Bible Discussion Thread

Are you already predetermined to go to heaven or hell when you are born?

Hi again Mark.

The sum of it all.

God had the Gospel in mind before the foundation of the world,

Jesus Christ the Cornerstone and

the Apostles layed the foundation.

see here

Ephesians 2:19-22.

We are to build upon with precious stone and the blueprint was in God's hand before the foundation of the world.

see here

1 Corinthians 3:10-12.

Here you have all of what's involved in this building mentioned in Ephesians 2:21.

God had the blueprint in his hand before the world began.

God bless

Hi Mark.

Part 1.

I Agree with Brother Chris "God knowing beforehand the choices that we make & the way our lives will unfold" and the Gospel goes out to all, the invitation is for all, but not all will respond!!

1 John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Matthew 7:13-14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

Galatians 3:22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given TO THEM THAT BELIEVE.

Ephesians 1:12-13. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So let's make it clear

Romans 10:8-15 is what's relevant.

But look at verse 16. "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Here's my thought on this that I'm sure can be improved on.

Romans 9:11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) Here we have God's way that He Elected..

Next we have "WHEN" God's way was Elected.

Ephesians 1:4. According as he hath chosen us ( IN ) him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of THE WORLD...

You may find it easier to understand if we look at it as the church or the body of Christ instead of Individuals.

See part 2.

Part 2.

Please notice what's highlighted.

Ephesians 1:3-10. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places( IN CHRIST:)

According as he hath chosen us

( IN HIM ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted ( IN THE BELOVED.)

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER( IN ONE ) ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even IN HIM:

So we have a way and a body ( The body of Christ ) that was fore ordained before the foundation of the world that we have been baptized into.

God stands on the out side of time and sees the beginning and the end of the life of man like a picture. He's is foreknowing and his omniscience is not confounded by the present, It's future.

Psalms 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought AFAR OFF.

Example: Isaiah 46:10.

1 Peter 1:19-20 also tells us God knew Adam would sin. "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

No one is predetermined as you put it but God knows before hand who would come to him so by his foreknowledge he uses us as vessels as seen in Romans 9:21.

I hope this helps

God bless.

Jesus said if i be lifted up i will draw ALL men unto me....Thats y the New Covenant is ALL inclusive.... Isaiah 65 : 1 kjv...Thats y Isaiah is saying I was found of them that sought me not ( thats the world everybody ) I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me....( thats the world everybody )...weather we like it or not, He bought everyone of us with his blood ( that New Covenant ) ....Jesus was the farthest thing from Pauls mind but he saved him anyway...When he was least expecting it.

.....I will know them ALL but Isaiah saw this know them all as a knowledge that is gona cover this earth as the waters cover the seas....Which is an intimacy that is gonna result in a birth of Christ in every man....Thats y Jeremiah saw everymen with his hands on his loins as woman in travail and birth pains...We are all gonna birth a Baby Christ which is the H.G....The Children of PROMISE...I will know them all from the least to the greatest thus the Children of PROMISE THE H.G....The woman with Child....

Thats y he has to know us weather we like it or not....Simply b/c our old adamic nature is in rank with satan....God cd not care less what satan likes.

I agree with you I just hear a lot of people say God knows what you will do before you do it. Sounds like you really have no choice it is already determined what you will do. If Omniscience means all knowing how can it mean free choice? Don't get me wrong I know what Jesus Christ did for me and I will never let anything change that it is the non-believers I was wondering about how could I help change their minds if it is already known what they will do?

Hi Mark. I actually see God's Foreknowledge (of people, events) as separate from man's actions. I'm not saying that God can't superintend events to cause people to behave in a certain way (e.g. He can bring on a sickness or calamity that their minds might re-consider their thoughts or actions to follow a different path).

But if you're thinking simply of 'God knowing all things even before you do it', then that is correct, or else God wouldn't be God if He was deficient in all knowledge & all power. So, we can have free choice to do what we want, without God interfering in that choice, yet God knowing beforehand the choices that we make & the way our lives will unfold.

