. We have already discussed that.
By way of recap, The basis of the promises that we were discussing is does God make good on his promises to Abraham concerning a nation and kingdom here on earth where the Lord Jesus will sit on David's Throne and rule with a rod of Iron. or was those promises to the Church.
Now to be clear in our understanding, You stated I believe
Jesus will arrive back and rule on earth WITH HIS PEOPLE, THE ISRAELITES.
No. I didn't say that. We haven't got that far. I believe that's the CHURCH.
I believe the Nation of Israel will be driven to Christ during the tribulation!!
Then the Armageddon.
Then they will say Matthew 23:39.
They won't behold their Messiah "as a Nation" Until they say blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord.
Then the chain of Satan, "1000 Years". The Millennium period.
Sorry but I don't want to drag this on into eschatology just yet.
All the while I was Just trying to be clear and emphasize that we "The Church" is not Israel.
God bless.
First I don't really know what the replacement theology stands for. We don't use this term over here.
Second, the millennium is to start after the fight of Armageddon as you stated. This is very clear in my mind. The kingdom of God starts in our hearts but there will be a literal kingdom during the millennium. As far as the rest you mentioned in your last post I think we are in complete agreement.. So what are we talking about? I think I've lost you. GBU
I had the feeling early on we had more we agree on than what we disagree on.
It's difficult to nail down replacement theology these days because they seem to keep evolving. Some say Israel rejected their Messiah so they blew it. One would say well what about the promises to restore Israel during and after the tribulation on into the Millennium. While noting many verses like Ezekiel 36:32-33.
In order to harmonize their theology they spiritualize everything they can't explain.
Some has went off the charts saying there is no hell, there is no Millennium, Everyone is going to be refined by fire and go to paradise.
You and I are going to be impregnated and have a little baby Jesus.
I use these absurd examples of what is literally recently being said to warn of the danger of using poor hermeneutics. It renders Gods promises and the work on the cross as worthless. The sacrifice of Christ was meaningless if there's nothing to be saved from. This deception is demonic!
Here's a precise article:
Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are spiritualized or allegorized into promises of God's blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2,000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1,900 years?
Galatians 1:8-9.
God bless.
God bless you.
For pointing out the far-fetched hoops people begin to jump through to spiritualize erroneous scriptural ideas that are filled with false teachings and barely intelligible thought lines. Such make it difficult to have a truly Scriptural based conversation with such people. But we continue to pray for one another to come to the knowledge of God's truth in His Word.
God bless you and all you do.
And thanks for speaking about Replacement Theology as I was not familiar with it prior to coming to this site. So, now I can read up on it and become informed in order to speak to it on this forum. Being here has introduced me to so many theological ideas and doctrines I have not been exposed to. So I am researching these more and finding what the Scriptures mean concerning these so I can determine whether what is said is true to Scriptures or not.
Many of these doctrines have arose within the past century or so and reflect age old heresies refuted by the early church and others are just plain new ideas.
Others are doctrines that have been discussed among different camps for centuries since the Reformation.
I am learning so much here. I guess I have lived a fairly "sheltered" life among believers that hold to what is considered more orthodox beliefs (which I am thankful for), so when I read such diverse ideas I will then read up on these to learn more in order to participate well in a discussion.
You have been very helpful to me over my short time here. Thank You.
I read your reply to MI google search "Replacement Theology".
In a nutshell: Replacement theology holds that the Israel has been cut off from God completely as His chosen people due to their rejection of Jesus and the nation of Israel has been replaced by the Christian church for all time. This teaches that Israel is irredeemable and therefore, the covenants, promises, and prophecies given to Israel are now only for the Church.
This was meant to be labeled part 3 on the heading.
Ir was meant to be read last.
God bless
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