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Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 196168
What happens when people are abused in any format as far as why did it happen and how do you make sense of it? After experiencing something so terrible most followers before or non followers especially turn their back on God. I don't know how to explain this to the people I interact with because I can't make sense of the spiritual transaction myself. I've read Job and I feel that shines some light on why bad things happen to good people but otherwise I truly don't understand to such a painful degree.
I went through mental abuse and a couple other situations growing up myself. I guess the best appeal is looking at the life of Christ Himself and the fate of the Apostles. All who are godly in Christ Jesus will to one degree or another suffer persecution. ( 2 Tim. 3:12). Christ does turn all things for the good for THOSE WHO LOVE HIM ( Romans 8:28). This verse also shows predestination as to our faith and favor towards those who are ultimately called out from the world to be His children.
The best explanation I can give from my own experience is forgiveness; the love for those who are unloving is Agape love; and only found after we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us. Paul Himself from scripture was at least compicit in murder and imprisonment of believers until he was knocked down in the Book of Acts. We have modern day examples of those who survived the Rwanda massacre; and Corrie Ten Boom's tale of the Holocaust and forgiving his tormentor; as two examples of this. I was able to make some reconciliation on my end; and I know those who have also been through sexual and physical abuse that have seen restoration. It is important to seek prayer in these matters; and be an example of longsuffering.
The result will go one direction or another; but we at least will be free from the bondage of unforgiveness in our hearts.
We ourselves; of course need to be cautious that the besetting sins that pass through families don't affect us and especially that we don't treat our own children or others in that way. Only by the grace of God can we be kept from evil overtaking us; in one form or another. Our own suffering can bring empathy toward others unlike those who haven't experienced suffering like that; as well as have more than ample spiritual power to overcome. We must NOT look to the world or flesh for a quick emotional fix; or toxic relationships. We don't want the cure to be worse than the disease!
Hi Reneej55 , I had a very unpleasant childhood and my teens were only slightly better . I'd rather not go into details , I should have had some psychological help but didn't get any . I believe that God saved my life more than once and I believe that He preserved my sanity and that He still does preserve me mentally and physically . The experiences that I went through have taught me so many different lessons , I wouldn't know where to begin to tell you everything that I learned from the things that I suffered . I believe that all sufferings teach us something , about life , ourselves and others . I also believe that suffering helped me to be kinder to others . If I hadn't gone through the things that I went through I wouldn't know the things that I know now , God has brought me through everything , He was with me when I was a child , a teenager and He is with me now , moulding me into the person He wants me to be and who am I to question His methods ? As long as He stays with me I shall not be afraid . I think we must all learn to walk by faith not by sight , I'm still learning . Trust in Him .
One thing to remember is we are on Satan's planet. He and his minions coerce people to do his evil bidding. Bad things will happen until we die or Jesus comes to end it all. If we have repented and are saved, then we will spend eternity with God, and no longer will there be actions from Satan.
Dear Bible Answer Man: I disagree with the PostMil camp; but one saying a book with that doctrine states is that the church today often doesn't hold God to His promises in faith in the fact that the gates of hell will not prevail against His church. Satan has fallen as lightning from heaven; and although he rules in this world as ALLOWED by God he still has no authority over the church unless we cede it to Him.
Sadly; we also are living in a society that permits all sorts of evils and doesn't dole out the punishment that God allows those who are in authority to render for crimes. Evil is tolerated; hence continues to spread as a tentacle or spider's web. It is particularly grievous when those in the church (yes Protestant churches) allow abuse to go on because of some pride mentality for those in authority. Our whole society has decayed in a large part because we haven't stood up for marriages and family; and are no better apparently when it comes to divorce stats.
Those who truly are walking in the Spirit; and are producing 30 and 100 fold fruit; shining as stars and on fire for the Lord are few and far between today. When you see them; you know them if you are looking for evidence of spiritual life out there. Satan is said to be a roaring lion; but it seems he doesn't have to work so hard with today's many distractions on social media; etc.
We also need to recognize with international events in particular that there are judgments meted out and kings allowed to rule to fulfill God's purposes. As individuals; we can only bravely assist others who are struggling. Oftentimes that just involves a bit more giving for missions; and of course prayer seems to be greatly underdone these days.
So in conclusion; I agree that in some things we can only wait for Christ to come; but let us be sure that we are busy doing the work He has called us to do as ministers of reconciliation and fulfilling the Great Commission.
