When we study the word of God we see that from Genesis to Revelation the Boos is all about Jesus, Redemption/Salvation ministered by grace. Your strength is Christ!
Fruit of the spirit, "THE gift by the spirit. "Christ" is given to us by GRACE. Even your sanctification is not of yourselves.
The bible says it clearly that all wont be saved and there is a literal place of torment for those who reject Christ and THIS NARROW GATE!
Matthew 7:13-14.
HERE'S WHAT'S COMMONLY ATTACKED. "Just a few"
GRACE.
Some preach we're saved by works of the Law. " Which means there's no GRACE.
Christ deity.
This is attacked more than one way.
First of all We know how the trinity is being attacked. There's also those who claim we are going to be Gods.
Therefore there's no such thing as deity if ALL will be saved and we will be equal to God... ( Isn't that us how Satan fell? ) What's often misquoted about Satan is we often say Satan wanted to be God. But it says he wanted to be "LIKE" the most high.
Same type of pride we see here in this frame of mind.
The word.
How often do you see someone either doubt what is written or say the scripture has been tampered with? Some claim to have revelation that exceed the written word.
The Holyspirit.
The work of the Holyspirit and the fruit of the Holyspirit is what seems to be of no Interest in the Church today. Today we hear so often "He or She is full of the Holyspirit.' when observing an outward action. We need to have clearer understanding of the ministry of the Holyspirit.
Man can't manifest the Spirit through practice or mimicking some way of righteousness. This is what was to be shown through Israel and is what Paul is hammering away at in Galatians.
As you said this is nothing new, It's been going on for years.
These messages should be Christ centered.
When I first encountered this on a year and a half ago. Myself and others reasoned with this person to no avail.
He left the site for a few months then returned quietly looking for an opportunity or opening, I was curious to see if anything has changed. Once I saw there was no change and no message for salvation I no longer respond or read any of their comments, replies, or posts.
I've heard all their views, I'm sure nothing has changed.
There's no virtue from those who constantly reject scripture and besides they're not trying to win us over but they're trying to use us as a springboard to spread their message.
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Good wisdom from you. Thanks. We can always speak the truth without engaging in a back and forth in a separate post. I think that it is always good in a format like this to present the true doctrines of our faith, despite what others will present that are false and dangerous to believe.
Spencer don't forget Jesus said in John 14 : 17 He dwelleth with you ( among you ) BUT SHALL BE WITH IN YOU....If that good seed is sown in our HEARTS as our lord said...Then the Kingdom is gona be with in us...That New Heart and New Spirit is THE KINGDOM within us not among us...The mystery of the Kingdom of God is Christ in you...abide in me and i in you...Our carnal minds is his enemy thus in order to make his enemy his footstool he had to displace our old adamic nature with his spirit with in us.
.....He cd not make his enemy his footstool unless he was within us....As our carnal minds is his enemy....Thus we will have the mind of Christ with in US.....It has to be an internal kingdom with in us.
.....An external kingdom wd be no threat to satan as our carnal minds is his enemy which is internal...with in us.
...... MAT. 13 : 19 Says the good seed is the WORD of the Kingdom and the word is sown in mans hearts...Thus the Kingdom wil be in mans hearts no doubt.....That good seed is not sown amounst us...But with in us....ok gbu
I so agree. Scriptures are so very clear that there is only one God and that there will never be any gods besides Himself.
It is audacious to promote the belief in the deification of man. I think we should not desire to become gods and should really be humble and accept our position, purpose, and constitution as a creature. Creatures cannot change in their natures. men do not become angels nor gods. What a wicked teaching.
Spencer you do greatly err...Christ can only come into us by the new Birth,..Its that good Seed that forms Christ in us...And we are bornagain by that good seed, an intimacy...He has to know us..Thats y he always refers to himself as the SON OF MAN ...MANKIND needs to be fruitful and Marry Christ and bring forth fruit unto God... Romans 7 : 4 kjv...Being bornagain of an incorruptible SEED etc...MY lil children of whom i travail in Birth till Christ is FORMED IN YOU... Gal 4 : 19...When Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit thats the H.G. That Child of Promise that is Born in us via his good seed...THE LIVING WORD...Giving us a new innerman...Thats y Jesus is saying unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in NO WISE ENTER THERE IN...Thats y he always refers to himself as the SON OF MAN...Simply b/c mankind needs to birth baby Christ which is the H.G the Child of Promise..
