Bible Discussion Thread

Hebrews 6:4-6. Does this mean we can lose our salvation?

There are multitudes in churches around the world who think they are saved but are not. There are many verses in the Bible written to church members as warnings against taking salvation for granted or resting in false hopes that will not likely endure or will be of no avail even if held until the end. True believers will heed the warnings against falling away and returning like a dog to vomit ( 2 Peter 2) and "will endure to the end" because of their everlasting faith.

Being saved does not give you a license to perpetually sin. Does not give you the right to go out and murder thinking you will just need to repent. I am personally so very glad that GOD is judge. HE alone knows what was in a mans heart and HE alone judges fairly righteously. You hear people say all the time once saved always saved. This is only true if you try with all your heart to do what is right, you can sin so much that that you lose your soul. People do fall back for the flesh is weak and without a spiritual awareness the flesh takes over. We have to live in this world for a short time but we don't have to be of the this world.

I was saved a year ago. However I am very lost at the moment. I am questioning my salvation. Also the doctrine I have been taught doesn't feel right. Dispensationlism seems to be adding to GOD's word in my opinion.

I am so confused as everybody interprets the bible differently.

Can the holy spirit leave?

can gluttony send you to hell?

so many Questions

Jesus keeps His own from "falling away" but He does not give young Christians immunity from sin. Never stop seeking His help, His presence, His mercy, and His forgiveness for sins and carnality. He will never leave or fake one of His own.

Hi Tara. If I could add briefly to some of your 'other' questions.

a. Dispensationalism. I don't believe that seeing different dispensations in the Bible is altogether wrong. It would be wrong if everything you read must fit (or, be forced) into a dispensation category to make the Bible work. Rather than give details on the various dispensations, I would just say that there does appear some clear demarcations seen that could be of help to us in correct Bible hermeneutics, but that shouldn't be forced upon one as an essential to understanding & trusting in the Words in the Bible.

b. Can the Holy Spirit leave? When one has truly repented of sins, turned to Jesus in faith, & being born again, the promise to us is that the Holy Spirit comes to reside in us: 1 Corinthians 6:19 (i.e. His Presence is there to give us new life, Titus 3:5, 1 John 2:29); a new nature ( 2 Corinthians 5:17); sealing us ( 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13); filling us ( Ephesians 5:18); & other ministries to guide, teach & comfort us. Yet, we can hardly fathom how intimately the Spirit works in us, drawing us closer to our Heavenly Father, & longing for us to be conformed to our blessed Lord Jesus. But if we step outside the Will of God, to disobey or to pursue a fleshly desire, then the Spirit in us will be grieved ( Ephesians 4:30), quenched ( 1 Thessalonians 5:19), outraged ( Hebrews 10:29), even resisted ( Acts 7:51). But does He leave us when we sin? No, He continues to minister to us bringing us to repentance, that we should call upon God to help us overcome & glorify Him in our lives. The true believer remains secure ( John 10:28), but we need to make sure we are indeed 'in the faith', experiencing God's Work in our lives.

c. Gluttony? Can be ranked with drunkenness or other obsessive, repetitive behaviour that slowly destroys the body God has given us. We need to take control over it, even if it means medical help & know that God desires our healing. It may not be sin, but can lead to it.

Salvation is not doing your best, it is having Christ's best put to your account through receiving Him by faith. Christ died for our sins on the cross, He was buried and raised up bodily from the dead three days later. This is the Gospel ( 1st Corinthians 15:1-4).

John 6:28-29, "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." Believe and the work is done, you are saved securely and eternally.

Being eternally secure doesn't give us a license to sin and sin doesn't go without consequence to the born again either. But God is merciful and just to forgive. Don't be confused by the multitude of doctrines, religions, denominations, and regulations men condemn you for in the name of a ministry; if your Faith is in Christ and your Shield is His Word (the Holy KJV Bible)...be at peace and know your Salvation too cannot be taken from you.

Tom,

There is nothing in those three verses that describe a saved person losing their salvation. First of all, an enlightened person does not mean that that person is saved. John 1:9 tells us that every person coming into this world is enlightened to the truth. But everyone does not have the same response to the enlightenment. Some receive Christ, and some don't. Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about those who were participating with believers, they were being enlightened to the truth, but they walked away from it. It doesn't say anything about them ever surrendering their lives to Christ.