Well said, and I agree with your conclusion. The Spirit-baptized Christians today are ruling and reigning with Jesus and have the power to disarm the devil and his minions. The unfortunate part is church leaders aren't telling their members this. They need to get these baptized in fire Christians aware of their spiritual gifts and provide the avenues for them so they can exercise their gift(s) against the devil. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.
Millions before you have wondered this as people still will up to the catching away of the body of Christ.
Christians have been fed the false teaching of Calvinism and the allegorical interpretation of the Bible.
God is not controlling every aspect of our life.
Actually we have a free will and we make decisions every day that affect our life.
Other people make bad decisions every day that affect our life.
We life in a sin-cursed evil world and that world can hurt us on any given day.
Just like someone shooting up a July 4th parade.
The failure to rightly divide the Bible leaves many Christians struggling with this question.
Our Apostle Paul tells us specifically to EXPECT trials, tribulations and troubles.
God is NOT judging sin right now in this dispensation.
We should be thankful he is not because we are all sinners, even after salvation.
God will start judging sin again during the tribulation.
Bad things happen every day because we are surrounded by a sinful world.
Calvinism is wrong for many reasons.
God has a purpose for Israel and a purpose for the body of Christ.
Our decision is to get on board with what God is doing in this age.
You can only know this plan if you rightly divide the Bible based on who is being spoken to.
Christians that expect to never go through trouble get this notion from Israel's promises.
Paul is the Apostle for the body of Christ in this age.
Get your doctrine from Paul and you will understand these things.
Jesus ministered to Israel during his earthly ministry and told Israel their King was here.
His teaching all revolved around life in the kingdom he would rule in.
This is all Old Testament information promised to Israel.
God is not judging sin now because we are living in the age of grace only Paul speaks about.
The mixing up Gods earthly plans for Israel and his heavenly plans for the body of Christ are the reason Christians expect lives with no trials, persecutions and trouble.
I think you are right about the promises given to Israel are to be distinguished from the ones to the church. The promises given to Israel were mainly material promises, the promises given to the church are mainly spiritual. But I think you are not that right of whom is the Lord in our life. Satan is the ruler in the world of unbelievers and draws people to distraction. People choose to follow him and God doesn't intervene most of the times since people threw Him out of their lives. But in the church God is the ruler, the Lord, because we ask Him to be our Lord. So what happens in our life is due to God's permission. He allows things to happen. He can prevent them if He wants to. But for His own good purposes He allows things to happen when these things serve His plans for us. Surely what the evil people do affects our lives ie we have gone through world wars, believers and not believers. But still God is in control and we can face/fight all those with His help and be winners at the end.
In Matthew 7:24-25. it says
"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock."
The rain, the floods and the wind will come in one's life, but his house will not fall, because he built his life on the Word of God, on Jesus, on Father God.
I, for one, believe that Jesus is our Teacher (the ultimate "apostle" sent by God) to show us the way of salvation. His words are for me and all people, not just for the Jews. To replace Jesus with Paul as our main teacher is a slap in the face to our Lord who sacrificed Himself for us. Paul's teachings uphold the teachings of Jesus, not supersede them nor replace them.
You are free to believe what you wish. The Bible does not teach what you said. Church tradition teaches this. please do a word search on the word Gentile/Gentiles in the NT. Paul is your Apostle because the Bible says so over and over not me. Matt 10:5-6, Matt 15:24. The entire OT teaches that when Israel accepts it's Messiah then Israel would be a light to the Gentiles. This is what Jesus came to be; Israel's Messiah. When Israel rejected Christ, Jesus called Paul specifically to be the minister to the Gentiles, because Jesus did not minister to Gentiles other than one exception when a Gentile showed great faith. Rom 15:8, Rom 15:16.
There are a few on this site regularly projecting dispensational views, and much worse. Your beliefs seem to fall under the extreme doctrine of the Ultra-dispensationalists, as you certainly project negative views of long established Church doctrine, including claiming that Pauls gospel replaces the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So others may understand better, the following is a small excerpt from an article directed at the extreme ultra dispensational views similar to yours from "Got Questions answers to Biblical Questions".
The greatest problem with ultra-dispensationalism is not its teaching about when the church began but the many other errors that come from its approach to Scripture. For example, at the heart of most forms of ultra-dispensationalism is the belief that Paul preached a different gospel from what the other apostles taught. Other false doctrines common in some forms of ultra-dispensationalism include soul sleep and annihilationism. Still others proclaim a brand of universalism that grants salvation even to Satan himself. Without a doubt, whatever name ultra-dispensationalism goes by, it is a dangerous error that almost always leads to other, even worse errors.
