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The regular brothers and sisters here probably know that I believe Jesus is God the Son, because of what it says in John 1:1, 1 John 5:7, etc. I feel lead to defend Jesus when I sometimes see comments denying His divinity, especially if to influence newer believers, but I won't post again here.
My question is: do you believe Jesus as the Son of God has any % of God the Father in Him? If so, what %?
In human terms, most of us understand that when a father has a son that about 50% of his DNA and genes will come from the father, and 50% from the mother. Because there is no mention of the Son of God having a mother, one may presume that most of any inherited traits may have come from God the Father through some kind of miraculous act.
Basically, if you don't believe Jesus is God, do you believe that any % of God-ness may have been inherited from God the Father (and what scripture says)?
God bless.
And100% man.
I love you too Brother and it is always pleasant talking with you.
I haven't read much of the replies, I've been traveling, but I will when I settle down maybe this weekend.
However I intend to sit this one out.
Adam posted a question that I never heard or seen brought forward.
What % of God is in Christ.
The other side of the coin is What % of Mary or Adam and Eve is in Christ. We know all humanity goes back to Adam and Eve.
That's where it gets interesting. Adam in us have to die and we have to be born from above "Born again " in order to get an Ernest of the spirit. Christ didn't.
1 Corinthians 15:45-49. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have BORNE the image of the earthy, we shall also BEAR the image of the heavenly.
As you said, The glory Christ had with the Father is incomprehensible to us considering God is spirit and there is one spirit and Christ is in the bosom of that spirit.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, WHICH IS IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER, he hath declared him.
Our relationship to our father doesn't help us relate to that!
If we go back to our father we go back to a time where we didn't exist. The Glory of Christ in the father is from everlasting to everlasting.
It's interesting The demons and Satan seems to comprehend that.
God bless.
Thank you, be safe traveling, been there done that, don't get to a point you have to pull out your briefcase to verify what city you are in. Agree this subject can be set out, and agree with 1 Cor, 15:45-49 but also agree with Rom. 5:19. Same with John 1:18 John wrote this after Jesus ascended like John 3:13. I agree about the Father, but all scripture tells us of the Son is He is the beginning, nothing was before Him.
Be safe, and God bless.
RLW
Good to hear from you today.
I just wanted to speak about the verse that says that Jesus is the beginning of all creation.
Some think that this means that Jesus is a created being-the first being created by God. I do not think this verse is saying that.
I think that this verse is saying the Jesus is the genesis of all things-the source that created all things-the uncaused first cause.
Nice to hear from you. I do not deny the divinity of Jesus. I have never heard it put that way, the Genesis of all things. I'm sure your students loved you. I will say this without a ton of scripture, in my heart, I feel if I say Jesus is God, I will be denying the Son. My understanding is it is God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior, 1 John 2:23. I know you believe differently but I hope that makes sense. May we discuss another subject one day? I pray your walking is improving each day.
God bless,
RLW
Thanks for your reply. I taught Kindergarten and, yes, the students loved me, not because we addressed very profound things, since kindergarten is about laying the foundation for the basics, but because I loved each of them and drew out of them the known skills and potential that God placed within them to learn and grow. Many of the things learned in Kindergarten was a matter of taking something concrete and progressing to a more abstract level, which stretches the minds and capabilities of 5-6 year olds.
I so enjoyed being with my students everyday, watching them play and interact with their friends, working with each one individually on skills they needed to practice and receive further re-instruction, and teaching them as a class. We sang, danced, practiced counting to 100, chanted the alphabet each day. We learned to read words and simple stories, to write sounds, then words, then sentences. We learned basic number sense and also adding and subtracting, beginning geometry. We learned science principles and practices. We learned social skills and so much more that we packed into a day. The students were eager to learn and we got excited together over the simplest accomplishments that most people take for granted because our adult brains do not even have to think about these ideas or actions because it has become automatic to us.
My calling as a teacher was a delight to me and I was so blessed. One thing the is humorous is my husband and I sitting down with a stack of the children's writing to decipher what each was trying to say. This was a challenge. For instance: "fofajli" was "Fourth of July". We discovered that when we examined the picture and noticed fireworks. Pretty cute!
I look forward to our next discussion.
God bless,
RLW
On this site, and in most churches, I have gone to, seems this subject cannot be discussed, it is closed, and is nondebatable. There is a wall and anyone that does not place this creed or doctrine above everything is put outside this wall and not considered a Christian and is not saved.
