Bible Discussion Thread

Why I believe the KJV is God's chosen translation of divine truth: Psalm 119:89; Psalm 12:6-7; Mark 13:31 openly declare that God by divine fiat ordained the perpetuity of his perfect Word through human history. Just like his ordination of Genesis 9:11 regarding the flood, so is his ordination of his Word of truth. You see, expressions such as truth, perfection, and holiness are in the purest sense equal terms, and are elemental to the very character of the Godhead. Inside God's divine perfection there is a subtle law that says the shortcoming of human depravity cannot possibly be relied upon to postulate a perfect condition which supersedes itself. The notion that imperfection has power to fully decipher perfection is utterly impossible. It would be asking God's omniscience to step aside for imperfection's encryption of truth-a vain attempt which, if pursued, becomes the spiritual violation called pride. Imperfect translators cannot perfectly unravel perfection. Without God's divine ordination, that positional reverse makes such imperfect decryption from behind the Divine curtain tantamount to salvation through the genius of human works. Such reasoning flies in the face of Divine truth. But there's more: Since God ordained his choice for each human generation, he would certainly perpetually identify it. Since humanity at large has a rational intuition toward our Creator, they will naturally identify their translation of choice. For over 400 years they have identified the KJV alone as their top choice. Also, the NKJV is not a new translation (it rather declares itself to be a correction of the KJV), then the KJV and the NKJV combined places the KJV translation far and away humanity's favorite. All other translators might consider renaming their translations as commentaries. If another translator also claims theirs to be God ordained, the question arises as to why God would perfect what he has already made perfect 400 years ago?

Gigi, sorry for the delay; I've been sick, but I'm okay now.

I encourage YOU to do spot-on research, not online, but in your KJV Bible because the solution to your confusion here is certainly not OUTSIDE the Scriptures. On Judgment Day we won't be judged by our online sources, but by the perfect Word of God. What you find there is right by Divine definition. Fallen humanity cannot rely on the graphic Word of God to tell us the truth through a multitude of imperfect translators. Truth itself can't be revised, but only discovered, for God Himself is Truth. If we need OTHER translations today to straighten out the errors in FORMER translations, then the logical conclusion is that God failed to reveal His truth to FORMER generations, which is completely absurd!

Three things you should clarify: 1. It seems new to you that the written Word of God is perfect in itself. 2. You seem to think God needs an array of IMperfect translators to perFECT what His omnipotent power of ordination has already perFECTED. 3. You don't seem to realize that God's choice in the matter of his Word is arbitrary. He doesn't require an army of translators to confirm whether or not his Divine Word is accurate. No, he needs only to ordain himself a TRANSLATION as he sees fit to carry his Perfect Word through the generations. Then, once chosen, he identifies it to fallen humanity. The current translation he is obviously using is the KJV. It has been doing God's bidding for 400 years, and does not appear to be waning in the eyes of humanity. Even the majority of other languages use the KJV as their base of translation.

You have a choice to make: Either God's written perfect Word of Truth moves through the human generations by the arbitrary power of God's ordination, or else imperfect human translators (some of them not even saved!) took it upon themselves to re-translate the Scriptures according to their own calculation of what is right or wrong.

I'll say much more on this if we continue.

Great post , thankyou Don . So many people place such emphasis on what they read on the internet , which in my opinion is THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION . Young people especially don't seem to realise that we all survived quite well without it . We need our Bibles , thats all . I almost never go on the 'net' which is such an apt description of it ! Christians have known the Truth for literally thousands of years , for the most part as far as I'm concerned the internet is part of this world so I keep my usage of it to a very very bare minimum . What God wants me to know He will teach me , through His Word the Bible , His Word made flesh in Christ and through my life experiences . God bless you Don .

Spartacus, thank you so much for your encouraging words. You said in a few words more than I did in several pages!