H. A. Ironside, a strong dispensationalist himself, wrote a good booklet outlining some of the dangers of ultra-dispensationalism. In it he says that he has "no hesitancy in saying that [ultra-dispensationalism's] fruits are evil. It has produced a tremendous crop of heresies throughout the length and breadth of this and other lands; it has divided Christians and wrecked churches and assemblies without number; it has absolutely throttled Gospel effort at home and sown discord on missionary fields abroad. So true are these things of this system that I have no hesitancy in saying it is an absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth" (Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth, chapter 1, Loizeaux Brothers, 1938).
You and all others that want to project dispensationalism in a bad light say these things only because you read them from somewhere else. You like most others also don't study the position to actually test my doctrine as we are told to in scripture. I do not believe the things you commented on other than the comment on the different gospels. Different gospels is very clear in scripture. Paul says his gospel was a secret. Paul's gospel is Jew and Gentile on equal ground in a new body, something Jesus didn't teach. I teach the Bible literally and I don't need the word dispensation to do that, but its a Bible word no less. All I try to do is show people there is a different way other than tradition to understand the Bible. Most rely on tradition and theologians. I'm not interested in either. I teach the Bible literally. Jesus said he was only sent to Israel and I believe him. please don't tell the readers what you think my doctrine is. Your comments are about the Acts 28 position of dispensationalism. I am not this. I am a Bible believer. I believe the Bible as written, TO WHOM it is written.
This "ultra-dispensationalism is something new to me, having not been exposed to it ever in my life before coming onto this site. The errors you mentioned are serious ones and should be refuted. Thanks for the info from Got Questions. That is a good website that has helped me with so many things I wish to know more about. God Bless.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant (Christ), whom I (the Father) uphold; mine (the Father's) elect (Christ), in whom my (the Father's) soul delighteth; I (the Father) have put my spirit upon him (Christ); HE (Christ) shall bring forth judgement to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 42:6 I the Lord (the Father) have called thee (Christ) in righteousness, and (I the Father) will hold thy (Christ's) hand, and give thee (Christ) for a covenant of the people, and a LIGHT to the GENTILES.
Christ not PAUL.
Paul was just the instrument of CHRIST.
Isaiah had already prophecied that the Jews would reject Christ.
Christ came to the Jews first to fulfill PROPHECY.
Isaiah 6:9 And he said, Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not, and see ye indeed and perceive not.
Matthew 13:14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand, and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive.
Are you implying that all 4 gospels by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John are actually Old Testament? So the teachings in Matthew 5-7 are OT teachings? Didn't Jesus change the commandements of OT, by often saying "it was said in the old times...but I say"? Why did He change commandements that were valid for about 1500 years? Just to be valid for the next 3 1/2 years and then... end...the grace begins?(assuming that they were still OT teachings) Sorry but this doesn't seem right to me. Changing the commandements shows a change in Testament. Jesus came for the Jews really, to reveal them the grace that was to come and the commandements of God that accompany this grace. Later the apostles, mainly Paul, preached about this same grace to all nations.
Of course the promises given to Israel were actually different from those given to the church. The promises given to Israel were of the form "If you obey Me, then I will bless you with health, riches, possesions etc ...material promises, since salvation and eternal life were yet to be revealed. The promise given to the church is mainly eternal life through the sacrifice of Jesus, but still God is our Father that takes care all of our needs, material and spiritual. Of course we go through difficult situations in life but God promises that we are going to be winners if we rely on Him. There are so many verses about this in the Gospel and I am not going to go over them. I think you need to see the Gospel in a different perception.
The best explanation I can give from my own experience is forgiveness; the love for those who are unloving is Agape love; and only found after we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us. Paul Himself from scripture was at least compicit in murder and imprisonment of believers until he was knocked down in the Book of Acts. We have modern day examples of those who survived the Rwanda massacre; and Corrie Ten Boom's tale of the Holocaust and forgiving his tormentor; as two examples of this. I was able to make some reconciliation on my end; and I know those who have also been through sexual and physical abuse that have seen restoration. It is important to seek prayer in these matters; and be an example of longsuffering.
The result will go one direction or another; but we at least will be free from the bondage of unforgiveness in our hearts.
We ourselves; of course need to be cautious that the besetting sins that pass through families don't affect us and especially that we don't treat our own children or others in that way. Only by the grace of God can we be kept from evil overtaking us; in one form or another. Our own suffering can bring empathy toward others unlike those who haven't experienced suffering like that; as well as have more than ample spiritual power to overcome. We must NOT look to the world or flesh for a quick emotional fix; or toxic relationships. We don't want the cure to be worse than the disease!