If we were not made human beings in the Image of God, but made as machines to unwaveringly perform God's Will, then yes, God knows what we will do (and must do) based on His design & expectation. And of course we wouldn't have sin because we were not designed to be susceptible to it. But we're not machines - we have the power to choose, sometimes wisely or unwisely - and when it comes to our salvation, the Gospel goes out to all, the invitation is for all, but not all will respond. Does God force that response (whether right or wrong) or does He know how that person will respond? If God predetermined who should be saved or lost, then the preaching of the Gospel won't be necessary, because whether a person likes it or not, he will be saved or lost as God determines. The Cross then is only to satisfy God that sin's payment was completed & redemption possible. The Cross won't apply to the sinner for he would be saved or rejected without giving a response.

One cannot 'change unbelievers' minds'. Only the power in God's Word & the Spirit can alert a sinner to the wretchedness of their sins before a Holy God. Let us be faithful to share Christ & His Gospel.

Chris you are wrong there is a lots more to it then just believing or our actions...Chris its the Cross that gives us this New Covenant that is all inclusive, smite the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the lil ones...And its these lil ones who are gonna lead us into ALL truth ...The spirit of truth is the H.G. that is gonna be born in everybody....Thats y Jeremiah saw ALL men in travail and birth pains....And its his blood the Cross that initiates our new birth these lil ones that New Covenant...Thats y he is saying Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child...Which is a baby Christ the Children of PROMISE the H.G. The New Covenant in his blood....This is the N.C. IN MY BLOOD DRINK YE ALL OF IT.

....Chris under the old covenant many were called but few were chosen....But under the N.C. Jeremiah 31 :34 ... I WILL KNOW THEM ALL FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST....Thats everybody...Simply b/c he paid the price for everybody weather we like it or not....Our old adamic nature wd neva like it,.. thats y he had to die for everybody while they were yet sinners....Thats y he said if i be lifted up ( N.C. BY HIS BLOOD ) I will draw all men unto me....I will know them ALL N.C....Which is gonna result in a baby Christ. fruit unto God....We are ALL gonna be saved according to the CROSS... He paid the price for ever man....But our old evil adamic nature is gona be loss....As our God is a consuming fire...Who shall abide the day of his coming ...who shall stand when he appears....Unless ya receive the KiNGDOM OF GOD as a lil child you wil in no wise enter there in.

.....Mans carnal mind is the very enemy of God....it is not subject to the law of God and neither indeed can be..Thus he had to die for ALL while we were yet sinners....He wants everybody to have the mind of Christ...Thats y he is saying I was found of them that sought me not i was made manifest unto them that ASKED NOT after me...Its Jesus who is gonna draw all men.

Dear Alex. We've been on this route before, hence my lack of responses to you. You believe that all mankind will be saved one day, even if it means some cleansing in judgement for preparation to salvation. You believe one is only born again at the last day in preparation for eternity. But you've never answered my questions put to you several times in the past, as to why should the Gospel be preached, if in the end God is bound to save all mankind? Why are we instructed to live holy lives now, dealing with sin, when eventually we will all be saved? You seem to propose some type of purgatory for full cleansing - maybe to attain rebirth.

I realize that I've shared my own understanding of what I glean from your posts, but writing about 'baby Christs, Father, Son & Grandson, God's Name is Abraham, Isaac & Jacob', & such like, I find in contradiction to God's Word. But then you would know this from our earlier discussions. I believe you're a fine upstanding man who loves the Lord immensely, but I find you provide near to nothing as a basis for any meaningful discussion. You're interpretations & spiritualizations are far to extreme & remote for me to even understand. So, if you're prepared to answer my questions at face value & not get into obscure interpretations, we might have something to discuss. So thank you for your time & God bless.

