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Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 199364
If Eve is the Mother of all, how is God the Father of all? I get that God is the father of all but shouldn't Adam be the father he was Eve's husband after all and the first man alive.
First Family of God and The plan of God - In Reply - 2 years ago
If you read Genesis very slowly, underline the words: created, formed, made, moulded__you will understand better how God created; what he used. Eve was taken out of Adam, to be close to his heart.
God performed the first marriage after Adam and Eve's creation. First man and woman and First marriage.
They were both told NOT to eat of the Two Trees God forbid them to eat of. They did. All peoples on earth descended through them. Jesus's bloodline came through their child, Seth.
It is interesting and revealing to read the genealogy of Jesus. Throughout time, God directed the bloodline of Jesus. Then in Matthew, Mary agrees to become the mother of Jesus. He sets aside his deity to become a human child. Why? Because EARTH was created for humans ONLY.
Jesus came to Take Back authority that Satan stole from Adam. The grief God would suffer was demonstrated when Abraham raised his sword to slay his own son, Isaac.
On the DAY Jesus hung on the Cross between Heaven and Earth, and died for the sins of All Mankind; the Father had to turn His head. Jesus died. He secured SALVATION for those who would accept it. It is a gift to all who will receive it and live it. What did He give us? He took away authority from Satan_and gave it to believers in Jesus for the gift of salvation.
We become Jesus's Body on earth NOW. Our hands to bless, our feet to carry the Good News to people that salvation is available. We have to confess our sins and receive the gift of salvation. Paid for with Jesus's Blood; poured out on the Cross. Revealed to the World when He was resurrected from the grave. Seen by hundreds of people in Jerusalem; and his disciples.
On Pentecost (50 days later), he sent the Holy Spirit to baptize disciples and believers in the Upper Room.
We have to receive the Holy Spirit too. ( John 3)
Read of what the Holy Spirit enables us to do, in the Name of Jesus.
Jesus said to all, "Follow Me."
Let your prayer life grow big on what Jesus taught.
...continued. We can easily think of the distinction between God and man is within a degree that we can comprehend, thinking humans are but a little lower that Go, but Scripture says that we are a little lower than the angels. The distinction between God and the angels is immense. God is high above all created beings and things. He is pre-eminent and supersedes any created being by an immeasurable degree. So, when we understand this truth about the True God, we can see how Jesus humbled Himself as the divine Son of God by taking the limitations of humanity voluntarily onto Himself forever for the singular purpose of saving us from our sinfulness, to reconcile us to God, to become righteous before God, to have eternal life added to us, to be made incorruptible in the resurrection, and to abide with God forever.
This condescension was truly remarkable and mind boggling. But in the wisdom and omniscience of God, this was what was necessary to bring mankind back from the fall of humanity into sin through Adam to become what God all along has chosen us to be forever. God never wanted us to be forever as Adam was before the fall. He designed us, the world, and history for the purpose of re-creating us in Christ Jesus. how wonderful is that!
Mishael, I know you are very solid in your theology. I just wished to clarify this topic a bit further. If Jesus, indeed, set aside His deity at the moment of His conception in Mary, then He was not fully God, but only human, and though sinless in all ways, as only a human, He could only merit salvation for Himself by His perfect fulfillment of the Law. But as one who truly is (and has been since His conception in Mary) fully God and fully human He is able to save all mankind. Therefore, as a human, He takes the penalty God rightly brings to humanity for all of our sins, but as God He is able to thoroughly expiate the sins of all humanity, triumphing over the power of sin and death in humanity by His sacrificial death.
Thank you for the reply. I am glad to hear that you are remembering your sister with fond memories. I miss my Mom. When it was too hot for days and days, she would complain and hope it would rain. When it rained for weeks on end, she would complain and hope the rain would stop. I smile at that. It has been hot, hot, hot for the past few weeks. I imagine she would be hoping for rain if she were still here. I would call her every Sunday and Wednesday night to check in. I think about that when these days roll around.