Please don't be offended, because this is not directed to anyone, it is the doctrine and how it has divided. When it was written it is like the body of Christ, the Church, turned into the religion of Christianity placing this doctrine as the foundation and I am not a member.
In scripture, salvation is only by the grace of God through the faith in Jesus, who sacrificed and shed His blood that we have redemption through his blood, and only in His name do we have salvation and eternal life, if we walk in the Spirit, and in the love for our neighbor, and not in the world. The simplicity in the doctrine of Christ. This creed or doctrine that was created 300 years after the death of all the apostles overrides that.
I have said the Son of God was before anything, He is the beginning and the end. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, Jesus the Son of God is the beginning of creation, and everything was created through Him. He gave up the glory He had and lived a life in flesh. I don't think anyone can say what that glory was because no scripture tells us, we have to imagine what we cannot.
Do you have to say Jesus is God for Jesus to be divine? Show me scripture where it was taught that salvation is dependent on this creed or doctrine?
I will continue to post but not on this subject.
God bless,
RLW
Certain beliefs God won't or can't work. The basics are Romans 10:9+10
And to accept all that God accomplished through Jesus Christ for man and
All that is required is believing with your whole heart. There were times when
Jesus Christ healed and the person being healed didn't know who he was they
Just believed , same grace today. Walk in love teach with love and grace.
Thank you, it is all about faith and the heart.
God bless,
RLW
What percentage of the Father or Mary makes up the Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:28.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.
God bless.
Good topic, perhaps it would be best to create a new thread on this since this one that Adam began was very specific about the Deity of Jesus specifically to those who do not believe our Lord was God. It seems the thread got a bit tangential in places. And perhaps it is best as Who Do You Say That I AM speaks, to allow this thread to be responded to by those who do not believe Jesus is God. Maybe so or maybe not. But I want to be sensitive to others here as this seems to be a topic that elicits lots of emotional responses. I would like to see a thread on the topic of your post though. I would like to read what others have to say about this.
Have a good evening, Steven. Talk to you tomorrow, maybe.
Actually i think it fits well.
Adam asked, Direct Quote: "My question is: do you believe Jesus as the Son of God has any % of God the Father in Him? If so, what %?"
Now we who believe Christ has no beginning, we're in contrast with those who believe Jesus BECAME a son at the birth of Mary.
Here in 1 Corinthians 15:28. Paul states "THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL." This emphasizes CHRIST/EMANUEL/GOD WITH US is returning to his Glory he had with the Father before the beginning of the world! It echoes this;
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5.
( O FATHER, GLORIFY THOU ME WITH THINE OWN SELF ) Is an amazing statement! We know God shares his Glory with NO MAN! 100% God!
1 Corinthians 15:28. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL. suggests Christ is a 100% of God.
God bless.
What a wonderful post that answers other questions pending on which view you take!
Like if Jesus is 100% God could he have sinned? Maybe that should be on a different thread, so I want ask that. lol.
God bless.
Feel free to begin a new thread. I am interested in hearing what others say on this.
We have had discussions before and have called each other brother that I am honored to be. I think you know I do not believe Jesus became a son at the birth of Mary, for everything was created through Him. I replied to the thread of what Adam posted but it does not show under all, if you would like to read it.
I love every one of you guys, the question, what % of God was Jesus? God is from eternity nothing was before Him, so shouldn't the question be what % of God are we? Nothing existed before Him, and all came from Him.
The glory before the world was? Jesus the Son of God was before all, Col. 1:16 through Him was all created. Was that from eternity or the beginning of creation does scripture really tell us? Like John 1:1 In the beginning. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last, the beginning and the end. What division has this created?
Like in the other post I said, He gave up the glory He had and lived a life in the flesh that only could fulfill the law. God could not because He is incapable of sin. I don't think anyone can say what was the glory He gave up was because no scripture tells us (speculation), we have to imagine what we cannot, truth is simple, not complicated, but we know He will return in the glory of his Father, Matt. 16:27.