Chris let me give ya my take on Father Abraham he is a type O Father God that wants Children....Just as Father Abraham wanted to be multiplied as the sands of the seas...Its just prophetc that Father God is gonna be multiplied as the stars of Heaven...Thats y the sower of the GOOD SEED wants to sow his Precious seed in Humanity....That All the world might birth a baby Christ which is the H.G...The Son of MAN...As that which is born of the spirit is Spriit...An Israel of God that cannot sin simply b/c they are born of God...They are Gods,...As to whom the WOrd came it made them Gods...So we see that JESUS can reproduce himself in Humanity...Thats y he always refers to himself as the Son of Man...Thus we see thats its Christ who sows that good seed in humanity thus he is the Father of the Children...Spirits the H.G. Many ...Thats y i always said that Jesus is the FATHER of the H.G...Simply b/c the H.G. cannot be born without his seed planted in our hearts....Thats y he has to know US...Then he is GLORIFIED simply b/c he has multiplied himself in Humanity...Thats y he is saying whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me...Jesus plainly tells us Satan is the Father of the tares b/c he sows the tares...Which means that Christ is the Father of the wheat b/c he sows the wheat....And the wheat is a Baby Christ the H.G. The Granson...simply b/c the Sower of that good seed is Jesus the Bridegroom....Even in the natural the bridegroom is always the FATHER of the Child.

.....When Jesus breathe on them they received the H.G....But They had to go thru a gestation period....He said b/c i have spoken these words ( his seeds ) John 16 : 6 ...Sorrows have filled your hearts...When a woman is in travail she has SORROWS but after the Child comes her SORROWS are turned into Joy...His breath was his word which is his seed....She brought forth aman child that is gonna rule all nations....The Woman in Rev 12 is Pregnant b/c of his seed, His Breath..Her Child is the H.G.

Well Alex, I've read all that before, but it still doesn't answer the question using Exodus 4:5, 'when did the God OF Abraham, Isaac & Jacob become, My Name IS Abraham, Isaac & Jacob'? The point I'm making, & I hope you can see it, is that once we change a Scripture, whether its wording or meaning, then everything we might build on that Scripture will be faulty. So, why did you make that change? What base (or, rule of interpretation) do you use to alter the wording & meaning of Scripture? If we can find that God's Name IS Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, then we might have room to consider your other thoughts. Let us not attempt to re-write God's Word to suit our theology.

Chris sorry it took so long to get back to you...But Chris i neva changed 1 word of the bible....I wd neva change a word of the bible....Its just you focusing on Exodus 4 : 5....I was refering to Exodus 3 : 15 kjv Where God tells Moses that he was to go to the Children of ISRAEL and tells them that the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob hath sent me unto you...This is MY NAME forever and MY MEMORIAL to all Generations....Not 1 letter has been changed .

But Chris you should have a enough spritual understanding to see that this Abrahamic trinity is just a picture of God Almighty offering up his only son Jesus...The RAM caught in the thicket by his horns is just Prophetic of Christ and his crown of thorns

.....When Abraham offered up his only son Issac....Issac asked his Father we have the wood and the fire but where is the lamb....Abraham replied the Lord will provide himself a lamb....Do you not see that this is a beautiful picture of the Cross...SMH

Thus we can see how Gods name wd be Abraham Issac and Jacob....That initiated the nation of Israel.....But what GOD did at calvary is gonna initiate an ISRAEL OF GOD....That is gonna be as the Stars of Heaven in mutitude....That was the great Promise.

......Abraham means Father of a multitude...But its really God Almighty that is the FATHER of a multitude....Our heavenly Father is gonna be multiplied simply b/c of what Jesus did at calvary....God swore by himself when he made that Promise of multiplication....Thats y Jesus is saying to whom the word came ( that good seed ) it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken....The gift of God is the H.G. the Child of Promise the multiplication of God....We cd not refer to the H.G as the PROMISE if he were the NOT THE multiplication of very God IN HUMANITY....That Woman in Rev 12 is a picture of humanity birthing the Children of Promise the H.G the Gift of God to everybody....I will pour out of my spirit on ALL flesh....If i be lifted up i will draw ALL MEN unto me...GB

Thanks Alex. I simply used Exodus 4:5, in the absence of a Scripture from you. But I'll now refer to Exodus 3:15 which you gave, and that is, "And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations?"