I will pray for your brother, Chris. May he soon turn His life over to our Lord at the prompting of the Holy Spirit. We trust that He knows exactly what to do to bring your brother to Himself.
Sorry to intervene to your discussion with Mishael, but maybe I can help.
The greek text actually says "emptied Himself" (greek "eauton ekenose") where the english text says "made Himself of no reputation". Also instead of "robbery" it says "grabbing" ("Harpagen", in greek it is the same word used also for caught up/rapture) and instead of "servant" it says "slave" ( grk "doulos")
Well, emptied Himself of what? His deity/His divine nature? Impossible. His glory, His divine power? Yes, Jesus left aside His glory and His power. Why? Couldn't He keep those? No He couldn't. Why not?
Jesus had to be like us, like a normal man, in order to have the right to represent mankind on the cross. Had He been something different than that, He wouldn't have such a right. So He never used His power. He could have actually ordered His human body not to get tired, not to need sleep, not to feel pain on the cross, even not to die if He didn't wanted to, but in such a case He wouldn't be like me and you, He would have been something different than us. So as an ordinary man He asked Father God to make all the miracles, all the healings. The Holly Spirit gave Him all the teaching. He suffered, He got tired, He felt pain, He cried, He felt hungry and thirsty, ... anything that goes through man's life. He did nothing on His own, it was always Father God and The Holy Spirit who did all the works. This is where, I think, some people get confused. They read all that scripture that present Jesus as human, as a man who always asked Father to do something, as a man who prays to Father, and can not understand why all these if He is God Himself. The anwer always is that He came down here on earth not as God (that He is) but as an ordinary man in order to take the position of every single man who lived throughout the human history and pay the penalty for our sins on the cross, so that we now have the right to become God's children.
The belief that Jesus is the Second Person of the Godhead/Trinity who was born as a man, and thus having two natures both human and divine in one person is ancient. This belief (together with the Triune nature of God) has always been a cornerstone of the christian theology. There are literally hundreds of writtings of the early church christians of the first 3 centuaries AD(and afterwards), starting from the disciples of the apostles or believers who got to meet and hear them or lived a liitle bit later than them, that analyze this belief. In christianity this belief is called a Dogma (a cornerstone doctrine).
At the same time there have been many attempts from others to diminish Jesus as either only a man or another God's creature (see eg Arianism) or even an angel. There have also been attempts to present Jesus as only God (eg Monophysitism), because to some the idea of a God becoming a man seemed unbelievable. Others claimed that Jesus had 2 natures in 2 separate persons (Nestorianism), also there have been tenths of other different beliefs. Some of those beliefs initiated from an attempt to explain God's nature logically, But in Christ we walk by faith, this means we have to take some things as they are written, and not try to understand how God really is, we cann't.
Well, those efforts never succeeded. The ancient church made a huge struggle against all those so that the truth remains to us until nowadays. But still there are people/churches, now and then, who try to ressurrect those beliefs. And the funny thing is that those attempts are not coming from denominations like say the R/Catholics or other similar denominations but from reborn christians. It is unfortunate that the no. of various beliefs in the reborn christian's region exceeds the no. of all the rest denominations when added together. We, christians may as well apart from the Bible have a look in the history of Christianity and see what we have been through the centuaries.GBU
No not always catholics made it up . Apostles didn't believe it catholics brought it in after all witnesses who saw and heard Jesus were dead . We make big mistake believing same things as catholics do . Roman catholics are the whore of babylon their doctrines are poison to true Christians . Devil is sneaky tells a little truth with many lies he did that to Eve and does it to us beware ! I dont go by what lots of people believe lots of people don't think or read for themselves . Not to offend you sorry .
Good Afternoon, Mishael. I hope you are doing well today.
I love reading your posts. You have such a simple and clear way of sharing your thoughts.
I have often read what you say about Jesus that He set aside His deity to become human. I think you are referring to Philippians 2:5-8 were Paul says:
"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God; did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death even the death on the cross." (NIV) (I don't know how to cut and paste the KJV, so you can refer to that if you wish.