.....And Spencer you mention that we cannot be Gods...When the bible mentions several times we will be married to Christ...And a marriage is when 2 are made 1...That was our lord's prayer that God wd make them 1 as we are 1... John 17... Isaiah 62 : 5 As A Young man marries a virgin so shall thy Sons marry thee...As the Bridegroom rejoices over the bride So shall thy God rejoice over thee.
.....Remember when he spat on the ground and made CLAY OF THE SPITTLE... John 9 : 6 ...His spit was his Word and the ground was humanity...He made a Marriage of the ground and his Word...The Clay was a new Creature...part God and part man...If any man be in Christ Jesus he is a new Creature...Mankind and God are gonna be enjoined as in a Marriage....Thus we will share his Glory....We are gonna be made 1 with God Almighty BY HIS Word...I have said ye are Gods... Psalms 82 : 6...Thus the seed of the Sower which are the WORDS of God that are gonna make us Gods...As Jesus said to whom the word came( his seed ) it made them Gods...And the scripture cannot be broken..SAYS OUR LORD.
Thank you, S. Spencer, the "new" doctrines you mentioned that are being touted by so many in today's churches and among believers all deviate from Scriptural and commonly held doctrines among churches and believers in past centuries.
But most of these 'new" doctrines are not really new, they are recycled ideas that have been repeatedly denounced in the church since the time of the Apostles and early church. Yet many people are sucked into these because they have been taught (either by self or teachers) to interpret Scriptures allegorically or spiritualizing straightforward accounts or taking verses out of context and the counsel of the whole Scripture teachings. Many people who hold to some of these ideas are hyper-focused on just a few Scripture they use to "prove" their thinking while ignoring so many other Scriptural teachings.
Whereas none of us has perfect doctrine, it still is important to speak out on biblical truths that are really essential to a true Christian faith. Thank you for being a defender of the FAith.
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
If we can't trust what's written so plainly....your words in a different post to Dianne . Isaiah Ch 14 V 4 . I do realise that many prophecies have a double fulfillment but V 4 is very plainly indicating that this chapter is about the fall of Babylon and it's king .
Hi , isn't the Lucifer of Isaiah Ch 14 actually the king of Babylon ? In my KJV , the chapter heading over Ch 14 says : A triumph over Babylon . That's what the chapter is honestly called in my AV KJV. V 4 : Thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon...
Hi Suze. You are correct, as you noted that Isaiah chapter 14 is written against the King of Babylon (just as Ezekiel chapter 28 pertains to the Prince/King of Tyre/Tyrus).
In both accounts, you will note that those monarchs were elevated to an incredibly high position, both in terms of their kingdoms (Babylonia & Phoenicia), their wealth & power, & also in their own eyes. Yet, we see some strange descriptions of them which simply cannot be applied to an earthly ruler (e.g. falling from Heaven, I will ascend into Heaven, exalt my throne above the stars of God. And to Tyre: having been in Eden, anointed cherub, perfect in all thy ways till iniquity was found in thee).
Some see that none other than earthly rulers are spoken of here, but others see the reason for their pride, belief in their invincibility, & eventual downfall of these kings as pertaining to the spirit that controlled them. It is as when Jesus spoke against Peter ( Matthew 16:23); Jesus was certainly looking at Peter, but heard Satan's voice coming through again (as in Matthew 4:3-10), a spirit pressing Peter to blurt out those words that were in opposition to Jesus' Words that the Cross was truly God's Plan. When one utters words that are contrary to God's Word, believing them to be true, those words are Satan-generated, for the enemy will always seek to distort the Truth (remember Eden?).
Even Jesus spoke about Satan's fall from Heaven in John 10:18, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven", though unsure whether Jesus specifically quoted the Isaiah passage. Yet, there was that occasion when Satan & his angels were cast out from Heaven ( Revelation 12:9; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6). Therefore, I too understand that those OT passages have references to both those rulers, but also to the satanic spirit that moved in them, hence the very specific references to Satan being cast out as well. And yet, Satan will once again manifest himself mightily in the person of Anti-Christ ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4).
Dear Chris , from reading your posts I gather that we believe different things and that's ok with me . Please note Romans Ch 7 V 7-25 , especially V 14-24 , no mention of satan , twice Paul says "sin that dwelleth in me " , V 24 : 0 wretched man that I am ! Who shall deliver me from...the body of this death ?
V 25...with the mind I myself serve the law of God ; but with my flesh the law of sin .