May He richly bless you and yours. Rich P
Sadly; we also are living in a society that permits all sorts of evils and doesn't dole out the punishment that God allows those who are in authority to render for crimes. Evil is tolerated; hence continues to spread as a tentacle or spider's web. It is particularly grievous when those in the church (yes Protestant churches) allow abuse to go on because of some pride mentality for those in authority. Our whole society has decayed in a large part because we haven't stood up for marriages and family; and are no better apparently when it comes to divorce stats.
Those who truly are walking in the Spirit; and are producing 30 and 100 fold fruit; shining as stars and on fire for the Lord are few and far between today. When you see them; you know them if you are looking for evidence of spiritual life out there. Satan is said to be a roaring lion; but it seems he doesn't have to work so hard with today's many distractions on social media; etc.
We also need to recognize with international events in particular that there are judgments meted out and kings allowed to rule to fulfill God's purposes. As individuals; we can only bravely assist others who are struggling. Oftentimes that just involves a bit more giving for missions; and of course prayer seems to be greatly underdone these days.
So in conclusion; I agree that in some things we can only wait for Christ to come; but let us be sure that we are busy doing the work He has called us to do as ministers of reconciliation and fulfilling the Great Commission.
Millions before you have wondered this as people still will up to the catching away of the body of Christ.
Christians have been fed the false teaching of Calvinism and the allegorical interpretation of the Bible.
God is not controlling every aspect of our life.
Actually we have a free will and we make decisions every day that affect our life.
Other people make bad decisions every day that affect our life.
We life in a sin-cursed evil world and that world can hurt us on any given day.
Just like someone shooting up a July 4th parade.
The failure to rightly divide the Bible leaves many Christians struggling with this question.
Our Apostle Paul tells us specifically to EXPECT trials, tribulations and troubles.
God is NOT judging sin right now in this dispensation.
We should be thankful he is not because we are all sinners, even after salvation.
God will start judging sin again during the tribulation.
Bad things happen every day because we are surrounded by a sinful world.
Calvinism is wrong for many reasons.
God has a purpose for Israel and a purpose for the body of Christ.
Our decision is to get on board with what God is doing in this age.
You can only know this plan if you rightly divide the Bible based on who is being spoken to.
Christians that expect to never go through trouble get this notion from Israel's promises.
Paul is the Apostle for the body of Christ in this age.
Get your doctrine from Paul and you will understand these things.
Jesus ministered to Israel during his earthly ministry and told Israel their King was here.
His teaching all revolved around life in the kingdom he would rule in.
This is all Old Testament information promised to Israel.
God is not judging sin now because we are living in the age of grace only Paul speaks about.
The mixing up Gods earthly plans for Israel and his heavenly plans for the body of Christ are the reason Christians expect lives with no trials, persecutions and trouble.
I think you are right about the promises given to Israel are to be distinguished from the ones to the church. The promises given to Israel were mainly material promises, the promises given to the church are mainly spiritual. But I think you are not that right of whom is the Lord in our life. Satan is the ruler in the world of unbelievers and draws people to distraction. People choose to follow him and God doesn't intervene most of the times since people threw Him out of their lives. But in the church God is the ruler, the Lord, because we ask Him to be our Lord. So what happens in our life is due to God's permission. He allows things to happen. He can prevent them if He wants to. But for His own good purposes He allows things to happen when these things serve His plans for us. Surely what the evil people do affects our lives ie we have gone through world wars, believers and not believers. But still God is in control and we can face/fight all those with His help and be winners at the end.
In Matthew 7:24-25. it says
"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock."
The rain, the floods and the wind will come in one's life, but his house will not fall, because he built his life on the Word of God, on Jesus, on Father God.
GBU
Matt 7 is written to Israel not the body of Christ.
Israel was in a covenant relationship with God.
When Israel did things, God had committed himself to do things for them.
Israel's guarantees from God were always "IF" you do "THEN'' i will do.
In this age of Grace Paul tells us to expect bad times, persecution, trials. ect...
The promise from Paul is GRACE while IN the trials.
Paul never guarantees deliverance from trials in the age of grace.
Confusion comes from mixing God's earthly program and God's heavenly programs.
I, for one, believe that Jesus is our Teacher (the ultimate "apostle" sent by God) to show us the way of salvation. His words are for me and all people, not just for the Jews. To replace Jesus with Paul as our main teacher is a slap in the face to our Lord who sacrificed Himself for us. Paul's teachings uphold the teachings of Jesus, not supersede them nor replace them.
The bible teaches exactly what GiGi outlined.