This verse does not say that Jesus set aside His deity from His human person, nor that He emptied Himself of His deity as Jesus. It says He humbled Himself. I believe this verse refers to John 17:5 where Jesus said, "And now Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was." (NIV)
With these two passages in mind, my viewpoint is that Jesus did humble Himself by divesting Himself of this glory (outward manifestation of the essence of the Godhead) when He became a human being, but He did not change His essential nature from God into a human, as God cannot change Who He essentially is. But He did leave His glory He had with the Father from all of eternity past to take onto Himself a human nature, body, soul, mind, spirit, to become Jesus. He remained 100% God with the addition of 100% human nature to become forever the God-Man Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, Savior, Mediator, and King forever.
Taking on humanity to His divinity was what humbled the Son of God. We are so familiar with Jesus being "God with us" , one of us as to His humanity, that it is easy to forget that the Godhead possesses a transcendency that is beyond our humanity in granduer, majesty, power.
I believe the majority on this site are genuinely writing what they perceive what the Holy Spirit and Scriptures are conveying. Nevertheless, sometimes something may seem illogical. In such cases, my lack of understanding certainly does not make something false. Thus, I need to ask questions for clarity sake.
My question: Is God actually the Source of His own suffering of grief? Based on the story of Abraham and Isaac, your conclusion might be true, which is a bit confounding and concerning to me. Is it possible that God can suffer in His Kingdom in which nothing but light and holiness abide? Can anything enter to infiltrate and pollute the peace of God which passes understanding? Is there anything that can literally usurp His Love; His omnipotence? Can fear inhabit the Mind of God in the form of wrath even though perfect love casts fear out. Love-fear/hate, light-darkness, innocence-guilt, life-death, peace-war, forgiveness-wrath, and so on. Can these opposing attributes coexist in God's Mind (Kingdom)? If so, it is reasonable to question; Can God be the opposite of Himself? If God is capable of what opposes Love, I would have to give in to the logic Satan is capable of what opposes fear. I can"t swallow that. It has become clear in my mind, in my opinion, that there is no compromise between opposites, and the truth of one thing must always make the falsity of its opposite perfectly clear. If Love is real, its opposite must be false (not reality). Consideration should be given that God's mind is purely non dualistic, unlike our minds which put our faith in opposites and every degree in between , which will ultimately consciously or subconsciously cause confusion. Faith in opposites should be considered as listening to 2 opposing voices; serving 2 masters. I think most here would agree, God (Love) is everything. Nothing and everything cannot coexist. Thus its imperative to understand all God is. Everything else is NOTHING!
I think that we operate in opposites, as you stated, but God does not have any conflict within Himself with opposites. He is truly just, which involves His hatred of sin and wrath that brings justice for sin. He is truly loving, thus His eternal plan to bring salvation through His Son. He is truly merciful, thus He shows it to those He created (with the exception of the devil and his evil angels). He is truly all-powerful and completely sovereign, yet He determined that His creatures (humans and spiritual beings) will have the freedom to choose to go against Him. We could go on and on with things that would seem opposites to us, but in God, they are in harmony in His nature. God is far greater that we can ever imagine and His innate abilities allow Him to utilize all of His attributes perfectly, without conflict or change in His Being.
God truly is far beyond my evaluation, yet to understand Him is to understand my existence.Therefore these issues are of genuine importance to me.
Ok, I don't want to misquote you, yet it appears you've indicated clearly that God is hateful, then immediately followed up with God is truly loving. I'm very simple minded, so I don't understand this. Does not seem reasonable.
Respectfully, I strongly propose that by definition opposites are conflicting. I don't think that can be changed by us, nor for us and for God's benefit. Yes, God does not have conflict within; yet believing conflict can even penetrate the Mind of God would be to attempt to bring Him down to our own level of thinking, which by the way can be very convenient for us, as then we can justify our own wrath and attacks. The Mind of God is pure and cannot be polluted by conflict (salt water). He only knows what He is, and His Creation. What God did not create can only be in my own delusional mind, apart from His. God is Love and Love creates Itself and nothing but Itself.