Romans Ch 8 V 1-17 especially : V 1...walk not after the flesh...(not lucifer or satan ) , but after the Spirit . V 3... "God sending His own Son in the likeness of...sinful flesh , and for sin , condemned sin in the flesh "
We are the flesh , we are sinful .
V 5-9 For they that are after the flesh ( non Christians ) do mind the things of the flesh ; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit . For to be carnally minded is death ; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace .
Here is my point : "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God ( not satan / lucifer , us , with our carnal minds ) ...so they that are in the flesh cannot please God . V 9 But ye are not in the flesh , but in the Spirit , if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you .
God is Spirit . The carnal mind is enmity against God...they that are in the flesh cannot please God .
Thanks for that Suze. I agree with much that you wrote, but rather than deal with each part of it, I would ask, What is the origin of our carnal minds? What was in Paul's mind when he stated, "the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God" Romans 8:7,8: where does this carnal mind/carnal life, lived in the flesh, come from?
Is this something God has given us from our birth, or has another intruded into humanity causing us to sin against God & that sin has been passed on to all generations? ( Romans 5:12; Acts 5:3; 1 Timothy 5:14,15; 2 Corinthians 2:10,11; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; Luke 22:31,32; etc., are a few verses showing Satan's activity, from the first day till the day he is put away, & our ongoing struggle to withstand him & his devices & to live in the power & joy of the Holy Spirit).
Satan is never absent - He is present - He is at work - and working in the hearts & minds of those who choose to live according to the dictates of their flesh & not in the fullness of the Spirit. Such were the gross sins of those kings mentioned earlier - if Ananias & Sapphira could have Satan gripping their heart so as to lie to the Spirit, how much more of Satan's control over those kings & indeed so many rulers/govts of today & their workings against Jesus Christ.
Chris do you not realize what you are saying...You are in essence saying that IF the Kingdom of God is gona be with in US AS our lord said....Then we are like satan desiring to be Gods...Does not Rev 21 : 2 tells us John saw the Holy city The Kingdom of God, That New Jerusalem as a Bride adorned for her husband....Oh but this woman is of the devil desiring to be God according to Chris.
.....Chris do you not understand that if the very Kingdom of God is gonna be with in us we will be Gods period...There is no way we cannot be Gods if the very Kingdom of God is gona be with in us...Can you not understand that we are gona be made 1 with God in a marriage of the lamb of God in Christ Jesus...Chris think b/f you make a statement like that...You are in essence fighting real salvation when ya make a false statement like that....All the evil rulers in the O.T. ARE LIKE THE BRIDE DESIRING TO BE God according to you Christ....but GBU
Alex. Well, if that's what you managed to glean from my comment, then I really have no more to add. If you begin to deal with the specifics of someone's comment (even a particular verse) rather than formulate your own ideas about the comments, then we might have a basis for discussion. I was writing about two kings & the satanic spirit that was in them & worked through them. What you've written has absolutely no correlation to that.
Chris plz forgive me, I love ya...You misunderstand me...i wd like to hug your neck....But Chris I can detect CONTEMPT in your posts on the scriptrues that say we are gonna be Gods...Am i right..But anyway...That was what i was getting at...I love the scriptures that say we are gonna be Gods...Like psalms 82 and John 10 etc...But anyway gbu .....((((( Chris )))))
We must have confidence and faith in the promises that have been made to us . I think that some people just don't get that we are going to be sparkling clean , God calls us His jewels , it's not anything that we have done for this honour , it is the gift of God for our faith in Him and in His Son and for believing in the promises that He has made . We will be changed , we shall be like Christ , real Sons and Daughters of God .I think maybe that this is just all toooo awesome for some people to get their heads around . A famous author once said "we are all of us in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars " . Much love in Christ .
When we study the word of God we see that from Genesis to Revelation the Boos is all about Jesus, Redemption/Salvation ministered by grace. Your strength is Christ!
Fruit of the spirit, "THE gift by the spirit. "Christ" is given to us by GRACE. Even your sanctification is not of yourselves.
The bible says it clearly that all wont be saved and there is a literal place of torment for those who reject Christ and THIS NARROW GATE!
Matthew 7:13-14.
HERE'S WHAT'S COMMONLY ATTACKED. "Just a few"
GRACE.
Some preach we're saved by works of the Law. " Which means there's no GRACE.
Christ deity.
This is attacked more than one way.
First of all We know how the trinity is being attacked. There's also those who claim we are going to be Gods.