We have people in our churches today, who look, and act, and talk, and believe just like a normal believer. They learn the language and learn the doctrines, and learn the lingo and say "praise the Lord," and they can learn how to put Jesus bumper stickers on their car correctly, and then one day they just disappear.

Did they lose their salvation? No, they were never saved at all and that is why they left. 1 John 2:19 says, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

John says the reason why they left us is because they really were not one of us, because if they were one of us they would have remained with us. This would fit in with Hebrews 6:4-6. Also, if we understand the Parable of the Sower, it helps us to see who the the writer of Hebrews is talking about. They are not saved individuals who lost their salvation. They were there being enlightened to the truth just like everyone else. It's how they responded to that enlightenment. They either received Christ and were saved, or they walked away from that enlightenment, never being saved. And Hebrews 6:4-6 says the fell away. That was their response to the enlightenment. They never got saved.

Hi Tom,

The verses do not mean you can lose Salvation. The doctrines teaching that Christians lose Salvation is Lordship Salvation from Calvinism and very contrary to true Christianity. The meaning of Hebrews 6:4-6: There were Christians that were known in this time who had heard the true word of Salvation and it's thought some even made a false profession to accepting Christ as their Savior. Deep down, although they follow Christians and went through the motions...they were not saved and their works (fruits of their Salvation) were shown as reprobate. Thus, this is why they were marked as fallen away. This is no different than Judas Iscariot who'd followed Jesus, walked with the other disciples, professed Christ but deep down had never accepted Him.

The great Bible teacher, Dr. Ray Stanford (1916-2012) said, "The moment you are saved, you become a member of the body of Christ. If you could ever become unsaved, part of Christ's own body would go to hell"

Think about that.

Also consider this, the Gift of Salvation is given of God to man through Christ Jesus. We didn't die for sin and set anyone free. Anything man builds or gives can be taken away. But, not the things of God. God will never and has never "removed" His free gift of Salvation when it's genuine. That's a Calvinistic lie.

The assertation that one can lose Salvation is the belief that one was saved by works and not by Grace.

If I cannot do good works to get saved, then how can I do bad works to lose salvation? Neither would have been saved in the first place and they would be those in Hebrews 6:4-6.

John 5:24 states: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

Jesus said in John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

Tom,

Jesus lays out in plain easy to understand words in his gospel, and throughout the scripture, how we shall actually receive salvation, and how he expects us to live our lives.

I believe this one small scripture - spoken by Jesus really sums it up:

John 14:15

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

If we ignore Jesus, he will not know us.

Matthew 7:21

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Jesus says point blank: Only those that do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven! So, if we are not doing the will of God - will we receive salvation? Jesus tells us no - we will not receive salvation!

Jesus is telling us that we must be obedient, and live our lives according to his Word!

God Bless.

First, I'm going to direct you to John 3; Jesus is conversing with a Pharisee that believes Jesus is from God. Jesus explains the person of the Holy Spirit (the 3rd person of the Godhead Romans 1:20 (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)

Jesus is speaking of the Holy Spirit. You must be born again. You cannot perceive him, unless you receive Christ as Savior and Lord. Your heart is a throne. Has the Lord been received? Water Baptism is an outward declaration by you, of an inward change. If we do not read the Bible regularly, we are spiritually at a standstill.

I have a testimony of my Pastor in Tulsa. God sent me to that Church, with driving directions. I saw a blessed Church. The teachings were anointed. I learned like a sponge.

That Pastor went to Africa, saw voodoo; Ate weird food given to him, met witches, called himself an Apostle.

And then I saw him on tv, teaching that there is no hell. His Dad was a happy fun-loving man, his mother was "church mom" very loving too. I think my pastor was freaked over what he perceived was "sin in the house." He judged "holiness" family that had occasional beer or cig.

All I know is that people will walk out on the Grace of God, for love. My Pastor lost his anointing; Oral Roberts and others rebuked him, he lost his house. It was bad.

Pastor is on YouTube teaching various subjects which are pure heresy. No Bible Truth. He became what the rest of Romans 1, teaches on; starting at verse 20-32.

We receive Jesus as Savior and Lord of our lives. His Love and sometimes, correction is not grevious. Jesus is Judge, so don't do any of that. It is Jesus who baptizes us after salvation. He gives to us, the Holy Spirit to be our Teacher of scripture. The Holy Spirit is precious to Jesus. Don't walk away and act like it means nothing. It should hurt us to even think of it. If we feel nothing, we left Jesus long before it actually happened.

Mishael