If we focus on this verse alone, I can somewhat see where you get the idea that God's Name is Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob. Unfortunately, this verse doesn't stand alone; in most cases with Scripture we have to read around the verse addressed to learn the context & meaning. Remember when Moses spoke to God & said that when he goes to the children of Israel, they will ask him, "What is his name?" (v13). And God replies at verse 14, "I AM THAT I AM - I AM (hath sent me unto you)." This is God's Name.

Now to get to your type of 'trinity' (i.e. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, & then relating that to Father, Son & Grandson) shows an incorrect understanding of Exodus 3:13-15. I don't believe in the normal reading of these verses, that anyone would think of such an application & further developing into your beliefs. When God said, "this is my name forever", God was speaking about the Name he gave to Moses to give to Israel - which is I AM THAT I AM. But if one is compelled to force your interpretation to it, then God's Name is, "The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" - His Name is the LORD God, & not 'my Name IS Abraham, Isaac & Jacob'. So even here, you've taken out 'OF' & inserted 'IS'. So I see an important word change that you've made. And if you want to retain 'OF', then it equally makes no sense as God's Name.

Alex, please re-read that passage as given & not to support some variant theology that leads further away from Truth.

Brother chris:

and god replies at verse 14, i am that i am-i am

the whole bible is the gospel of the king(dom) of god, the old just a shadow of the new.

what does it mean when god says i am? i am: who are what?

the gospel is: there is only the life of god and truth of god ...... there is only: i am.... the king(dom) in you, his body.

man was predestinated to become the image of christ: romans 8:29

not many believe this, because man has demeaned the gospel of the king(dom) of god.

ephesians 4:4 ....one spirit .......

john 14:6 ..... "i am" life ......"i am" truth ....."i am" the way .....

revelation 3:12 ....and i will write upon him (my body) the name of my god .... i am (put your name here).

so now truth: i am; jesus christ.

i am; chris: the king(dom) in you.

i am: the being of every body.

ephesians 4:4 ....one spirit (the life of god) ....one body (man, that holds the life of god)....

revelation 3:8 ...and has not denied my name. i am (the life of every body)

i am; abraham, i am; isaac, i am; jacob ...i am; the life of man ...all creation is in birth pains waiting to be delivered: the new creation born again of (i am) truth.

1 corinthians 15:28 and when all things (in the ages to come) shall be subdued unto him, then shall the son also be subject unto him who put all things under him, that god (i am) may be all ("i am" life) in all (bodies).

genesis 3:22 ...behold man (the body of "i am") has become like us ....."i am" truth. life and the way.

we have to eat (i am) the tree of knowledge ....it contains both evil and good.

proverbs 16:6 by (i am) truth and (i am) mercy iniquity (deception) is purged .....

god will be all in all: isaiah 55:11

everyone; his children, is going to be called by his name.

god bless you.

Dear Q & T. Your whole comment seems to be based on Exodus 3:14, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." Until a clear understanding of "I AM THAT I AM" is had, your other developments of this "I AM", remains only a personal belief & opinion.

So what you suggest: "I am the king(dom) in you; I am the being of everybody; I am Abraham, etc, etc.", are simply the use of 'I AM" in other contexts, but avoids the meaning of "I AM" that God spoke about Himself & His Name. If God's Name (I AM) is applied to all & sundry, then we are all gods or equal standing with the Almighty. And I would certainly withstand such a heresy. If the "I AM" that God spoke is different to what you're suggesting, then the comments you made about it's wider application are irrelevant.

And just back to Romans 8:29: man was not "predestinated to become the image of Christ". Adam was made in the Image of God - he fell & that Image was marred by sin. Till the coming of Jesus, His Sacrifice & the reception of the Holy Spirit, no one has ever received the Image of Christ. Only those whom God foreknew who would come to the Cross in faith, did God plan for Christ's Image to be conformed to them (Gk. summorphos: to display a similar behavior from having the same essential nature). The world never receives this, nor will they ever receive that Image if they have not the Holy Spirit.