God is the spiritual father of all & he created man (Adam & Eve) in His image meaning they are our Earthly first father & mother because they were the first ones to be created .
No Adam was not the first man alive,,, This is when God made man, it's called the 6th day creation, Adam was created on the 8th, or formed I should say.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, "Let Us make mankind in the likeness of Our image:
God performed the first marriage after Adam and Eve's creation. First man and woman and First marriage.
They were both told NOT to eat of the Two Trees God forbid them to eat of. They did. All peoples on earth descended through them. Jesus's bloodline came through their child, Seth.
It is interesting and revealing to read the genealogy of Jesus. Throughout time, God directed the bloodline of Jesus. Then in Matthew, Mary agrees to become the mother of Jesus. He sets aside his deity to become a human child. Why? Because EARTH was created for humans ONLY.
Jesus came to Take Back authority that Satan stole from Adam. The grief God would suffer was demonstrated when Abraham raised his sword to slay his own son, Isaac.
On the DAY Jesus hung on the Cross between Heaven and Earth, and died for the sins of All Mankind; the Father had to turn His head. Jesus died. He secured SALVATION for those who would accept it. It is a gift to all who will receive it and live it. What did He give us? He took away authority from Satan_and gave it to believers in Jesus for the gift of salvation.
We become Jesus's Body on earth NOW. Our hands to bless, our feet to carry the Good News to people that salvation is available. We have to confess our sins and receive the gift of salvation. Paid for with Jesus's Blood; poured out on the Cross. Revealed to the World when He was resurrected from the grave. Seen by hundreds of people in Jerusalem; and his disciples.
On Pentecost (50 days later), he sent the Holy Spirit to baptize disciples and believers in the Upper Room.
We have to receive the Holy Spirit too. ( John 3)
Read of what the Holy Spirit enables us to do, in the Name of Jesus.
Jesus said to all, "Follow Me."
Let your prayer life grow big on what Jesus taught.
...continued. We can easily think of the distinction between God and man is within a degree that we can comprehend, thinking humans are but a little lower that Go, but Scripture says that we are a little lower than the angels. The distinction between God and the angels is immense. God is high above all created beings and things. He is pre-eminent and supersedes any created being by an immeasurable degree. So, when we understand this truth about the True God, we can see how Jesus humbled Himself as the divine Son of God by taking the limitations of humanity voluntarily onto Himself forever for the singular purpose of saving us from our sinfulness, to reconcile us to God, to become righteous before God, to have eternal life added to us, to be made incorruptible in the resurrection, and to abide with God forever.
This condescension was truly remarkable and mind boggling. But in the wisdom and omniscience of God, this was what was necessary to bring mankind back from the fall of humanity into sin through Adam to become what God all along has chosen us to be forever. God never wanted us to be forever as Adam was before the fall. He designed us, the world, and history for the purpose of re-creating us in Christ Jesus. how wonderful is that!
Mishael, I know you are very solid in your theology. I just wished to clarify this topic a bit further. If Jesus, indeed, set aside His deity at the moment of His conception in Mary, then He was not fully God, but only human, and though sinless in all ways, as only a human, He could only merit salvation for Himself by His perfect fulfillment of the Law. But as one who truly is (and has been since His conception in Mary) fully God and fully human He is able to save all mankind. Therefore, as a human, He takes the penalty God rightly brings to humanity for all of our sins, but as God He is able to thoroughly expiate the sins of all humanity, triumphing over the power of sin and death in humanity by His sacrificial death.
[Comment Removed]
Thank you for the reply. I am glad to hear that you are remembering your sister with fond memories. I miss my Mom. When it was too hot for days and days, she would complain and hope it would rain. When it rained for weeks on end, she would complain and hope the rain would stop. I smile at that. It has been hot, hot, hot for the past few weeks. I imagine she would be hoping for rain if she were still here. I would call her every Sunday and Wednesday night to check in. I think about that when these days roll around.
I will pray for your brother, Chris. May he soon turn His life over to our Lord at the prompting of the Holy Spirit. We trust that He knows exactly what to do to bring your brother to Himself.