Your words regarding the Internet remind me of a portion of a booklet I wrote about the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Bringing the idea to the present, I make mention of the modern cellphone (the Internet) as being a modern wonder of human genius by human hands for human awe. But this one supersedes them all because with this one a man can hold the whole world in his hand. "Nevertheless, the smart phone is but a circumlocutory device whose electronics hold humanity's cranial substitute for God's overwhelming truth and reality; that is, the miraculous. Humanity craves its own truth and reality, and so we can figuratively take this device and 'miraculously' swim in Pharaoh's slime pits to help depravity build a Wonder of the World."

Yes, we can have the KJV available to us on the Internet, but there's just something soulful in having the tangible Word of God lying in our arms where we can literally press it to our chest with both arms and say, "Oh, how I dearly love this old black-backed Book." It brought tears to my eyes when my old pastor did that. To all I say, "Try it, you'll like it."

I hope to read some more posts from you Don .

Dear Don,

I just reviewed your post and my reply and I realize I did not address the things you itemized. They are assumptions about me, whom you do not know at all. Your assumptions about me are erroneous, and so I do not think I should spend time speaking to them. It seems profitless for me to do so. I do not need to prove myself to you, nor you to me. We are to accept one another as brethren in the faith with love and courtesy. I do so concerning you. I will say that I have been a believer all of my life, began reading Scripture seriously when I was 9 years old and have been in the Word since then. I am almost 66. So, I have a long history of turning to God's Word in matters of faith and practice. I trust God to lead me in what is true as I have always asked Him to do so with me. Hope this helps you know me a little better. Hopefully, we can discuss other topics on this forum over time.

Gigi,

I originally posted my belief regarding the KJV Word of God. You were and still are the only one to reply to it. You accused me of making assumptions of you. That is an assumption. I merely replied to your words of challenge. My only point is the simple fact that the KJV is the current perfect Word from God to fallen humanity. You declare that no perfect translations exist today, yet you say the original writers of Scripture wrote God's Word perfectly. That conflicting logic fails to see the fact that if God's perfect Word was once Divinely given to imperfect fallen humanity, that it must also be Divinely KEPT by the God who Divinely authored it. If God doesn't Divinely ordain perpetually perfect truth to every generation, then his final judgment cannot be just. So, he arbitrarily ordains his translation of truth, and identifies it to humanity at large. For 400 years humanity has identified the KJV as God's Word of absolute truth. Revisions are not translations. There was a time when children were taught to memorize the KJV. Today we force them to reply, "Which translation, Mommie?"

Your history of serving God is admirable. I too have a history of serving him. I was saved at age 21. I attended a noted accredited Christian college, sat under nationally recognized theologians and professors, sat shoulder to shoulder with men who are now household words, studied Biblical languages, and graduated with high honors with a Bachelor of Arts degree. Lack of financial backing blocked me from my Doctorate, but I spent over 60 years of intensive study equivalent to it. In a few weeks I will turn 89 years old. But let me say to you and all who read this: None of that matters one bit for either of us. The definition of doctrine is simply what one believes, and that belief determines where one will spend eternity. Therefore, one's doctrine had better be right!

Good morning Don, Thank you for your reply.

I do not wish to continue this conversation any further. We both have said our piece on this matter. I think that is sufficient.

Have a good day.

For once we agree!

Adios! :)

Hello Don.

First of all, I do believe that the original writers of the Scripture wrote down God's Word perfectly.

Secondly, I do not think that ANY translation is perfect because Scripture does not say so anywhere.

Thirdly, The Scriptures do not identify the KJV as a perfect nor inspired translation.

Fourthly, I appreciate your input and concern of me.

Fifthly, I do not feel it wise to take YOUR word on this matter as being infallible any more than any other source of information.

Sixthly, I do not think it unwise to use online resources, (as this site is) nor books, nor pastors, nor other believers as places/persons I can receive instruction from when I need more information, nor is it sinful to do so.