Love all of you guys,
God bless,
RLW
Actually Jesus isn't the Son of God. Christ is. Who is Christ except God's Son as He created Him. And what is Jesus except the Christ in Him. Jesus' appeared, took on the form, was in the likeness, being found in fashion of a body. Philippians 2:7,8. His reality is Spirit, since His Father is Spirit. John 4:24. We know what James 3:11,12 says. To paraphrase, woolly mammoths don't produce rabbits, and neither do redwood trees produce poppies. We know also flesh can't produce spirit. It is highly illogical Spirit producing flesh. God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all 1 John 1:5. Light does not produce darkness, only Light. God is Love 1 John 4:8. Love creates Itself and nothing but Itself. The truth of Jesus is not a body, but Christ, Who like God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, wholly loving and wholly lovable. Jesus, who appeared as a body has the Mind (Spirit) of Christ. Jesus (his Mind) has nothing that does not come from God; the difference between both me and you now is that He has nothing else. So yes, Christ is God: 100%! The flesh profits nothing. John 6:63. Where in the Scriptures does it say God is a body; and they that worship Him must worship Him in body and in truth?
And yes, Christ is God's Son, an extension and complete sharing of God's Self (Mind). The Trinity in It's Oneness transcends the sum of It's parts. They are One.
Peace be with you
God Is
I believe that the truth of Jesus Christ is that He is both God and Man in one Person, so the truth of who He truly is involves a human nature with a body (which He still has in heaven-He rose bodily and ascended to heaven bodily). A person is not a human without a body, soul, and spirit. The truth of Jesus also involves His Deity as the eternal Son of God whom the Father sent to become human, God in human flesh. The Son of God existed eternally with the Father prior to the Incarnation. See John chapter 1 and Micah 5:2 and Isaiah 90:2. He did not cease to be God when He was incarnated since God cannot ever cease to exist, rather He added humanity to His divinity, possessing two natures (human and divine) in one person.
The humanity of Jesus Christ, Son of God, had a beginning at conception, but His Deity is eternal, from everlasting to everlasting, just as the Father is eternal in the same way. Just as the Spirit is in the same way. I believe that Jesus Christ, the son of God and the Son of Man was 100% human equally 100% God, that in him are two natures that are not mixed to form a third type of nature. These two natures are distinct, yet unified in Him.
I believe that Jesus as the God/Man is the perfect Person to bring us to God, the Father, the perfect mediator between God and Man. A human being, even if perfect, could never bring Himself to God let alone anyone else, only God can effect this communion between Himself and His creatures. And only a human who lives a perfect life can be the spotless sacrifice for the sins of the world. And also, only God can be the priceless sacrifice that can take on the sins of the whole world and the fullness of God's wrath for sin as well as forgive sins. So, Jesus, as our Savior is God and man and only in such a way is He fully able to wrought salvation for all who believe in Him in Spirit and in Truth.
This is most certainly what I believe along with millions upon millions of Christians before me.
If you have been reading this site for the past few weeks, you would know that this topic was discussed very thoroughly be people posting on both sides of this issue. Adam (and others) posted lengthy Scriptural references that supported his view of the deity of Jesus. Those who thought the other way zipped right past the Scripture references Adam and others posted to post the Scripture that supported their view that Jesus was not God. When Adam (and others ) asks these posters who believed that Jesus was not God to speak to the Scriptures Adam and others posted to support the deity of Jesus, none of the posters spoke to these Scriptures. So this is most likely why Adam asked the question as he did. He was giving those who deny the deity of Christ the invitation to make their case without any rebuttal from himself, since he had already posted rebuttals already in the thread of the previous discussion. I do not think that Adam had any nefarious reasons to ask this question.
As for Grae, he often posts his beliefs and states that he does not want to have a discussion or debate on the topic and asks that people do not post replies back to him if they were to counter his belief. I will say that Grae is free to request this when he posts. He has his reasons for posting as he does.
I think it is very good to have serious discourse about biblical topics and that the discourse should be focused on the topic and Scriptural reasoning avoiding personal insults, attacks on one's character, or questioning of one's faith or standing before God.
I do think that it is fair to label another's belief as unorthodox or false or heretical if it has been historically viewed as such. I do think that we can follow through with a discourse and in the end state that we stand firm in our belief and the other person is free to do so also and to admit that the discourse appears to have come to an end as each person has thoroughly presented their view in a non-hostile way.
Understood. I just thought that Adam posed the question and was going to step back and listen to the viewpoints of those he was soliciting a response from.
I do understand the open forum thing but I also have to respect his request on who he wanted responses from. Again, I am on his side in his belief on who Jesus is, and I'm sure you are also.
In reading your last reply to me I went back and reread the thread and I do not see that anyone responded to Grae by countering his post before he lamented about being "barracked" by those who do not share his view. But from that response by Grae, he received a few responses from others speaking to his post to Adam (not me). Then Grae countered back.