There are a few on this site regularly projecting dispensational views, and much worse. Your beliefs seem to fall under the extreme doctrine of the Ultra-dispensationalists, as you certainly project negative views of long established Church doctrine, including claiming that Pauls gospel replaces the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So others may understand better, the following is a small excerpt from an article directed at the extreme ultra dispensational views similar to yours from "Got Questions answers to Biblical Questions".
The greatest problem with ultra-dispensationalism is not its teaching about when the church began but the many other errors that come from its approach to Scripture. For example, at the heart of most forms of ultra-dispensationalism is the belief that Paul preached a different gospel from what the other apostles taught. Other false doctrines common in some forms of ultra-dispensationalism include soul sleep and annihilationism. Still others proclaim a brand of universalism that grants salvation even to Satan himself. Without a doubt, whatever name ultra-dispensationalism goes by, it is a dangerous error that almost always leads to other, even worse errors.
H. A. Ironside, a strong dispensationalist himself, wrote a good booklet outlining some of the dangers of ultra-dispensationalism. In it he says that he has "no hesitancy in saying that [ultra-dispensationalism's] fruits are evil. It has produced a tremendous crop of heresies throughout the length and breadth of this and other lands; it has divided Christians and wrecked churches and assemblies without number; it has absolutely throttled Gospel effort at home and sown discord on missionary fields abroad. So true are these things of this system that I have no hesitancy in saying it is an absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth" (Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth, chapter 1, Loizeaux Brothers, 1938).
GBU
You and all others that want to project dispensationalism in a bad light say these things only because you read them from somewhere else. You like most others also don't study the position to actually test my doctrine as we are told to in scripture. I do not believe the things you commented on other than the comment on the different gospels. Different gospels is very clear in scripture. Paul says his gospel was a secret. Paul's gospel is Jew and Gentile on equal ground in a new body, something Jesus didn't teach. I teach the Bible literally and I don't need the word dispensation to do that, but its a Bible word no less. All I try to do is show people there is a different way other than tradition to understand the Bible. Most rely on tradition and theologians. I'm not interested in either. I teach the Bible literally. Jesus said he was only sent to Israel and I believe him. please don't tell the readers what you think my doctrine is. Your comments are about the Acts 28 position of dispensationalism. I am not this. I am a Bible believer. I believe the Bible as written, TO WHOM it is written.
This "ultra-dispensationalism is something new to me, having not been exposed to it ever in my life before coming onto this site. The errors you mentioned are serious ones and should be refuted. Thanks for the info from Got Questions. That is a good website that has helped me with so many things I wish to know more about. God Bless.
The PROPHETS, remember.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant (Christ), whom I (the Father) uphold; mine (the Father's) elect (Christ), in whom my (the Father's) soul delighteth; I (the Father) have put my spirit upon him (Christ); HE (Christ) shall bring forth judgement to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 42:6 I the Lord (the Father) have called thee (Christ) in righteousness, and (I the Father) will hold thy (Christ's) hand, and give thee (Christ) for a covenant of the people, and a LIGHT to the GENTILES.
Christ not PAUL.
Paul was just the instrument of CHRIST.
Isaiah had already prophecied that the Jews would reject Christ.
Christ came to the Jews first to fulfill PROPHECY.
Isaiah 6:9 And he said, Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not, and see ye indeed and perceive not.
Matthew 13:14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand, and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive.
God Bless YOU.
Are you implying that all 4 gospels by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John are actually Old Testament? So the teachings in Matthew 5-7 are OT teachings? Didn't Jesus change the commandements of OT, by often saying "it was said in the old times...but I say"? Why did He change commandements that were valid for about 1500 years? Just to be valid for the next 3 1/2 years and then... end...the grace begins?(assuming that they were still OT teachings) Sorry but this doesn't seem right to me. Changing the commandements shows a change in Testament. Jesus came for the Jews really, to reveal them the grace that was to come and the commandements of God that accompany this grace. Later the apostles, mainly Paul, preached about this same grace to all nations.
Of course the promises given to Israel were actually different from those given to the church. The promises given to Israel were of the form "If you obey Me, then I will bless you with health, riches, possesions etc ...material promises, since salvation and eternal life were yet to be revealed. The promise given to the church is mainly eternal life through the sacrifice of Jesus, but still God is our Father that takes care all of our needs, material and spiritual. Of course we go through difficult situations in life but God promises that we are going to be winners if we rely on Him. There are so many verses about this in the Gospel and I am not going to go over them. I think you need to see the Gospel in a different perception.
GBU
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