Sorry to intervene to your discussion with Mishael, but maybe I can help.
The greek text actually says "emptied Himself" (greek "eauton ekenose") where the english text says "made Himself of no reputation". Also instead of "robbery" it says "grabbing" ("Harpagen", in greek it is the same word used also for caught up/rapture) and instead of "servant" it says "slave" ( grk "doulos")
Well, emptied Himself of what? His deity/His divine nature? Impossible. His glory, His divine power? Yes, Jesus left aside His glory and His power. Why? Couldn't He keep those? No He couldn't. Why not?
Jesus had to be like us, like a normal man, in order to have the right to represent mankind on the cross. Had He been something different than that, He wouldn't have such a right. So He never used His power. He could have actually ordered His human body not to get tired, not to need sleep, not to feel pain on the cross, even not to die if He didn't wanted to, but in such a case He wouldn't be like me and you, He would have been something different than us. So as an ordinary man He asked Father God to make all the miracles, all the healings. The Holly Spirit gave Him all the teaching. He suffered, He got tired, He felt pain, He cried, He felt hungry and thirsty, ... anything that goes through man's life. He did nothing on His own, it was always Father God and The Holy Spirit who did all the works. This is where, I think, some people get confused. They read all that scripture that present Jesus as human, as a man who always asked Father to do something, as a man who prays to Father, and can not understand why all these if He is God Himself. The anwer always is that He came down here on earth not as God (that He is) but as an ordinary man in order to take the position of every single man who lived throughout the human history and pay the penalty for our sins on the cross, so that we now have the right to become God's children.
Just an opinion, I hope it makes sence. GBU
The belief that Jesus is the Second Person of the Godhead/Trinity who was born as a man, and thus having two natures both human and divine in one person is ancient. This belief (together with the Triune nature of God) has always been a cornerstone of the christian theology. There are literally hundreds of writtings of the early church christians of the first 3 centuaries AD(and afterwards), starting from the disciples of the apostles or believers who got to meet and hear them or lived a liitle bit later than them, that analyze this belief. In christianity this belief is called a Dogma (a cornerstone doctrine).
At the same time there have been many attempts from others to diminish Jesus as either only a man or another God's creature (see eg Arianism) or even an angel. There have also been attempts to present Jesus as only God (eg Monophysitism), because to some the idea of a God becoming a man seemed unbelievable. Others claimed that Jesus had 2 natures in 2 separate persons (Nestorianism), also there have been tenths of other different beliefs. Some of those beliefs initiated from an attempt to explain God's nature logically, But in Christ we walk by faith, this means we have to take some things as they are written, and not try to understand how God really is, we cann't.
Well, those efforts never succeeded. The ancient church made a huge struggle against all those so that the truth remains to us until nowadays. But still there are people/churches, now and then, who try to ressurrect those beliefs. And the funny thing is that those attempts are not coming from denominations like say the R/Catholics or other similar denominations but from reborn christians. It is unfortunate that the no. of various beliefs in the reborn christian's region exceeds the no. of all the rest denominations when added together. We, christians may as well apart from the Bible have a look in the history of Christianity and see what we have been through the centuaries.GBU
Christ was just the body of his Father.
We are just the body of Christ.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God who worketh IN YOU (his body) both TO WILL and TO Do his good pleasure.
Pray in this manner: THY WILL BE DONE.
Till we all come into the unity of TRUTH.
God Bless YOU, his body.
I love reading your posts. You have such a simple and clear way of sharing your thoughts.
I have often read what you say about Jesus that He set aside His deity to become human. I think you are referring to Philippians 2:5-8 were Paul says:
"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God; did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death even the death on the cross." (NIV) (I don't know how to cut and paste the KJV, so you can refer to that if you wish.