So, your use of "I AM" in those various ways you suggested and your understanding of Romans 8:29, I would disagree with. To suggest that God is/will be in everyone & all will be conformed to Christ's Image, is not my understanding of the Bible.

Hiya Chris GM...Sorry for taking so long to answer you... i just now noticed your reply...Sorry again....OK ...Chris God wants perfect praise thats the only way he will recieve any thing from man is by man being bornagain of an incorruptible seed...Outa of the mouths of babes and Sucklings thou has Perfected Praise....We are are gonna have a baby Christ which is the H.G...As that which is born of the spirit is spirit....Thats our new innerman the H.G. That cannot speak for a while simply b/c he is an infant...Remember Jesus said when he the spirit of truth is come he wd not speak of himself...Simply b/c he is a spiritual infant

.....Chris God cd not have told Moses that his name was Abraham Issac and Jacob and my memorial to all generations...If his Kingdom were a not a Abrahamic Type Trinity....When Abraham offered up his only son Issac it points to God offering up his son Jesus...Infact the ram caught in the thicket by his horns was a type of Christ and his crown of thorns....A 5 yr old can see this. So with this in mind we see that Gods name is indeed Abraham Issac and Jacob...FATHER SON AND GRANSON like Abraham Isaac Jacob...Just as Issac was the Child of Promise in the O.T....Now in the N.T. Its Christ that is the Child of Promise...Thus Jacob is a type of the H.G. the 3 rd person....That heavenly Jacob that Isaiah writes about in 49 is a spritual Jacob An Israel of God that is gonna be multiplied as the stars of Heaven...A spritual ppl that are gonna be born in humanity the H.G..The Children of Promise the multiplication of very God in Humanity via the seed of the sower.

....Christ you asked y should we preach now if everybody is gonna be saved....Chris ya gotta remember what Jesus said I am the light of the world BUT the NITE comes when no man can work....Impling a time of darkness.. That great falling away...The day of the lord cannot come till there 1st come a great falling away and that man of sin be revealed....Nothin can be done till the book is open.

Thanks Alex for your response. If I could nail down a few things.

a. "a baby Christ which is the H.G"; "That cannot speak for a while simply b/c he is an infant". So are you saying that we can't receive the Holy Ghost & being born again because He (the Spirit) is still an infant? So when are we born again? If we can't be born again now, how do you account for spiritual gifts, power to live for God, a longing to be with Him? A carnal man without the Spirit cannot enjoy these things nor desire them - they are foolishness to him.

b. can you give me a reference where God told Moses that His Name was Abraham, Isaac & Jacob? I only see references in my Bible such as Exodus 4:5, "That they may believe that the LORD God OF their fathers, the God OF Abraham, the God OF Isaac, and the God OF Jacob, hath appeared unto thee?" They never speak of God's Name being what you state, but that God is the God OF

c. I know that "the night cometh, when no man can work", which means we need to do God's Work while it is still 'day'. But my point was, why should the Gospel be preached NOW, when, as you believe, that the day will come when all men will bow down to the Lord, those alive & those who have died? If God has determined that all will be saved one day, why is there a need to share the Gospel with the unsaved - they're going to be saved anyway regardless whether they know anything about Jesus' Sacrifice or not, or whether they have given any regard to their sinful state or not?

Chris Its Exodus 3 : 15....God is telling Moses that Abraham Issac and Jacob is my name for ever and my memorial to all Generations....The reason God is telling Moses this is simply b/c there is gonna be an ISRAEL OF GOD....As Gal 6 : 16 tells us.