Therefore there's no such thing as deity if ALL will be saved and we will be equal to God... ( Isn't that us how Satan fell? ) What's often misquoted about Satan is we often say Satan wanted to be God. But it says he wanted to be "LIKE" the most high.
Same type of pride we see here in this frame of mind.
The word.
How often do you see someone either doubt what is written or say the scripture has been tampered with? Some claim to have revelation that exceed the written word.
The Holyspirit.
The work of the Holyspirit and the fruit of the Holyspirit is what seems to be of no Interest in the Church today. Today we hear so often "He or She is full of the Holyspirit.' when observing an outward action. We need to have clearer understanding of the ministry of the Holyspirit.
Man can't manifest the Spirit through practice or mimicking some way of righteousness. This is what was to be shown through Israel and is what Paul is hammering away at in Galatians.
More to come, Hopefully with the Help of others.
God bless.
As you said this is nothing new, It's been going on for years.
These messages should be Christ centered.
When I first encountered this on a year and a half ago. Myself and others reasoned with this person to no avail.
He left the site for a few months then returned quietly looking for an opportunity or opening, I was curious to see if anything has changed. Once I saw there was no change and no message for salvation I no longer respond or read any of their comments, replies, or posts.
I've heard all their views, I'm sure nothing has changed.
There's no virtue from those who constantly reject scripture and besides they're not trying to win us over but they're trying to use us as a springboard to spread their message.
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Titus 3:10.
God bless.
Good wisdom from you. Thanks. We can always speak the truth without engaging in a back and forth in a separate post. I think that it is always good in a format like this to present the true doctrines of our faith, despite what others will present that are false and dangerous to believe.
Have a good night.
.....He cd not make his enemy his footstool unless he was within us....As our carnal minds is his enemy....Thus we will have the mind of Christ with in US.....It has to be an internal kingdom with in us.
.....An external kingdom wd be no threat to satan as our carnal minds is his enemy which is internal...with in us.
...... MAT. 13 : 19 Says the good seed is the WORD of the Kingdom and the word is sown in mans hearts...Thus the Kingdom wil be in mans hearts no doubt.....That good seed is not sown amounst us...But with in us....ok gbu
There's some that say we are going to be Gods. I believe this comes from pride, The same kind that caused Lucifer to fail.
We will be worshipping in Heaven not being worshipped.
We will bow our knees,
No one will bow their knees towards us.
God bless.
I so agree. Scriptures are so very clear that there is only one God and that there will never be any gods besides Himself.
It is audacious to promote the belief in the deification of man. I think we should not desire to become gods and should really be humble and accept our position, purpose, and constitution as a creature. Creatures cannot change in their natures. men do not become angels nor gods. What a wicked teaching.
.....And Spencer you mention that we cannot be Gods...When the bible mentions several times we will be married to Christ...And a marriage is when 2 are made 1...That was our lord's prayer that God wd make them 1 as we are 1... John 17... Isaiah 62 : 5 As A Young man marries a virgin so shall thy Sons marry thee...As the Bridegroom rejoices over the bride So shall thy God rejoice over thee.
.....Remember when he spat on the ground and made CLAY OF THE SPITTLE... John 9 : 6 ...His spit was his Word and the ground was humanity...He made a Marriage of the ground and his Word...The Clay was a new Creature...part God and part man...If any man be in Christ Jesus he is a new Creature...Mankind and God are gonna be enjoined as in a Marriage....Thus we will share his Glory....We are gonna be made 1 with God Almighty BY HIS Word...I have said ye are Gods... Psalms 82 : 6...Thus the seed of the Sower which are the WORDS of God that are gonna make us Gods...As Jesus said to whom the word came( his seed ) it made them Gods...And the scripture cannot be broken..SAYS OUR LORD.
But most of these 'new" doctrines are not really new, they are recycled ideas that have been repeatedly denounced in the church since the time of the Apostles and early church. Yet many people are sucked into these because they have been taught (either by self or teachers) to interpret Scriptures allegorically or spiritualizing straightforward accounts or taking verses out of context and the counsel of the whole Scripture teachings. Many people who hold to some of these ideas are hyper-focused on just a few Scripture they use to "prove" their thinking while ignoring so many other Scriptural teachings.
Whereas none of us has perfect doctrine, it still is important to speak out on biblical truths that are really essential to a true Christian faith. Thank you for being a defender of the FAith.
There will come a time when truth will be hard to find.
God bless.
Isaiah 14:13-14.
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
God bless.