This verse does not say that Jesus set aside His deity from His human person, nor that He emptied Himself of His deity as Jesus. It says He humbled Himself. I believe this verse refers to John 17:5 where Jesus said, "And now Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was." (NIV)
With these two passages in mind, my viewpoint is that Jesus did humble Himself by divesting Himself of this glory (outward manifestation of the essence of the Godhead) when He became a human being, but He did not change His essential nature from God into a human, as God cannot change Who He essentially is. But He did leave His glory He had with the Father from all of eternity past to take onto Himself a human nature, body, soul, mind, spirit, to become Jesus. He remained 100% God with the addition of 100% human nature to become forever the God-Man Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, Savior, Mediator, and King forever.
Taking on humanity to His divinity was what humbled the Son of God. We are so familiar with Jesus being "God with us" , one of us as to His humanity, that it is easy to forget that the Godhead possesses a transcendency that is beyond our humanity in granduer, majesty, power.
I believe the majority on this site are genuinely writing what they perceive what the Holy Spirit and Scriptures are conveying. Nevertheless, sometimes something may seem illogical. In such cases, my lack of understanding certainly does not make something false. Thus, I need to ask questions for clarity sake.
My question: Is God actually the Source of His own suffering of grief? Based on the story of Abraham and Isaac, your conclusion might be true, which is a bit confounding and concerning to me. Is it possible that God can suffer in His Kingdom in which nothing but light and holiness abide? Can anything enter to infiltrate and pollute the peace of God which passes understanding? Is there anything that can literally usurp His Love; His omnipotence? Can fear inhabit the Mind of God in the form of wrath even though perfect love casts fear out. Love-fear/hate, light-darkness, innocence-guilt, life-death, peace-war, forgiveness-wrath, and so on. Can these opposing attributes coexist in God's Mind (Kingdom)? If so, it is reasonable to question; Can God be the opposite of Himself? If God is capable of what opposes Love, I would have to give in to the logic Satan is capable of what opposes fear. I can"t swallow that. It has become clear in my mind, in my opinion, that there is no compromise between opposites, and the truth of one thing must always make the falsity of its opposite perfectly clear. If Love is real, its opposite must be false (not reality). Consideration should be given that God's mind is purely non dualistic, unlike our minds which put our faith in opposites and every degree in between , which will ultimately consciously or subconsciously cause confusion. Faith in opposites should be considered as listening to 2 opposing voices; serving 2 masters. I think most here would agree, God (Love) is everything. Nothing and everything cannot coexist. Thus its imperative to understand all God is. Everything else is NOTHING!
Peace
God Is
[Comment Removed]
I think that we operate in opposites, as you stated, but God does not have any conflict within Himself with opposites. He is truly just, which involves His hatred of sin and wrath that brings justice for sin. He is truly loving, thus His eternal plan to bring salvation through His Son. He is truly merciful, thus He shows it to those He created (with the exception of the devil and his evil angels). He is truly all-powerful and completely sovereign, yet He determined that His creatures (humans and spiritual beings) will have the freedom to choose to go against Him. We could go on and on with things that would seem opposites to us, but in God, they are in harmony in His nature. God is far greater that we can ever imagine and His innate abilities allow Him to utilize all of His attributes perfectly, without conflict or change in His Being.
God truly is far beyond my evaluation, yet to understand Him is to understand my existence.Therefore these issues are of genuine importance to me.
Ok, I don't want to misquote you, yet it appears you've indicated clearly that God is hateful, then immediately followed up with God is truly loving. I'm very simple minded, so I don't understand this. Does not seem reasonable.
Respectfully, I strongly propose that by definition opposites are conflicting. I don't think that can be changed by us, nor for us and for God's benefit. Yes, God does not have conflict within; yet believing conflict can even penetrate the Mind of God would be to attempt to bring Him down to our own level of thinking, which by the way can be very convenient for us, as then we can justify our own wrath and attacks. The Mind of God is pure and cannot be polluted by conflict (salt water). He only knows what He is, and His Creation. What God did not create can only be in my own delusional mind, apart from His. God is Love and Love creates Itself and nothing but Itself.
Peace
God Is
Genesis 1:26 And God said, "Let Us make mankind in the likeness of Our image:
the mother of all who should live after her.
All who should live after her because Through her womb came the Christ, and if you're not in Christ you're dead, spiritually.
it's an eternal life living thing.
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