......And this Israel of God is the very kingdom of GOD in humanity.....Remember Natural Israel became as the sands of the seas in multitude....But this Israel of God ( THE MULTIPLICATION OF Christ Seed ) is gonna be as the STARS OF HEAVEN...Thus there is gonna be a heavenly Abraham Issac and Jacob and a heavenly Israel which are spirits the H.G. as the stars of heaven....Thats what Isaiah 49 is trying to tell us....There is a heavenly Israel coming...Thus his name is truly Abraham Issac and Jacob.

......The very reason God wants to multiply Christ in humanity as the stars of heaven...Is that there might be an Israel of God.

...A perfect Israel that cannot sin and Praise him perfectly...Outta of the mouths of babes and suckling thou has perfected Praise....Which are Spirits the H.G. many that are gonna be born in us sinners.

......A lil one shall become a 1000 and a small one a strong Nation...I the Lord will hasten it in its time...This is that heavenly Israel a heavenly Nation...The H.G...Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me.

Thanks Alex. I got that reference ( Exodus 3:15). You may have missed my reply further up the thread when you mentioned that reference rather than the one I took as an example ( Exodus 4:5). So in that comment I gave to you, I mentioned that you changed what God said (I AM the God of Abraham, etc.) to My Name is Abraham, etc. I realize you gave your explanation as to why you believe God's Name is Abraham, etc., but you haven't explained why you've changed the wording & meaning. Just to support a belief doesn't warrant changing a verse to suit that belief. A belief must arise from the Word given & understood in its normal sense.

Hiya Chris GBU....Let me just mention the Woman in Rev 12 that is in birth pains...Her Child which is the H.G. is that spirit of truth that is gonna reprove the whole world of sin and judgement Righteousness is the H.G. Emanuel....But her Child is the result of her KNOWING Jesus...A good seed was sown in this woman ( the world ) And thats how the manchild the H.G. that Child of promise will RULE ALL Nations the world....But her Child cannot speak for a season till he is of age...Thats y Jesus said when he the spirit of truth is come he will not speak of himself...As he is just an spritual infant...Remember what Jesus said....That which is BORN of the spirit is spirit...Thats the H.G. a living being the Child of PROMISE...Y is he the Promise ? Simply b/c he is the multiplication of very God via the seed of Christ as he is Spirit as God is spirit...A spirit has to be born in us, Which is our new innerman the H.G. Thats y he has to know us.

......OK Chris let me tell ya that you are mixed up a bit...We are not in the time of light we are in the time of darkness when no man can work...I should not have to tell you this....Just look at the SPIRITUAL CONDITION of this world and the Churches...Satan is now in the pulpits...Thats what the bible is trying to tell us the day of the lord will not come till there 1 st come a great falling away and that man of sin be revealed which is mans carnal mind that is in rank with Satan in the pulpits...

.....Jesus said I am the light of the world but the NIGHT comes when no man can work....Y cannot anybody work simply b/c the book has not been opened yet...Remember what God told DANIEL go thy way Daniel.. These words are sealed untill the time of the end....Nobody can sing that new song ( that New Covenant ) Till the book is opened that he wrote with his own Blood.

.....Yes the early Church had it going on but Micah 5 : 3 ..Said he was gona give them up till the Woman is in birth pains...Lover and friend has thou put far from me.

Alex, you have shared on two items that I referred to: the Holy Ghost & Jesus' reference to working while it is still day. I can't deal with both of them here, but will ask just one question to the first matter.

Revelation 12:1 starts with a great spectacle that John saw; that of a woman clothed with the sun, etc., etc. Question: Who is this woman? Unless, she is identified, the rest of your comment on this chapter may or may not change. You've already stated that the "man child" is the Holy Ghost, which I dispute. So to establish an understanding of this account, who is the woman? Thank you.

I believe the 'woman' is Israel

Brother Mark:

Meditate on these verses:

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that WORKETH in you both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

1 Corinthians 12:27 ...ye are the BODY of CHRIST .......

John 14:6 .....I am THE LIFE .......

Hebrews 4:10 For he that has entered into HIS (Christ) REST, he also has ceased from his OWN WORKS, as God did from his.