I believe I answered that question in my original post, And Brother Chris gave much detail.
So my answer again is No it's not the King of Babylon.
Isaiah 14:12.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,
"WHEN WAS THE KING OF BABYLON IN HEAVEN?
son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Here's Lucifer in the Hebrew.
This doesn't describe the King of Babylon.
Hebrew:
Transliteration: hyll
Pronunciation: hay-lale'
Definition: From H1984 (IN THE SENSE OF BRIGHTNESS); THE MORNING STAR: - lucifer.
KJV Usage: Lucifer(1x).
Sorry if that widely held view bothers you.
We will have to peacefully agree to disagree. I'm moving on.
God bless.
Thanks for replying.
Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner.
Brother Chris gave a delivery I couldn't improve on. I concur with Brother Chris.
God bless.
In both accounts, you will note that those monarchs were elevated to an incredibly high position, both in terms of their kingdoms (Babylonia & Phoenicia), their wealth & power, & also in their own eyes. Yet, we see some strange descriptions of them which simply cannot be applied to an earthly ruler (e.g. falling from Heaven, I will ascend into Heaven, exalt my throne above the stars of God. And to Tyre: having been in Eden, anointed cherub, perfect in all thy ways till iniquity was found in thee).
Some see that none other than earthly rulers are spoken of here, but others see the reason for their pride, belief in their invincibility, & eventual downfall of these kings as pertaining to the spirit that controlled them. It is as when Jesus spoke against Peter ( Matthew 16:23); Jesus was certainly looking at Peter, but heard Satan's voice coming through again (as in Matthew 4:3-10), a spirit pressing Peter to blurt out those words that were in opposition to Jesus' Words that the Cross was truly God's Plan. When one utters words that are contrary to God's Word, believing them to be true, those words are Satan-generated, for the enemy will always seek to distort the Truth (remember Eden?).
Even Jesus spoke about Satan's fall from Heaven in John 10:18, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven", though unsure whether Jesus specifically quoted the Isaiah passage. Yet, there was that occasion when Satan & his angels were cast out from Heaven ( Revelation 12:9; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6). Therefore, I too understand that those OT passages have references to both those rulers, but also to the satanic spirit that moved in them, hence the very specific references to Satan being cast out as well. And yet, Satan will once again manifest himself mightily in the person of Anti-Christ ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4).
V 25...with the mind I myself serve the law of God ; but with my flesh the law of sin .
Romans Ch 8 V 1-17 especially : V 1...walk not after the flesh...(not lucifer or satan ) , but after the Spirit . V 3... "God sending His own Son in the likeness of...sinful flesh , and for sin , condemned sin in the flesh "
We are the flesh , we are sinful .
V 5-9 For they that are after the flesh ( non Christians ) do mind the things of the flesh ; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit . For to be carnally minded is death ; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace .
Here is my point : "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God ( not satan / lucifer , us , with our carnal minds ) ...so they that are in the flesh cannot please God . V 9 But ye are not in the flesh , but in the Spirit , if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you .
God is Spirit . The carnal mind is enmity against God...they that are in the flesh cannot please God .
Satan is noticeable by his absence .
Much love in Christ .
Is this something God has given us from our birth, or has another intruded into humanity causing us to sin against God & that sin has been passed on to all generations? ( Romans 5:12; Acts 5:3; 1 Timothy 5:14,15; 2 Corinthians 2:10,11; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; Luke 22:31,32; etc., are a few verses showing Satan's activity, from the first day till the day he is put away, & our ongoing struggle to withstand him & his devices & to live in the power & joy of the Holy Spirit).
Satan is never absent - He is present - He is at work - and working in the hearts & minds of those who choose to live according to the dictates of their flesh & not in the fullness of the Spirit. Such were the gross sins of those kings mentioned earlier - if Ananias & Sapphira could have Satan gripping their heart so as to lie to the Spirit, how much more of Satan's control over those kings & indeed so many rulers/govts of today & their workings against Jesus Christ.
Well stated!!!
.....Chris do you not understand that if the very Kingdom of God is gonna be with in us we will be Gods period...There is no way we cannot be Gods if the very Kingdom of God is gona be with in us...Can you not understand that we are gona be made 1 with God in a marriage of the lamb of God in Christ Jesus...Chris think b/f you make a statement like that...You are in essence fighting real salvation when ya make a false statement like that....All the evil rulers in the O.T. ARE LIKE THE BRIDE DESIRING TO BE God according to you Christ....but GBU
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