That is what I also believe! Tribulation and wrath is not the same thing. Christians has always gone through tribulation. The wrath of God is only poured out half an hour after the "Rapture" (Christ's return and our gathering with him in the clouds).
Revelation
Chapter 7
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Certainly not. Where and why are CHRISTIANS getting this?
Saints WILL NOT go through Tribulation. God/Jesus will NOT and CANNOT PUNISH righteousness.
Please think about it!
Thankfully, all you Saints that think you will go through the Tribulation are going to be elated and pleasantly surprised. Besides, aren't you already looking for Christ's return? You aren't saying, "God, hope it's soon?" We will be begging for Jesus if today's trend continues. The tribulation will be HELL on EARTH, as meant to be --that my friend is saved for the evil.
I am in agreement with you Douglas for that is what the Word states. It is my opinion that Revelation 11:15 indicates the last trump, and fits congruently with Paul's writings. With the voice of the archangel (Michael as indicated in Daniel is he who withholdeth). The devil's tribulation for 42 months precedes God's wrath. If you reason things out with scripture regarding the pre-trib doctrine of men, why doesn't the Bible speak of the third coming of Christ? Because the second coming is the Lord collecting His elect, taking flaming vengeance on the unbelieving, completing the mystery of God as indicated in Revelation 10.
The concept that the church is separate and distinct from the Jews or any other faith or religion is a doctrinal fallacy, each of us are graffed into the body of Christ as believers which is and was and is to come & the entirety of the bible is for ALL of us. The gospel from Paul was him expounding all of the old testament scriptures which Jesus fulfilled, not pontificating his own letters. Rightly dividing the word did not mean to pick and choose what you want, but to consider all things written when harmonizing the scriptures.
I woke up on Jan 2014, and felt compelled to study the book of Revelation. And prior to that I have never read the bible all the way through, just bits and pieces, and rarely go to church, but I got saved & baptized when I was around 10 give or take.
So I started studying revelation on my own, and I believe that GOD has been guiding me. I started reading revelation, but didn't quite understand it to much. And I felt compelled to go on youtube and do some research. So I did, and listened to quite a few pastors talk about revelation, but what some of them where saying, just didn't seam to coincide with what I had read in revelation, even though I really myself didn't quite understand it. But something kept tugging on my heart. Now when I started this studying, I went into it with an opened mind, but I always knew GOD was a GOD of "order" and keeping things simple.
So I finally came across a pastor on youtube preaching & teaching revelation. And I felt with my heart that I found the right pastor that GOD evidently wanted me to find, but it took a while.
So anyway, I felt like my eyes have been opened up, and now I'm beginning to understand the bible a lot better.
From what I understand now as in ( Acts 1:9-11, Rev 1:7, Rev 6:12-17, Rev 7:13&14, Matt 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Luke 21:25-28) kinda puts the rapture in the middle of the so called 7 year tribulation.
Doug sir, the descriptive background wrote here regarding this journey explains to me that you cast aside your opinions, understandings from men, church teachings, and asked the Holy Ghost to lead you in all truth. Because of this you can see more clearly what is in the Word I would humbly ascertain.
The "rapture" is a contentious item, (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, pre-wrath, no rapture and also inverse: removal of the wicked) I too sought answers on this. 1 Thes 4:17 The key word used in this argument is in English "caught up", in Latin "rapture", and in Greek "harpazo" G726. This same word in our KJV is used 13 times, some of interest in comparative study are Rev 12:5, Jude 1:23, Acts 8:39, John 6:15. We all have an opinion in this matter, but we are all in HIS body. Regardless of what we think, His Word will come to pass as He intends it too. Alleluia!
1 Thes 4:15 The key word here is "coming" G3952 parousia- par-oo-see'-ah
From the present participle of G3918; a being near, that is, advent (often, return; specifically of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physical aspect: - coming, presence. (there is no 3rd coming, we are looking for the 2nd advent of Christ which is this, the harvest)
Who is the restrainer? Who is he who is letting until he be taken out the way? Jude 1:9, Dan 10:21, Dan 12:1
It should be kept in mind; that the seal judgments are opened by Christ Himself; John wept when he saw that no one was worthy to open the seals. The death of 1/4 of the earth would involve 1.5 billion; with todays population. There has never been such a huge loss of life; whether that means everyone dies in a quarter of the earth; or more likely it is spread through the earth. These judgments in no way imply large scale warfare which seem to occur later in the trumpet judgments but hand to hand combat (sword) that also may imply ethnic type conflicts. These like later judgments are ALL after the Rapture and part of what occurs in the time of Jacob's trouble or the 7 year tribulation.
The trumpet judgments involving demons being released and lead to the beginning of the mark of the beast period in the last half of the Tribulation could be called "Satan's wrath" although that goes on to his failed attempt to go after Christ at Armageddon. Ultimately; Satan fails completely; all those who take the mark and are damned already were not in the Book of Life as preordained by God; so he doesn't succeed in drawing away any who were predestined to follow Christ. He is a tool in God's hands.