In the Seventh place, I do think it is wise to know the Scriptures and to study them. In these Words we have what we need pertaining to salvation, the character of God and mankind, as well as spiritual beings, good and evil. In Scriptures we learn how to come into a loving, dependent relationship with God who made us and all that exists, seen and unseen. We need Him more than we could ever know in this life.

And lastly, I think that we have exchanged enough on this topic here. I bid you goodnight and wish you well. We are both free to have our own viewpoint on this topic. Have a good evening and peaceful rest for the night.

Hello Don,

This is an interesting post. I don't recall reading anywhere in the Bible where the KJV is mentioned as the perfect translation. I think it is fine for some to use it as their preferred choice to translations, but it is also good to remember that in cultures that do not speak English, they have a translation in their own language and it is still effective to bring about the work of salvation through the hearing of the Gospel and the bestowing of grace from the Holy Spirit. The Bible is an instrument God uses to "cut people to the heart" as it happened in Acts 2 when Peter preached the Gospel of repentance and faith towards God through Jesus Christ. It is what the Holy Spirit enlivens by His power to bring about regeneration. Throughout history millions upon millions of people have had this happen to them by the Holy Spirit with translations that are not the KJV. They truly are saved and made a new creation.

We are so blessed to have the Bible in our own language to read and study for ourselves. But for centuries, people heard the Scriptures read or preached to them and God's Word was still effective in its part of bringing people to salvation. '

I guess what I am getting at, is that, because Scripture does not say that the KJV is the only truly perfect translation, I cannot believe that it is. The Scriptures were completed 1500 years before the KJV was translated. So, I use the common sense given me enlightened by the Holy Spirit to not go with this belief. But I do prefer the KJV to other translations, but also have found reading other translations helpful in understanding the archaic English used in the KJV.

If you will carefully follow the simple logic of my post, the truth of what I said will be clear. Nowhere did I say that the KJV is mentioned in the Bible. Please read more carefully. I put a lot of thought in every word and sentence of that post so as to stay within the word limit. Based on the Scripture references I provided, I said in the second sentence, "God by divine fiat ordained the perpetuity of his perfect Word through human history. Note the words ordained, perpetuity, and perfect Word. Virtually all Christian theologians will agree with that sentence. They must; it is the only way God's truth travels through the centuries (perpetually). Please read the Scriptures I cited. Therefore, God himself must ordain not only who graphically records his perfect Word, but also who translates that perfect Word as it travels through the generations. The KJV is only the latest of the many consecutive writings and translations of God's perfect Word, the earliest being God's perfect Word he gave to the ancient Hebrews. But the Scriptures I cited make it crystal clear that he is the only one who decides (ordains) which Word, Manuscript, and author who bears his Divine signature. Through the centuries, when God made a choice in the matter, he always identified it-as he has done with the KJV. Anything else is a commentary, of which some are better than others. I should also say here that the plethora of new translations have come about in the last century, but the KJV just celebrated its 4th century. That should say something of God's choice in the matter. I too refer to other translations from time to time, but only as a commentary, not as a Divinely selected translation. For that I refer to the KJV as the last word.

Hiya Don GBU....But all the bibles in this world cd not redeem not even 1 man back to God....Don at Calvary, God made a new covenant with the blood of Jesus that Lamb of God....But God didn't use not 1 written word....That New COVENANT cd only be dedicated with the Blood of HIS lamb...Christ Jesus...the living Word made flesh and blood...All the bibles in this world can not help with this horrible demonic sin nature of murder and war etc.....Satan is still the god of this present World....I love the bible been reading the bible the KJV sinse i was 4.5 yrs old....But it has to be the living word....The written word is like a faraway lover...But the living WORD is the bridegroom himself and there is no other...We cannot bear fruit with a far away lover....WE can only be married to Christ the living word and bring forth fruit unto God.... Romans 7:4 kjv....I'M not saying the KJV has no value...The KJV can only be a friend of the bridegroom....Neva the bridegroom....We can only be married to Christ Jesus....Not paper and ink...And that fruit unto God is the H.G. THE MANCHILD that is gonna rule all nations...Thats y he has to know us..

