Bible Discussion Thread

I wanted to know if there no sin r confusion in Heaven , why was the satan & his angels kick out of heaven

go revelation12:7-12

Michelle

Each verse In Rev 12 jumps great lengths of time e.g verse 4 is past history as in (already happened), and then it jumps to the future in verse 7 whereas future still; The war in Heaven between Michael, The Dragon, and his Angels is yet to come, and (This) is when they are KICKED OUT of Heaven,,, actually they are Cast Down.

In Chapter 12, Each verse that begins with the Word (And) in succession are different clauses where they are repetitions of conjunctions in close succession for rhetorical effect, as in the phrase here and there and everywhere.

Continued

God cleans house on earth and uses angels after that for Satan's binding; although it isn't clear who casts him into the lake of fire.

Thus; in the end heaven and earth are cleaned of rebels.

I suppose we could apply the verse "judgment begins in the house of God" to this event. ( 1 Peter 4:17). Since Satan is cast out in the battle of Rev. 12:4 along with his ANGELS; then God is using the principal he does later on separating the wheat from the tares that is not fully realized until the Second coming ( Matt. 13:29). In real time; transgression comes to the full before; for instance whole NATIONS are judged. ( Gen. 15:16). God Himself calls and chooses as well as KNOWS who are His own. In that sense God creates good and evil ( Isaiah 45:7). In that context we may substitute the word calamity; such as that Job suffered as an example to test his faithfulness and God allowed Satan's will to cause these torments; but his life had to be spared. In any event; God is not the author of confusion. In due course; the rebellion occured in heaven (probably long before the earth was created or restored in Genesis in my opinion although some use the "gap theory" between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2 to explain that the earth was recreated). It would have taken some time for that many angels to rebel I would think. There would be no need for delaying their punishment as they saw heaven and God and therefore could not plead ignorance. The punishment would have been in stages from what scripture appears to say going from losing place as the "anointed cherub" described as a type of musical worship leader in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28; to be kicked out to ruling over the 2nd heaven; that is the physical universe; particularly focused on the atmosphere of the earth. Certainly at a minimum Satan has authority over the earth and mens minds; it seems from Revelation he may still be able to accuse us before the throne. His control over death keeping all under the earth (even the righteous in the paradise part of sheol); was broken after the death of Christ and Resurrection. Once the Rapture occurs; we are free to praise God unrestrained.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another sign in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And (his) tail draggeth the third part of the stars of heaven, and (he) cast them to the earth: and the dragon is

standing before the woman which was ready to be delivered, in order to devour her child as soon as it was born.

What is the object ? (The dragon)

What did his tail do ? (It dragged 1/3 part of the stars, and cast them to the earth) they were deceived and followed him, it caused them to be (thrown down) not thrown out with him,.,, as when a fishermans net drags the bottom of the lake, dragging the net of fishes

drew = draggeth. See John 21:8

Hey Charlene,

I agree with Adam if the angels did not have free will, there would not be any that disobeyed. Satan is the great accuser and as we see in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 he presented himself along with the sons of God in heaven, and we know Satan had sinned.



My understanding is like Luke, they have not been cast out but will be cast down permanently with no more access to heaven, this has not happened yet, Revelation 12. Then the rise of the beast out of the bottomless pit to whom Satan gives his power, seat, and authority on earth.

There are angels not on the good side that have access to earth, Satan has power on earth limited by God, and devils/demons that scripture does not say how they got here or where they come from. Battles go on we do not see, like in Daniel 10. There is another group of angels different than the ones that have fallen but did not leave their first estate.



Their deeds were far greater, they left their first estate and left their own habitation 2 Peter 2:4 Jude 1:6. These angels are locked up in chains of darkness, the bottomless pit, and have no access to heaven or earth. This is where the beast that many call antichrist will come from Rev. 11, 17, and where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years, Rev. 20:3.

God is light and there is no darkness in Him, and God is not author of confusion. Adam and Eve had sin but after they were cast out of the garden they were still in the presence of God because Cain went out of the presence of the LORD.

God bless,

RLW

Charlene. I apologize. Further explanation Lucifer was God's Highest

Messenger or angel and has a lot of power when he lifted himself up

Against God He became Lucifer and 1/3 of the other angels were thrown

Out of heaven with Him. Remember where there is confusion there is sin

And rebellion. Now he is known as the Devil or Satan or prince of this world

Or God of this world or figuratively serpent dragon ruler of kingdom of Babylon.

Thank God He's been defeated by Jesus Christ for all that believe. He is the

Cause of all man's problems because of unbelief and does anything in his power

To get people either to not believe he exist or to blame the true God for what he

Does.

Hello, sin has the possibility of existing where freewill exists and I haven't seen anywhere in the Bible say that beings in heaven are stripped of their freewill. It would seem that beings indeed do have freewill given that the angel(s) rebelled.

I'm not familiar with any verse saying there's no confusion, if you can please share that verse you have in mind that would be helpful. God bless.

They haven't been kicked out yet! They disobeyed God and left their first estate/HIM and went to and fro unto the earth.

They got locked up, put into chains in darkness meaning prison in Heaven, and have been there ever since, awaiting to be set free THEN they make war with the Angels of GOD and win not, and THEN they are cast to the earth, suppose one could say that this is where they get kicked out.

Luke The messengers or spirits that caused the darkness of Genesis 1:1+2

Have been chained up but there are others with the commander Satan wreaking

Havoc until judgement day. Ephesians 6:12 states what we are up against

Spiritually.

There was a 2nd influx Genesis 6:4 There were Nephilim in the earth in the days of Noah; (after) their destruction by the Flood, as well as (before) it, when the angels came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Luke. With all due respect it doesn't say angels and spirit beings whether of

God Or Satan cannot cohabitate with humans why because spirit is spirit and

Flesh is flesh so there is more to it.

Uh! The (angels)(celestial bodies)came in unto the (daughters) (of men), and they (bare children) to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown, doesn't do it for ya?

Charlene Lucifer was kicked out of heaven along with those that followed

Him and his sin was pride to be like the most High God. Interestingly he at

One time was the bright morning star now Jesus Christ is.