The judgments from heaven begin in the Trumpet period and are maxed out in the bowl judgments. In a sense though even the deception of the 1st Seal is by God's plan to deceive those who are of the earth so to speak. The real differentiation is when those who have taken the mark are complete and beyond the point of no return. Thus; after His chosen of Israel (1/3) go through the fire; and finally worship Christ at His second coming and all the fellowservants have been martyred there is no more chastisement through punishments; only wrath without remedy. I see the martyrdom as a quick way to bring forth fruit (Tribulum in latin). It brings the wheat quickly to harvest; i.e. those of His own not bearing fruit now before the Rapture; or new believers then.
The Bible at no time ever said the saints will go through the tribulation period. if you read the bible Daniel is talking about HIS PEOPLE THE JEWS. the church will be raptured. once the church is raptured God will go back to dealing with the Nation of Israel. The Assyrian Antichrist will kill the saints(Jews who come to christ) those who escape will flee to the mountains. they will call out to Yeshua to save them. Zechariah 14 says when Christ returns his feet will split the mount of olives. he will provide a path for the jews to escape.
Amen Juarez. The problem is, many in the modern church haven't read Daniel or about Bible prophesy well. The "no rapture" or "the rapture is simply the 2nd coming" even replacement theology which is like a plague in this discussion all come from heretic doctrines.
One of the strongest proofs of a Pretribulation Rapture is the event of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet in Daniel 9:27 and then again by the Jesus Himself in Matthew 25:15. This is the event when the Antichrist will claim to be god from the temple in Jerusalem, and demand that the world worship him or be killed. From this blasphemous event, it will be exactly 3 1/2 years until the Lord's SECOND COMING ( 2nd Thessalonians 2:4).
Since the Bible plainly states that no man knows WHEN the Rapture will occur ( Matthew 25:13), we must conclude that it will be a Pretribulation Rapture, because we DO KNOW it will be exactly 3 1/2 years between the abomination of desolation and the SECOND COMING.
1st Thessalonians 4:14-18, "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
All Christians will be removed from the earth at the Rapture. However, the Bible teaches that sinners will be saved after the Rapture, during the Tribulation Period ( Revelation 7:14). We read in the Book of Revelation that the Beast will make war against the saints ( Revelation 13:7). These will be people saved during the 7-year Tribulation.
Please read Matthew 24, & Mark 13, Jesus' words : Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, take heed that no man deceive you" ._.._.._.. Matthew 24:7-9, "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilence, and earthquakes, in diverse places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my names sake." ._..
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." ._.._
Matthew 24:21-22 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
And except those days should be shortened, there shall no flesh saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." ._._._.
Matthew 24:29-30 "immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
Also repeated in Mark 13,
Deuteronomy 4:30
Matthew 13:20-21
John 16:33
Acts 14:22
1Thessalonians 3:4,
Hopefully these are helpful in you study of the Word
Brother, I love you postings here on King James Bible Online but you're wrong. We are put through tests and trials (tribulations) during this time. But speaking of the prophetical 7-year tribulation -- all the verses you're quoting of "those" going through that would be those who knew God, they may have known what Salvation is, they may have gone to church or even graduated from a Bible college...but...they never truly were saved. They are left behind.
Revelation 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Jesus speaks a few things in that verse alone of the things to come. What is the hour of temptation = the insidious events during the tribulation (mark of the beast and temptation thereof) and even the enticements of the antichrist. Since WHEN did Jesus Christ state his church (the elect) would ever go through that? Never. People confuse those left behind trying to accept Christ during the tribulation for those already saved and raptured before it begins.
Rethink that modern theology is not right about their denial of the rapture or Bible prophesy but I can list (if you'd like) the myriad of member of the early church where they quoted a pre-trib rapture, wrote about it and died with that blessed hope.
The bible says that all the elect/saints/saved people will go through tribulation, even when Daniels 70th Week starts.
The first half is Satan's Wrath not GODS.
GODS Wrath doesn't start till the seventh seal is opened.
Am I right?
Revelation
Chapter 7
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Saints WILL NOT go through Tribulation. God/Jesus will NOT and CANNOT PUNISH righteousness.
Please think about it!
Thankfully, all you Saints that think you will go through the Tribulation are going to be elated and pleasantly surprised. Besides, aren't you already looking for Christ's return? You aren't saying, "God, hope it's soon?" We will be begging for Jesus if today's trend continues. The tribulation will be HELL on EARTH, as meant to be --that my friend is saved for the evil.
Wake up from your slumber --be ready.
In Christ,
The concept that the church is separate and distinct from the Jews or any other faith or religion is a doctrinal fallacy, each of us are graffed into the body of Christ as believers which is and was and is to come & the entirety of the bible is for ALL of us. The gospel from Paul was him expounding all of the old testament scriptures which Jesus fulfilled, not pontificating his own letters. Rightly dividing the word did not mean to pick and choose what you want, but to consider all things written when harmonizing the scriptures.
Real eyes realize real lies...