I do not think that Adam's request necessarily excluded others from responding to those who responded to Adam. That was not stated by Adam.
I appreciate that Grae and others have explained their viewpoint on this thread. But I do not think it is healthy for the "congregation" on this site to just speak one's point of view and verbalize that one is not open to responses or discussion. That is why we respond to others. We care about one another and want to press on for the truth especially concerning key essential beliefs as Chris has named.
Thank you for responding to me. I appreciate the conversations we can have on this site and am blessed daily as I participate. I hope that you will also be equally as blessed as I am.
His father revealed to Peter that he was God's son.
Yet, for two clear reasons, no-one can not expect some response: this is the very nature of this Site & particularly this Page, and the very nature of our Textbook demands that Truth be shared & error exposed. Some may not find this important but I feel that if the apostles exposed false teachers & their errors to keep the fledgling Church on a straight course, we too must be duty-bound to do so as well. And the only way for us to do this is by bringing out pertinent Scripture & engaging in wholesome Spirit-led discussion. The evils of gnosticism & docetism was prevalent then, invading the Church & corrupting the Word & sadly it's still very much evident today.
Will end this here as my passion for defending the Person of Jesus Christ & God's great Sacrifice in the offering up of Himself as the only true measure of that Love, will extend this submission to a much greater length. Thank you for your stand for the Truth dear sister.
I agree that both Adam and Grae did not want to discuss this topic beyond what they posted. I think that they had different reasons for desiring this lack of discussion, but I truly cannot know what is in anyone's mind and heart. I would love to hear their individual explanations.
I also agree, that as this is the discussion page on this site, posting on this page, responses should be expected and I would say welcome, but not everyone wants such responses.
For me, I have learned so much from participating in discourse on this site. I have found new ways to think and discuss the tenets of our faith as well as have been challenged by the views that differ from my to go back to the Scriptures and verify if they or I have interpreted it correctly or even if the Scripture even says what I or those who do not share the same point of view say the Scriptures say in the context of the verse within the chapter or account. Also, these discussion bring up questions or prompt me to investigate a topic or doctrine further by researching reputable sites to review view points. So, all of this has enriched me in my faith and knowledge of the triune God, the salvation we have in our Lord, Jesus Christ, the deepening of my relationship with our Savior, Jesus, and our Heavenly Father through the working of the Holy Spirit who lives within me.
What a marvelous journey!
Rather, the Greek for that phrase states that 'Jesus, as a Man having been SENT FORTH (revealed, declared) by God to you by miracles, signs, etc.'. This is the meaning rather than a special Man requiring God's Approval & proved it by working miracles. Reading it in the Greek (translation) alters our understanding markedly to what Peter was trying to show. I wonder whether this was the portion you highlighted to the minister, or was it something else?
So, instead of this passage showing Jesus as just a man, it shows that He is, indeed, man, but also Lord, (Adonai) thereforem divine.
Gen 11 (who is the "us" in verse 7....trinity perhaps)(also, note LORD in all caps and then refer to Rev 19:16 "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS......that is Jesus as well) Jesus came down and confounded the language in His spiritual form.
[1] And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
[2] And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
[3] And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
[4] And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
[5] And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
[6] And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
[7] Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
[8] So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
[9] Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
Prov 8
[22] The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
[26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
[28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
[29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
we who are born again were in Gods foreknowledge or mind since the foundation of the world eph. 1:1:4 because God is
omnipotent also he knew of course the our Saviour was in his mind just like he knew Lucifer was going to betray him. Last point
at the end of Gods word he is going to hand over everything to his father and our Father not to himself, also Jesus Christ
currently sits at Gods right hand. My point is I see both viewpoints but I don't judge because its not my job.
also God created the sperm to impregnate mary for natural developement therefore He i8s and always will be thye only
begotten of the Father. We are his children spiritually when born again.
Jesus acknowledges that his Father is his God, and Jesus also claims that he is God - like his Father.
Some see a contradiction in these two truths, and so they usually deny one, or the other of them. It has always been a challenge for some to understand this relationship of the Godhead/Trinity in human terms.
In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Jesus tells Apostle John in "no uncertain terms" that he is God.
Revelation 1:8
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 1:11
"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."
Revelation 1:17
"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"
Revelation 1:18
"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
Revelation 22:13
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
GBU
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live
2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.