Bible Discussion Thread

It is noteworthy that the first church of Ephesus; which also was the only church that had an Epistle written about it was the only one that was threatened to have "its candlestick removed"(verse 5) since they ha LEFT their first love. ALL other things were done correctly; and some things even commendable still. There are two conclusions to be made here. First; that having Agape love toward God and no doubt the brethren is always a top priority and command and renders a church useless more than any other transgressions; provided a remnant of faithful people still exist. The second conclusion is that the later churches could signify either going into the seven year Tribulation itself (for those not walking right with God or not true believers such as in 3:22); or as in the case of Smyrna; a major test or tribulation before that (verse 10). It appears that in some of these other churches that persecution was able to test their faith and endurance; strengthening their growth. Such an option didn't appear as a remedy for the Ephesians; perhaps because they would act like those Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 13:3. We need to take pause here that we don't make any work; even in obeying His will somehow separate from our love of God; or first love (verse 4). Again; the exhortation in verse 7 is much like the other addresses to churches; there is an individual call (whoever overcomes); as individual remnant believers of the visible church are truly of the invisible church; and there is some idea here that we may be called away from corporate fellowship if indeed serious issues develop which dissolve or destroy a church.

For one reason or another ALL of these original churches in Asia Minor (Turkey area) are long gone there; although their story as all scripture is applicable to us today.

Hi Richard

I hope you don't get offended by my regular interventions in your posts. My aim is not to argue but to give a slight different view to some points

In Rev 2-3 Jesus is not addressed generally to the people of those churches but specifically to the angels (the pastors) of them. The pastors are the ones who are held responsible for the spiritual condition of the church they serve. So Jesus gives warnings to them about doing their ministry properly or not

Jesus says to the pastor of Ephesus that he has fallen from his first love. Love to whom? The obvious answer is to God. But 1 John 4:20-21 says "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also"

So a pastor that has not so much love for God, then he has not so much love for the members of the church he serves either. And how is that shown outwardly? By his works. He has non. And what love is? A fruit of the Holly Spirit. And if we lack in love it means that we have come to a stop in our spiritual life and we actually go backwards

So Jesus warns that pastor that He will remove his candlestick, that is Jesus is going to take away that church from that pastor. (And then what? He will give it to somebody else who is going to serve the sheep properly)

And that is a warning to all pastors. They are held responsible for the condition of their flock of sheep given to them by Jesus. Are they going to be like the good shepherd that Jesus is or not? Do they work the 10,5,1 talent given to them?

Will they be like Saul the first king or like David? It is the same with all the other pastors in those 7 churches

Rev 3:3 " Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee"

GBU