Respectfully,
Isa 61:2-3
1 Thes 3:4
2 Thes 1: 6-10
So I started studying revelation on my own, and I believe that GOD has been guiding me. I started reading revelation, but didn't quite understand it to much. And I felt compelled to go on youtube and do some research. So I did, and listened to quite a few pastors talk about revelation, but what some of them where saying, just didn't seam to coincide with what I had read in revelation, even though I really myself didn't quite understand it. But something kept tugging on my heart. Now when I started this studying, I went into it with an opened mind, but I always knew GOD was a GOD of "order" and keeping things simple.
So I finally came across a pastor on youtube preaching & teaching revelation. And I felt with my heart that I found the right pastor that GOD evidently wanted me to find, but it took a while.
So anyway, I felt like my eyes have been opened up, and now I'm beginning to understand the bible a lot better.
From what I understand now as in ( Acts 1:9-11, Rev 1:7, Rev 6:12-17, Rev 7:13&14, Matt 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Luke 21:25-28) kinda puts the rapture in the middle of the so called 7 year tribulation.
I would like your opinion,
Have a blessed day.
Thanks,
Doug
The "rapture" is a contentious item, (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, pre-wrath, no rapture and also inverse: removal of the wicked) I too sought answers on this. 1 Thes 4:17 The key word used in this argument is in English "caught up", in Latin "rapture", and in Greek "harpazo" G726. This same word in our KJV is used 13 times, some of interest in comparative study are Rev 12:5, Jude 1:23, Acts 8:39, John 6:15. We all have an opinion in this matter, but we are all in HIS body. Regardless of what we think, His Word will come to pass as He intends it too. Alleluia!
1 Thes 4:15 The key word here is "coming" G3952 parousia- par-oo-see'-ah
From the present participle of G3918; a being near, that is, advent (often, return; specifically of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physical aspect: - coming, presence. (there is no 3rd coming, we are looking for the 2nd advent of Christ which is this, the harvest)
Who is the restrainer? Who is he who is letting until he be taken out the way? Jude 1:9, Dan 10:21, Dan 12:1
God bless you,
Josh
The trumpet judgments involving demons being released and lead to the beginning of the mark of the beast period in the last half of the Tribulation could be called "Satan's wrath" although that goes on to his failed attempt to go after Christ at Armageddon. Ultimately; Satan fails completely; all those who take the mark and are damned already were not in the Book of Life as preordained by God; so he doesn't succeed in drawing away any who were predestined to follow Christ. He is a tool in God's hands.
The judgments from heaven begin in the Trumpet period and are maxed out in the bowl judgments. In a sense though even the deception of the 1st Seal is by God's plan to deceive those who are of the earth so to speak. The real differentiation is when those who have taken the mark are complete and beyond the point of no return. Thus; after His chosen of Israel (1/3) go through the fire; and finally worship Christ at His second coming and all the fellowservants have been martyred there is no more chastisement through punishments; only wrath without remedy. I see the martyrdom as a quick way to bring forth fruit (Tribulum in latin). It brings the wheat quickly to harvest; i.e. those of His own not bearing fruit now before the Rapture; or new believers then.
One of the strongest proofs of a Pretribulation Rapture is the event of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet in Daniel 9:27 and then again by the Jesus Himself in Matthew 25:15. This is the event when the Antichrist will claim to be god from the temple in Jerusalem, and demand that the world worship him or be killed. From this blasphemous event, it will be exactly 3 1/2 years until the Lord's SECOND COMING ( 2nd Thessalonians 2:4).
Since the Bible plainly states that no man knows WHEN the Rapture will occur ( Matthew 25:13), we must conclude that it will be a Pretribulation Rapture, because we DO KNOW it will be exactly 3 1/2 years between the abomination of desolation and the SECOND COMING.
1st Thessalonians 4:14-18, "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
All Christians will be removed from the earth at the Rapture. However, the Bible teaches that sinners will be saved after the Rapture, during the Tribulation Period ( Revelation 7:14). We read in the Book of Revelation that the Beast will make war against the saints ( Revelation 13:7). These will be people saved during the 7-year Tribulation.
Please read Matthew 24, & Mark 13, Jesus' words : Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, take heed that no man deceive you" ._.._.._.. Matthew 24:7-9, "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilence, and earthquakes, in diverse places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my names sake." ._..
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." ._.._
Matthew 24:21-22 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
And except those days should be shortened, there shall no flesh saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." ._._._.
Matthew 24:29-30 "immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
Also repeated in Mark 13,
Deuteronomy 4:30
Matthew 13:20-21
John 16:33
Acts 14:22
1Thessalonians 3:4,
Hopefully these are helpful in you study of the Word
Revelation 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Jesus speaks a few things in that verse alone of the things to come. What is the hour of temptation = the insidious events during the tribulation (mark of the beast and temptation thereof) and even the enticements of the antichrist. Since WHEN did Jesus Christ state his church (the elect) would ever go through that? Never. People confuse those left behind trying to accept Christ during the tribulation for those already saved and raptured before it begins.
Rethink that modern theology is not right about their denial of the rapture or Bible prophesy but I can list (if you'd like) the myriad of member of the early church where they quoted a pre-trib rapture, wrote about it and died with that blessed hope.
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