......2 nd Cor. 3:6 - 9....Who has made us able ministers of the New Covenant...The New testament in his Blood....Not of the letter the written word for the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth us life....

Remember Moses had to wear a veil over his face b/c it was so glorious b/c of the law was the written word that had to be done away with Just think what its going to be like WHEN THAT BOOK IS OPENED....We are all gona have a Baby Christ....the H.G. that Child of PROMISE....GBU

Alex, thanks for your input. I'm sorry to have to be the one to remind you of this, but when Adam and Eve sinned, death walked in. We, fallen humanity, call the duration between birth and death "time." In order for humanity to function, God had to ORDAIN an essential thing called "writing." No human can talk loud enough to be heard by future generations after one dies. Therefore, God inspired certain humans to record His Divine tangible Words to pass on the history of His actions of body, soul, and Spirit to future generations so they can be aware of a Divine Savior and believe and behave toward God in such a way as to miss a thing called Hell. The idea of dismissing the physical and riding the back of the spiritual misses the truth of the Biblical.

I was born in the backwoods of Oklahoma. We all went barefooted. When folks built a board shack to live in, they had to cut down trees and saplings to build it. You simply didn't know pain unless you tripped over one of those stumps just once. STUMBLING BLOCKS ARE CRIPPLING! When you start running, you're smiling, but when you hit that stump with your big toe, suddenly your mouth turns bottom-side up and you start squalling! Mama comes to the rescue-she soaks your foot in a pan of kerosene, and you hobble around two weeks worth of lost time, grinless. Given time, you can run again because you learned the hard way where all the stumps are. End of lesson.

Hiya Don GBU But we have to remember that Israel was Sola Scriptura....Caring more about the written word then the Holy Spirit THE CONTENTS OF THEIR HEARTS WAS NOT IMPORTANT....Israel stoned almost every Prophet that God sent them and Rejected the Christ...Thats the result of written words of God without the H.G....As 2 Cor. 3:6 tells us..

.....He has made us able ministers of the NEW Testament....The LIVING WORDS OF GOD....Not of the letter that killeth but of the Spirit that giveth Life.....Its The Living words of God that are the good seeds that initiate THAT NEW BIRTH of Christ in us...Not the written words....If the written words cd have brought us salvation then the living Word Christ Jesus shed his blood in vain and the Cross was just foolishness.

.....Mary was not impregnated by written words...But by the living of Word God Almighty made flesh and blood....Search the scriptures ( the written words ) in them you think you have eternal life but it is them that testify of me...The HG. THE LIVING WORD...Jesus said my words are spirit and life and Peter says where shall we go lord thou has the words of eternal.Life...But There is no eternal life in paper and ink....Eternal life is only in his WORDS....As Peter says Which are spirit and life....Gbu Don

Don, I did re-read your post and referenced the Scripture verses you listed. None of these Scriptures verify that the KJV is the perfectly preserved Word of God. I just don't think that you have proved your premise stated in your first sentence.

I encourage you to do some research online concerning this matter and read from sites that do not support your viewpoint. You may find what I have found.

The King James Version completed in 1611 was revised in 1613 and then again and again. If it was perfect the first time, there would be no need to revise. Also, there are some obvious errors, one being where the KJV uses the word Easter, when this word was not used in the original manuscripts, nor was in common usage in the apostolic times.

Also, many of the translations of the past 100 years used manuscripts that were better than the Textus Receptus and date much earlier than the T.R. (which was created many centuries after the original manuscripts were written). This does not necessarily prove or disprove the accuracy of the KJV nor that of other translations. But one who holds to the inerrancy of the KJV and that other translations are inaccurate of somehow corrupted.

I will continue to research on this topic as it is outside of Scripture to solve, since the KJV is not mentioned in the Scriptures anywhere.

Great post thanks .