Bible Discussion Thread

Matthew 11:12 --- Violence in heaven puzzles me. We think of it as peaceful perfection.

Hiya Patricia...Gbu ...But not only is there violence in Heaven but John saw war in heaven...Meaning in the spirit... Rev 12 :10...The H.G. is the Kingdom ...Remember soon as Jesus was born the devil was trying to kill him...And in Rev 12 the dragon satan is trying to kill the Manchild...Which is the H.G. a baby Christ ...Thats y Jesus tells us there is gonna be kingdom against Kingdom...Nation against Nation...The Kingdom of God is not in meat or drink but in joy and peace in the H.G....Thats y satan wants to sow a tare in us to destroy the wheat....And the wheat is the H.G. A baby Christ....Simply b/c the sower of that good seed is Christ the Bridegroom...Thus the wheat is a Baby Christ...And satan is the father of the tares....When Jesus said that which is born of the SPIRIT IS SPIRIT thats the H.G. a Baby Christ...An Israel of God...A new nation of Israel via the seed of Christ Thus an Israel that cannot sin...As him that is born of God cannot sin.

.....Thats y Jesus is telling us Unless ya receive the Kingdom as lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...Thats y the New birth is so important....But Satan is not gonna let this happen thus he sows a tare in us to destroy the Wheat...In Rev 12 the dragon tries to destroy the WOMAN and her Child the H.G The kingdom in us...in Humanity...The field is the world where that good seed will be sown....

......But Jesus said where the Body is there will the eagles be gathered together....Jesus said that he wd send the reapers to gather the tares and burn them....The reapers are the eagles that are gonna devour the tares from our Bodies...As our God is a consuming fire that is gona consume satan and his tares..Our bodies are the tabernacle of the H.G. the wheat...The tares are gona be destroyed from our bodies....But we see a great war coming in the spirit....Kingdom against Kingdom

.....She brought forth Manchild that is gona rule all nations....And there was war in heaven Michael and his angels fought....ok

.....

Verily I/Jesus say unto you, Among them that are brought forth by woman there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: But from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the forceful ones lay hold of it.

This is speaking about the they who try and take the Kingdom by force,,, taken by force or attempts to, is a violent act...(it's not passive) "If any one forces himself in, his offering was not acceptable."Those who fulfilled the conditions had the Father's good wishes.

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

And if ye are willing to receive it, he/John represents Elijah/The Spirit Of, which is about to come. Praise God

I believe the kingdom of heaven in this instance refers to the land of Israel and the people living in it at that time who were under Roman occupation .

Hi Patricia. On the surface Matthew 11:12 can seem confusing until we understand its context & noting, that "kingdom of Heaven" doesn't denote Heaven itself, but the events & people that were revealing it.

So, when we look at the chapter, Jesus was speaking about John the Baptist (vv 1-11). Before John's coming & ministry, the status quo remained (i.e. the Jewish people did their thing, the non-Jews were segregated & looked down upon, & the religious leaders had full sway over the domestic & religious lives of the people) - all was peaceful, except of course that they were governed by Rome.

But when John the Baptist appeared & began baptizing for repentance, he caused a stir amongst the religious leaders & the people who began listening to John, & many were being baptized. And then Jesus came on the scene and you know the stir that He caused by His Teaching & Miracles. So, I understand Matthew 11:12, as revealing what was taking place among the Jews since the coming of John (& Jesus): an increasing shift by many towards this new thing being said & done, which in most cases, opposed the teachings & commands of the religious leaders.

The "kingdom of heaven suffereth violence" (not in Heaven itself, but people now pressing against it when once before they were ignorant to such Truths) - "and the violent take it by force" (speaking of those, maybe only a few, convinced of what they were seeing & now leaving behind pharisaical laws & burdens, & grabbing onto the true teachings of the Kingdom). This was a momentous time in the presentation of the Son of God & the soon-to-be irrelevance of the Law & religious trappings - that at the Cross, people could have a heart change, a new Spirit infill us, & an High Priest who could identify with us & give us His Peace & Comfort, which could never be achieved under the Old Covenant.