Bible Discussion Thread

I have a question's concerning the song 'O Come to the Altar' as it is an Elevation song and I am fully aware of the satanic spirits that pervade inside the Elevation and Bethel ministries, so in your opinion; what context is 'Altar' in reference to? Do you think it's strictly alluding to Jesus, or witchcraft etymology?

I don't know that song, but think its good to be discerning when it comes to singing words written by men. Saying the Bible out loud is safe as it's God's Word, but singing words written by men has the potential to mislead and go astray.

Example: there's a song with lyrics "Our God is greater, our God is stronger God, You are higher than any other."

This was confusing to someone I knew who came from another religion and said to me she hated this song, because instead of believing in one God, it suggests we believe in other gods. Secondly, it may come across as immature, cocky or boastful, like "my dad can beat up your dad" or "my God is better than yours". So, I understood that point and cannot sing such a song with a clear conscience.

There are many other songs that are popular in Christian radio that I also don't agree with, so I believe it's good to be discerning and take our words seriously and not fall into false teachings.

Generally I dislike contemporary Christian music as much seems to want to please the culture rather than worship God #1. I miss older music that just praised God with simple, but effective and clear words. Today, I see a lot of emphasis and attention on sound checks, song transitions, guitar solos, name brand speaker systems, stage lighting, and expensive gear designed for performances. But do broken people really need such materialism or level of professionalism? Broken people just need Jesus and want to escape the trivialities of the world and not see the same thing infiltrating in churches. Even some pastors try to dress and style their hair a certain way to try to look cool. I think all this is shallow. Emphasis should be on preaching the gospel, that's it. The more raw and less fancy the better in my opinion.

Other phrases from Christian songs with unclear meaning:

"Iraise a hallelujah, Heaven comes to fight for me" - Heaven does?

"these.bones.will.sing" - Bones?

Thk you for your insight. Like you I don't listen to anything contemporary Christian, I trust basically none of it. I come from small chapel churches with piano hymns and our voices clear in their volume for God. I had visited a Baptist church yesterday that I moved away from years ago and now it's all different, different pastors, different staff, no more piano but an organ, and a band with a young girl wearing a Paul McCartney shirt .. and they played this song for us to sing. This song, being one of the 5 new contemporary songs I have heard thus far.

I should also state that last year I went to this Baptist church's new online page as the lockdown was occurring and I found some things they were doing to be very secular, so my suspicions were further set off by the song... although I find it beautiful, I want to be sure in its intentions, but knowing where it comes from I thought it best to ask what others thought before I fully make my mind up.

Romans 14:4, John 13:34,35,

Hello Robyn. I'm unfamiliar with the song, "O come to the altar" or even Elevation/Bethel ministries, so I share this somewhat ignorantly. I did however, check out the words to that song & went through each stanza. I could not detect anything wrong with what was written; appears as a modern Gospel song with an appeal to come to Jesus for salvation. Even the tune was pleasant listening.

From that song title, I thought of Hebrews 13:10, "We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle", and admit that the song-writer may not have been thinking of this particular verse, though the message is quite provoking. "We have an altar", an altar quite different to what Israel & their priests attended to. There were restrictions & impositions placed upon them as far as what was sacrificed, where the beast was killed, manner of sacrifice, condition of the high priest, what could be eaten after the sacrifice & by whom, etc.

But "we have an altar", different to the one Israel approached - verse 12, "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate." Using this Scripture, I believe that the song implied that 'coming to the altar' was 'coming to the place of our Lord's Sacrifice'. The lines that are associated with the song are: "O come to the altar; The Father's arms are open wide; Forgiveness was bought with; The precious blood of Jesus Christ". We can understand that the altar referenced to in the song, is the Cross, where our Lord was stricken, smitten, God's Lamb sacrificed for us.

Thk you for your take/insight, as that is how I want to take it, but my concern of course lies inside the writers.

Is Your ALL on the Altar; Who is Jesus Christ.

You have longed for sweet peace, and for faith to increase, And have earnestly, fervently prayed;

But you cannot have rest or be perfectly blest,

Until all on the altar is laid.

Would you walk with the Lord in the light of His Word, And have peace and contentment always;

You must do His sweet will to be free from all ill,

On the altar your all you must lay.

Oh, we never can know what the Lord will bestow Of the blessings for which we have prayed,

Till our body and soul He doth fully control,

And our all on the altar is laid.

Who can tell all the love He will send from above, And how happy our hearts will be made,

Of the fellowship sweet we shall share at His feet, When our all on the altar is laid.

Is your all on the altar of sacrifice laid?

Your heart, does the Spirit control?

You can only be blest and have peace and rest, in the Spirit.

Mishael:There is no likeness or comparison to an altar to Satan. Curiosity into dark arts and meanings can open a door to Fear and Torments.

Acts 19:19 comment: rid your home of idols, and anything lewd.

Thk you for your comment, however my question is concerning what I know of the truth of the 2 ministries I mentioned, and because this song had been played at a church I attended yesterday. A church I hadn't been to for years having had moved away, and now has had a complete pastors and staff turn over. If you are not aware of wolves, I highly suggest you become aware.

I'd know, as I have at times, worked in churches doing things nobody else wanted too.

All I know that is true, Jesus Christ is the Head over all churches. Whether or not they are aware. They report to. Jesus directly.

It tells of it in the Book of Revelation starting in chapter 2. Jesus is writing to the 7 churches. That covers Pastor all the way down to the man who mows the lawn.

We all need to be mindful that our work ethic is unto the Lord. Back in the OT a verse starts with: Set Thine House in Order. I think that means everyone, from the White House down down to our dog's house.

We need to pray for our church. Jesus listens to all of our prayers. He is seated at the right hand of God: on duty 24/7

So first he's going to tell me to set my own house in order; and then I can discuss my church's house. You will in due time, see changes.

I know some churches run a loose ship, but one person praying for them, is no small act. Jesus loves his children!

He warned the Pharisees not to offend any child.

Stand in the Gap until it is closed.

Perhaps the question is better asked of the effectiveness of "altar calls" in the first place. I don't know the answer specifically; although it must be remembered for the wheat and tares to remain there has to be an element of truth in the worship for any poison to work more effectively. For those who wish to keep up an appearance; the preacher can quote those Bible truths convenient for say; a "prosperity gospel". Of course if the leadership is involved with a demonic entity; laying on of hands is dangerous. There are scriptural admonitions for those with true anointing not to be hasty in such matters.

In any event; whether one goes up to an altar or not; any genuine conversion must involve a transformation of the heart; and be a 24 hour a day; seven days a week lifestyle paradigm shift. For a mere emotional high; and the concerns there we only need to look at the parable of the seed and the sowers on those who immediately respond with joy; but have no root. And most get caught up ensnared with the riches and cares of the world; which of course makes such ornate places of worship cater to the tastes of those who for appearance sake like to be in opulent settings. There is a place for those who are pricked to the heart; and it does involve public confession of Christ by mouth and change in the heart as Romans indicates. This cannot be engineered along with all the other "healing ministry" miracles with God being a genie who shows up at the pastor's convenience. And with Steven Furtick wearing a David Bowie androgynous Iggy stardust t-shirt; that may be a more serious indication of trouble. Bethel; of course with it's out of control manifestations is clearly out of control. Better to run out of there than partake in communion with those into idolotrous practices.

Still; God can still do a genuine work for those who seek Him if they are called and chosen. But true converts won't remain where the Spirit tells them to avoid.

Thk you for opinion, it confirms how I feel about it, and I agree God does work within anything/everything.