God Bless You.

Nope. Predestined refers to our walk. Calvinism twisted this into seeming like God only elected 'some' for His Blood and not all.

The Bible teaches universal atonement. Like it or not, the Word of God is our Final Authority, NOT Spurgeon or any other man. 1st John 2:2 reads, ""And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 2nd Corinthians 5:15, "And that he died for all..." We read in 1st Timothy 1:15, "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. The Word of God proclaims that Christ came to save sinners, not just certain sinners.

Listen to the plain teaching of 2nd peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." This Scripture clearly reveals that it is possible for ALL men to repent. God is NOT willing for any to perish. If Calvinism is correct, then how can you reconcile God's desire for all men to repent if He only predestinates certain of them to salvation? Calvinism makes no sense at all.

Furthermore, God never forces anyone to be saved. Not one instance in the Word of God is found where God forced anyone to get saved. Again, Titus 2:11 declares that the grace of God that brings salvation appears to ALL humanity. Psalm 19:1-3 clearly teaches that nature itself testifies of the goodness of God. Romans 1:20 teaches that God's eternal power and Godhead are CLEARLY presented in God's creation.

Brother Daniel:

As Paul travelled to Damascus he had not intentions of being saved, but it was his will that he was to kill Christ's children.

God FORCED Paul; to cause Paul's will, to BECOME GOD's WILL.

Paul is our EXAMPLE.

God's WILL, will be done.

What ever God has purposed for you, WILL BE DONE, and you have no say.

Did Jacob and Esau have a choice?

Did King Cyrus have a choice?

Did the King of Assyria have a choice?

Did Pharaoh have a choice?

No, the words were spoken of the path thy would take before the foundations of the world were laid.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, I have CHOSEN YOU ....

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter POWER OVER the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel of HONOUR, and another unto DISHONOUR.

MAN teaches FREE WILL, God is the KING of the Kingdom, and the KING'S WILL RULES ALL.

God Bless You.

No. In original Hebrew language, Genesis 1:1 reads: In Beginning. The writers added "the".

God first created TIME for mankind and other living things. So He sees inside and outside of time. He created humans in His IMAGE AND LIKENESS. He gifted us with freedom to make choices.

We can make good choices or bad ones. Like now, we can choose Jesus as Savior and Lord; and Jesus will Baptist us with the Holy Spirit. He teaches, explains and speaks to our born again human spirits. The closer we are to Him, the less volume he has to use.

I made that discovery on Genesis 1:1 because I was always trying to answer that one question that all scientists and scholars couldn't answer:

(TIME, FORCE, ACTION, MATTER). They couldn't produce a mathematical formula to explain 'time'.

I believe God gave it to us now, because a lot of scientists could be saved__IF__they can believe in God.

I'm having way more fun as a born again Christian. God says, seek ME.

Satan had no clue whatsoever that Jesus had defeated him once and for all in Bethlehem as a newborn baby HUMAN. Satan is a created angel. Not human. Earth was created FOR HUMANS. Jesus died for the sins of every human ever born; unborn in the womb, stillborn or miscarried. Heaven is POPULATED!!

You can meet this amazing God of Love in the pages of the Bible right now. Get a Reference Bible. It will take you to all the scriptures that will confirm or tell more story on what you're studying now. He will show you things that will make you say WOW!! Alot.

My son has a floor robot. It runs its path and scoops up kind of lint & stuff. That's what it's like for me, but I'm not a machine. I'm on a quest to discover all the hidden gems of wisdom hidden in all my ragged marked up Bibles.

Follow Jesus.

We all have 2 bodies, a flesh body, and a spiritual.

The flesh is of clay(figure of speech)God uses nature to teach,, and when it dies, it goes to hell, hell meaning(the grave)it returns to dust, whereas the spiritual body returns to the Father that gave it, which is Heaven because wherever the Father is that is Heaven.

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

When the clay pot breaks All souls go back to the Father

Ecclesiastes12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Clay is made out of dust