Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

Hi Paul,

I agree that some perceive these as conflicting verses, but just because some assume something is contradictory does not make it so.

Why can't both verses be true?

Ephesians 2:8-9 is true that we are saved by grace alone through faith and James 2:17 is also true that faith without works is dead. Why exactly can't these both be true? The entire chapter of James 2 already explains this. For instance James 2:18 "...shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." Isn't it possible that faith and belief is like an overall umbrella and the fruit are good deeds and works that can flow through as a result of genuine faith? And if no works, then it would be like the parable of the sower in Luke 8. The scriptures do not contradict each other.

Romans 2 also explains this. Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

People seem to like to cherry pick and pluck out only Ephesians 2:8-9 and ignore James 2:17. Or, some may pluck out only James 2:17 and ignore Ephesians 2:8-9. But the reality is it is both. Both are God's word and both are true. All of the scriptures must be taken cohesively in context.

I believe this can happen with other topics too. For instance, yes, someone can just read John 3:16, and conclude that only "believing" is all someone needs. While true, it's assumed it's genuine belief is active and would also include Acts 2:38, which introduces more actions such as repenting, and being baptized. These are not contradictions as some may assume. They instead compliment each other and are both true. People can get a simple understanding with light reading of broad statements and a deeper understanding by deeper study. I think this is by design. Some believe the Bible is a living Word of God and that the more we read that God can supernaturally reveal more and more insights that we didn't notice the first time.

Hi Adam

You asked,

Why can't both verses be true?

I do believe both verses are true.

I appreciate very much your input.

I am struggling to understand,

Are you saying we are saved by both works and grace?

I did say I do believe we are saved by both.

But as far as Bible contradictions, they do exist.

And to say Paul and James contradict would not be an issue.

The Bible contradicts itself quite often.

It is not uncommon.

Nevertheless, it does not shake my faith in the Bible.

For example,

Matthew records Christ came through David's son Solomon ( Matthew 1:6)

But Luke records Christ came through David's son Nathan ( Luke 3:31)

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. ( 2 Samuel 24:1)

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. ( 1 Chronicles 21:1)

Who provoked David, God or Satan?

Is Judah or Dan are a lion's whelp?

And of Dan he said, Dan is a lion's whelp: he shall leap from Bashan. ( Deuteronomy 33:22)

Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? ( Genesis 49:9)

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. ( Exodus 32:14)

And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. ( 1 Samuel 15:9)

Hi Paul,

Thanks for listing the verses of your perceived contradictions. You're making a giant claim by claiming "The Bible contradicts itself quite often." Have you actually done a deep study into each of your claims to determine if other explanations exist that you haven't yet considered or is this just a snap judgment? Just because you assume they're contradictions doesn't mean they are and doesn't seem to justify trying to discredit the Bible on a Bible site. If you would like we can address each of these one at a time. In reality you could also just take a few seconds to Google search it and find logical explanations for each of these points from sites like got questions, carm, etc but still, I'm happy to have a dialog.

For now I'll just point out that your first difficulty with geneologies, the geneology of Matthew may be through Joseph and geneology of Luke may be through Mary. Can you see how that would result in a different geneology? Another view is that Matthew is a biological geneology and Luke recorded a legal geneology through levirate marriage. Deuteronomy 25:5. Another possibility is that Joseph had two fathers. Can you see how now in just a short paragraph that either of these could easily explain what you assumed was a contradiction. Because the Bible was meticulously recorded, inspired by God, and is the truth, isn't it more likely that in each of these there is a logical explanation you haven't yet thought of, rather your assumptions being true?

Paul. All truth that you seek are in scripture the bible John 5:39 the main

subject of the scripture is the gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ. So if

You seek the truth there is no other book on earth that has spiritually the

Truth.

Henry

Do you believe what the Bible says about there being lost/missing Scripture?

The book of Nathan the prophet, the book of Gad the seer. ( 1 Chronicles 29:29)

The epistle from Laodicea ( Colossians 4:16)

And of the things which Jesus did, John said if they should be written every one, I suppose even the world could not contain the books that should be written. ( John 21:25)

Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon, ( Numbers 21:14)

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. ( Joshua 10:13)

And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon? ( 1 Kings 11:41)

Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat? ( 2 Chronicles 9:29)

Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And there were wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually. ( 2 Chronicles 12:15)

If there is lost/missing Scripture, than there must be more knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ on this planet.

I believe the Bible and the Book of Mormon because the doctrines therein are the same, nothing waving.

Otherwise, I would not believe the Book of Mormon.

The Bible is my main source for truth.

I there are other writings claiming to be of the God of Israel, I will certainly take that into consideration and compare the doctrines to what the Bible says and if there is a contradiction, I will know the doctrines are not of the God of Israel.

I can find no contradictions.

Paul. Sir all and I emphasize all accurate knowledge of the true God and

Jesus Christ and Salvation and creation is in the bible there is nothing to add to

Or take from it alone is the source of all that is needed , 2 Peter 1:1-10 it is the

Knowledge of God. P.S. Mormons believe their bloodline is pure impossible

All became sinful in Genesis after the downfall. Also supposedly an angel

Showed a man books of Mormon the problem with that Galatians 1:6-12.

Food for thought.

Henry

You said,

P.S. Mormons believe their bloodline is pure impossible.

I'm not sure what you mean by this I've not heard Mormons believe their bloodline is pure.

Thank you for your comment.

Paul. A Mormon will not get a blood transfusion because they believe they

Will get the impurities in there system. The reason I know this is a friend is a Mormon. Also they predicted Christ return twice didn't happen because God's

Word days No man knows and trust me If someone tells me God told them

Something special I,'d seriously question the source!